300Tdi Injectors reconditioning





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  1. #1
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    Default 300Tdi Injectors reconditioning

    Hi all,

    I need some advice please.

    When will be a good time to recondition fuel injectors (on a 300TDI) ? I am thinking in terms of "damage prevention" here. Is there a recommended miileage interval? What could be considered as "best practise" to ensure injector longevity?

    What can I expect to pay for having the injectors reconditioned?

    Cheers.
    BergKwagga

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    I am also interested to find out what the interval and cost should be.
    2006 Defender KE 300 TDi (aka Hari), previously 2003 TD5 90 (aka Steri) and 1994 TDi HiLine 200 TDi (aka Big Blue).
    Afrispoor Serval off-road caravan (aka ORC).

  3. #3
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    same here!


    Current: AMAROK BITDI 4MOTION
    Ex: HILUX D4D 4x4 DC
    EX: Land Rover D3 TDV6 SE
    EX: Land Rover Defender 110 300 Tdi
    EX: Mitsubishi Pajero 4x4 LWB V6 Blister
    ------------------------------------------------------
    Baviaans, Richtersveld, Tankwa Karoo, Kgalagadi, Botswana, Addo, West Coast, Southern Namibia

  4. #4
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    I had my injectors redone last year this time. new tips and pump timing set, just over R3000.00
    300 TDi 90, OME 2" lift, OME steering damper, steering and diff guards, removed front and rear anti roll bar, snorkel, extra fuel tank, roof rack, running on KM2's


  5. #5
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    new set of injectors around R4000 per set.
    i was quoted today to recon a set the same price as a new set of injectors from DE Bosch.
    will just go ahead and get new ones.
    ballpark at 200 000 km it is a good time to swop out.

    Land Rovers never die, they simply become organ donors!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landyluvver View Post
    new set of injectors around R4000 per set.
    i was quoted today to recon a set the same price as a new set of injectors from DE Bosch.
    will just go ahead and get new ones.
    ballpark at 200 000 km it is a good time to swop out.
    ¨
    Hi guys

    a Bosch pump properly set up and calibrated will stay in calibration for at least 500'000km if a diesel fuel with sufficient lubricity is used.

    I was fortunate to be given a factory tour in 2000 at Koller & Schwemmer in Nürnberg (Bavaria). They are the biggest Bosch Pump shop in the world and are also commissioned by many truck manufacturers to fabricate the pre-production diesel pumps (NON-CRD) for new engine developments.

    I attended during a MB club outing from one of overseas motorclubs I belong to. Of particular interest to us was the accuracy of the pump timing, as the (petrol) fuel injection system of our cars in that club is of the direct injection variety, as was used on the DB601 and DB603 engines (Messerschmitt 109 and 110).

    We were assured that pump timing will stay accurate for at least 1/2 a million kilometres, if adequate lubrication of the pump was assured.

    This is one of the reasons, why adequate levels of lubricity were and in todays engines even more so are of critical importance.

    As LL quite correctly has observed, the change intervals for injectors are normally around 200000km.

    To generalise one could summarize:

    1. With 3000ppm diesel about 200'000km

    2. With 500ppm diesel less than 200'000km

    3. With 50ppm diesel only probably around 110'000-130'000km

    4. With 50ppm or 500ppm diesel with 1:200 ratio 2sO added anything above 250'000km or higher. The critical issue here is tip erosion.

    I have done on a OM617 diesel (MB 300D - W123) over 300'000km with one set of injectors with the miracle formula

    To recon injectors is basically a waste of time. The price difference between a recon injector and a new one is not worth the effort.

    As far as pump timing is concerned, the most effective way to do this is to use the snap-on pulse to optical signal transducer, that will allow the use of a strobe type timing light.

    I had my pump set up like that by Landyonline when the cambelt was changed.
    Last edited by hgbosch; 2011/11/15 at 07:15 AM.
    George Bosch
    2003 RangeRover Vogue 3.0 Td6 (Mine) / 2005 LR Disco3 TDV6 S (Swambo's) / 1998 Disco1 Tdi ES (Sold) / And some more serious stuff

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    Thanks for that info George. Even helpful for a technically-challenged idiot like me. BTW, what's the symtoms of the injectors needing to be replaced ? I would assume power loss but I guess there must be more.
    2006 Defender KE 300 TDi (aka Hari), previously 2003 TD5 90 (aka Steri) and 1994 TDi HiLine 200 TDi (aka Big Blue).
    Afrispoor Serval off-road caravan (aka ORC).

