SWAMBO's Ex opposing kids emigrating...

[Bush&Sea]

So we want to emigrate to Botswana and start our guest house in Maun, but SWAMBO's Ex is dead set against allowing her to take the Boys with us. They are 9 and 11 and would be in a great school, living a fantastic lifestyle, and a quick flight or drive away from their Dad. The intention is to send them back to SA for boarding school at Treverton when they reach high school level and then they would spend more time with their father than ourselves and this is done with their best interests at heart as the high school education level in Maun is not the best. What options do we have here? We've both tried to talk calmly and reasonably with him but he's not budging. He also has three babies (1 month, 1 year and 2 years old!) with his new wife who is surely going to battle to cope with another two mouths to feed and drive to school etc etc? Any suggestions....

[KampKoos]

Well its his kids and he probably would like to see them often. So if you want to emigrate, offer(on black and white) to buy them return plane tickets every month and also for all the hollidays which they would normally visit him.

PS what does the fact that he's got 3 other babies and a wife to feed, to do with the problem that a father wants to see his children?

[Schuits]

Will be following this thread with interest. In my case SWAMBOs ex won't sign the passport papers for their kids. So even travelling to Moz is currently not an option.

[Bush&Sea]

Well its his kids and he probably would like to see them often. So if you want to emigrate, offer(on black and white) to buy them return plane tickets every month and also for all the hollidays which they would normally visit him.

PS what does the fact that he's got 3 other babies and a wife to feed, to do with the problem that a father wants to see his children?

With regard to the visitation issue, thats been made very clear that he is welcome to see the Boys whenever he likes.

Regarding the 3 new kids, his new wife doesn't like having the Boys over because its too much stress for her to cope with...what happens to the relationship if they move in permanently? I've lived with hostile step-parents and it aint pretty...

[SimonB]

Who has custody?

[petermoffat]

Is the dad making noises about wanting custody?

[Bush&Sea]

Who has custody?

SWAMBO does. The Boys have lived with her as "principal" parent for 7 years...

[Bush&Sea]

Is the dad making noises about wanting custody?

Pretty much. He doesn't want to allow them out the coutry and wants them to stay with him rather. whether it would lead to a hearing to change custody or not remains to be seen.

[SimonB]

Well having custody is half the battle won but it seems the courts will have to get involved

Sounds like it might get ugly.

Just found this:

Emigration of minors with the custodian parent

What is the legal position of a divorced parent taking a child overseas permanently?
Emigration of minors with the custodian parent

What is the legal position of a divorced parent taking a child overseas permanently?

The custodian parent has to obtain permission of the other guardian if he/she intends to emigrate. If this permission cannot be obtained, the custodian parent must apply to the High Court in terms of the Guardianship Act. The courts will take the following factors into consideration:

1. The best interest of the child
First and paramount consideration

2. Freedom of movement of the guardian that intends to emigrate

3. Possibility of access by the guardian that stays behind.
Can the guardian staying behind afford to travel to the other country and if not, will his/her access to the child be limited to occasional holidays, phone calls and emails

4. The reasons for the emigration
Must be made in good faith and must be reasonable

See also Divorced parent taking child overseas

__________________________________________________ ___________________

Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction

What is the legal position if the custodian parent takes a minor child overseas without the permission of the ex spouse?

South Africa has incorporated the Hague Convention which provides for the mandatory return of a child (under 16) removed or retained in breach of the right of custody of any person or institution, to the place in the jurisdiction in which the child had been a habitual resident immediately prior to the removal or retention.

The best interest of the child is of utmost importance, and the court may in its decision place more weight on the child’s long term interest while overriding the short term interest.

A court may however, refuse returning the child if “there is a grave risk that his/her return would expose the child to physically and or psychological harm otherwise placing the child in an intolerable situation.”

In cases where domestic violence has been directed at the mother and not the child, and where the child will not be placed in a position to suffer any physical or serious psychological harm, the court will order a return of a child to the jurisdiction in which the child resided before removal.