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by j-ms View Post
    Thanks for that info George. Even helpful for a technically-challenged idiot like me. BTW, what's the symtoms of the injectors needing to be replaced ? I would assume power loss but I guess there must be more.
    Hi j-ms

    tell tale signs of injectors on their way out are:

    1. An increase in smoke (Grey)

    2. Difficulty in starting when cold

    3. Uneven firing after startup from cold for the initial 10-15 seconds paired with increased diesel knock during this period i.e. over fuelling of one or more injectors due to leakage.

    4. Higher EGT (if you got an EMS1 or similar)

    These are about the most common ones.

    BTW black smoke indicates a blocked air filter or a blown or delaminated turbo hose (turbo to intercooler or intercooler to intake manifold).
    Last edited by hgbosch; 2011/11/15 at 07:16 AM.
    George Bosch
    2003 RangeRover Vogue 3.0 Td6 (Mine) / 2005 LR Disco3 TDV6 S (Swambo's) / 1998 Disco1 Tdi ES (Sold) / And some more serious stuff

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    Many thanks to hgbosch and LandyLuvver for your replies. It is much appreciated! You guys are providing a great service to this community, especially to the idiots like me.

    Note to self: Get Landyluvver's and hgbosch's contact details and send them cases of beer.

    BergKwagga

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    Quote Originally Posted by trance-porter View Post
    I had my injectors redone last year this time. new tips and pump timing set, just over R3000.00
    What? This is good news! It's cheap. This past Saturday an employee of a Pretoria based independant LR specialist (I won't mention the shop's name), gave me an estimate of R3500 per injector, to have it reconditioned that is. That is = R14 000 total! I nearly had a heart attack!


    Quote Originally Posted by Landyluvver
    new set of injectors around R4000 per set.
    i was quoted today to recon a set the same price as a new set of injectors from DE Bosch. will just go ahead and get new ones.
    R4000? Is this total cost, i.e. for new injectors, fitment, pump timing, al in?

    BergKwagga

  11. #11
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    cost new per injector complete brand new (not reconned) about R1100 + vat from Diesel electric.

    Land Rovers never die, they simply become organ donors!

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    Landyluvver

    Does one need to have these new injectors calibrated at all or could one just drop them in and would this include the seals and stuff
    At 1100 bucks its a no brainer unless there is more to be done
    I am talking about the 300 tdi

    Thanks
    Ross

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    Quote Originally Posted by RossJ View Post
    Landyluvver

    Does one need to have these new injectors calibrated at all or could one just drop them in and would this include the seals and stuff
    At 1100 bucks its a no brainer unless there is more to be done
    I am talking about the 300 tdi

    Thanks
    Ross
    Hi Rossj and Bergkwagga

    Calibrating of the diesel pump is in most cases necessary, when there is uneven firing over a range of rpm.

    In most cases, it is just the start of injection, that has to be set and for that the pump does not have to be removed.

    There are special tools available to peg the pump in the correct position and then the cam belt gets tightened to the correct tension. This procedure only needs to get done, when the cambelt has been removed or changed (every 60'000km).

    But as already pointed out in a previous posting, the most accurate and painless way of doing it is via the snap-on transducer method.

    Injectors are removed, and new ones are inserted with a new washer, with the ribbed surface facing the head.

    Here it helps to crank the engine a few revolutions with the injectors out. This will eject any loose carbon particles around the injector seating surface.

    When refitting the injectors, make sure that the securing bolts are torqued correctly.

    If done as above you will have no further issues.
    Last edited by hgbosch; 2011/11/17 at 06:34 AM.
    George Bosch
    2003 RangeRover Vogue 3.0 Td6 (Mine) / 2005 LR Disco3 TDV6 S (Swambo's) / 1998 Disco1 Tdi ES (Sold) / And some more serious stuff

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    Quote Originally Posted by RossJ View Post
    Landyluvver

    Does one need to have these new injectors calibrated at all or could one just drop them in and would this include the seals and stuff
    the 300 Tdi injector is a mechanical preset injector with no adjustments.
    the pump does the work.
    on the Td5 the injector is a combo unit.
    the injector is an injector and pump in one and that needs calibration.

    Land Rovers never die, they simply become organ donors!

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    OK, now my turn for the stoopid questions

    I'm looking at buying a 1995 Mahindra Jeep, with about 77000 on the odo.

    This model is fitted with a 2.1 litre Peogeot engine, ( as uses in the old 404 / 504) which uses a mechanical Bosch injector pump.

    Now for the question: RE: Injectors - will these be model specific for the Peogeot engine, or will they be Bosch units, used on other cars as well?

    I guess what I want to know is, will I be able to find replacements without too much hassles, and that at a reasonable price (less than R 1500 per injector) ??

    Since we have the "good old" 500ppm diesel in Namibia, that would be needed after 120 000km, which is 4 years driving for me...

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landyluvver View Post
    cost new per injector complete brand new (not reconned) about R1100 + vat from Diesel electric.
    Hi all,

    Below follows costing info received this week from service providers in Pretoria area, for 300Tdi injectors.

    Note that Diesel Electric's Pretoria branch quoted a bit higher than what LandLuvver was quoted for (which branch?), as per his earlier posting in this thread). Diesel Electirc Pretoria also stated that they only have two injectors in stock, but will be able to get more injectors from their JHB branch (at the same price as per the quote given to me).


    1) To replace 4x 300Tdi injectors, by Independent 4x4 Parts Pty Ltd:

    4x Injector 300Tdi = R 6 240-00 (excl. VAT)
    4x Washer = R 20-00 (excl. VAT)
    Sundries = R 95-00 (excl. VAT)
    3x R350 Labour = R 1 050-00 (excl. VAT)

    Sub-total = R 7 405-00 (excl. VAT)
    14% VAT = R 1 036-70
    Total = R 8 441-70 (incl. VAT) Note: 12 month warranty included

    Contact person: Neo

    2) To replace 4 injectors, by British 4x4:

    4x Injector 300Tdi = R 6 422-37 (excl. VAT)
    4x Washer = R 10-00 (excl. VAT)
    1x R300 Labour = R 300-00 (excl. VAT)

    Sub-total = R 6 732-37 (excl. VAT)
    14% VAT = R 942-53 (excl. VAT)
    Total = R 7 674-90 (incl. VAT) Note: 12 month warranty included

    Contact person: Mari

    3) To recondition 4x 300Tdi injectors, by Independent 4x4 Parts Pty Ltd:

    4x Injector 300Tdi = R 3 400-00 (excl. VAT)
    4x Washer = R 20-00 (excl. VAT)
    Sundries = R 95-00 (excl. VAT)
    3x R350 Labour = R 1 050-00 (excl. VAT)

    Sub total = R 4 565-00 (excl. VAT)
    14% VAT = R 639-10
    Total = R 5 204-10 (incl. VAT)

    Contact person: Neo

    4) To recondition 4x 300Tdi injectors, by British 4x4:

    Note: Brtitish 4x4 did not inlcude the re-condition option in their quotation, they said that the cost is about the same as for new injectors, rendering this option a waste of money. Then can provide a quote for this option though.

    Contact person: Mari

    5) To buy 4x 300Tdi injectors, from Diesel Electric (Pretoria branch):

    1x Injector 300Tdi (Code ERR3339) = R 1 452-22 (excl. VAT)

    Contact person: Desmond Searle



    Cherio.
    BergKwagga

  17. #17
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    Hi Bergquagga

    also check with Dover Parts, genuine Bosch injectors.

    To change injectors takes about 30 minutes labour.

    1. Loosen union nuts on pump about 1 turn each.

    2. Remove injector pipes at injector end.

    3. Remove injector clamps and remove injector one at a time. If they are stuck, get some one to crank the engine one or two turns, this will free the stuck injector, while you are holding a large lint free rag over the injector to prevent it from hitting the (open) bonnet.

    Refit new injector with new washer and torque injector clamp bolt to correct tightness.

    Refit injector pipes and fasten at both injector and pump ends.

    Job done!
    George Bosch
    2003 RangeRover Vogue 3.0 Td6 (Mine) / 2005 LR Disco3 TDV6 S (Swambo's) / 1998 Disco1 Tdi ES (Sold) / And some more serious stuff

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  18. #18
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    Hi Hgbosch

    You are quite correct about putting the injectors in but the pump must be reset to allow for the now different nozzle pressure required for the pump to push through

  19. #19
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    a modified claw hammer works a treat.
    enlarge the claw gap marginally with a small angle grinder to snugly fit in under the injector pipe nut.
    ensure that the clamp and bolt is removed.
    preferable to remove the tappet cover to offer a rigid surface for the hammer to rest on. a thn piece of wood can be fitted between the hammer and the head to prevent marking the head.
    use a 15? spanner and give the injector a twist on the neck and then use the claw hammer to lift the injector off its seat. gentle knocking against the handle of the hammer will a rubber hammer sideways will gently drive the injector upwards.
    will post pics later

    Land Rovers never die, they simply become organ donors!

  20. #20
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    Hi almal, wil net hoor hoekom vervang jy nie net die injector tip nie,jy kan dit by bosch self koop en dan lat j dit net kalibreer,of is daar iets anners wat ook klaar raak?

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