[Robbief]

Family Planning maybe!!!!


hope you can come to some agreement.

Robbie

[Bush&Sea]

We certainly hope it doesn't turn ugly. What would be the legal steps taken in this case to try and ensure that the Boys can emigrate? I think their Dad might actually have joint custody currently although the Boys have stayed with their Mom on a permanent basis with the Dad having visitation rights etc.

[Mike N]

The problem is that once you are out of SA, you can go from Botswana to wherever and he would have no further control. Difficult one this, I'm always amazed at how children, divorce, parents, and step-parents creates a lot of issues.

[KampKoos]

[QUOTE=Bush&Sea;953468]With regard to the visitation issue, thats been made very clear that he is welcome to see the Boys whenever he likes.

QUOTE]

And who will pay for the travel costs? Was that also made very clear? It is easy to say Im going to Australia and the father may see them as often as he likes.

If you offered to pay for plane tickets so he can see them just as often as he is seeing them now, and he still refused, then I will take your side. But If you want to move far away and tell him he can see them as often as he want, but the logistics is his problem, then sorry I take the fathers side.

[Bush&Sea]

Thanks SimonB - that helps us a bit with knowing where to turn if need be.

MikeN - Yip its an emotional cocktail!

[ZuluCowboy]

There is a new child act out, so if you go to court, it will be judged according to the new act, and there is no more a thing of custody, best interest of the child, with a primary and secondary parent, and the kiddies have a say, so if they are over 12, THEY will be able to make the decision themselves where they want to stay, get LEGAL advice about this, it can turn out to be a pot of sticky treacle and your new swambo may just have to make concessions and compromises and could end up being in favour of the dad.

BTW, YOU count for NOTHING in this situation!!

Leave the new wife and kiddies out of it, court does not recognise any emotion.

Get LEGAL advice, I have just been through a sort of similar situation, get your ducks lined up BEFORE you make any offer to him, and do it armed with the correct legal advice.

Did I mention get legal advice....

[Bush&Sea]

[QUOTE=KampKoos;953504]

With regard to the visitation issue, thats been made very clear that he is welcome to see the Boys whenever he likes.

QUOTE]

And who will pay for the travel costs? Was that also made very clear? It is easy to say Im going to Australia and the father may see them as often as he likes.

If you offered to pay for plane tickets so he can see them just as often as he is seeing them now, and he still refused, then I will take your side. But If you want to move far away and tell him he can see them as often as he want, but the logistics is his problem, then sorry I take the fathers side.

KampKoos, the Man is Financial Director of his own very succesful business and regularly travels overseas on holiday (3 -4 times per year) so money is not an issue for him. He would be welcome to also come and stay free of charge in the guesthouse while visiting the Boys. Maun is no further than Cape Town - we wouldn't need any permission to move there. Australia might be a different kettle of fish altogether. Besides its just a couple of years and then he will have main access to the Boys when they reach high school.

[AjayDisco]

Ya this is a difficult one. I have a friend who has this same problem. His daughter with this women has since been living in the UK for the last 2 / 3 years. So now she is coming back to fetch all her kids. Yes, all her kids. She had two prior to my mate having his daughter with her, and now she expects him to sign her off for her to go live with her mother in the UK. Then he only gets to see her maybe every 2 years with the costs of flying her out as a child supervised passanger.
Your intensions seem ligit, but the father of his 2 sons doesn't see it that way. Or is simply not keen on the visiting restrictions or process if this the case. Not to be nasty to either party here, but there has to be a work around or nothing...

[Bush&Sea]

Did I mention get legal advice....

You did indeed! Thanks for the sound advice.

[Estee]

I cant relate to your situation but I can only imagine how you feel. I could understand some oposition if you were moving to Oz or Canada or Europe etc but Bots to me would be like relocating from JHB to CPTN.

[Cal]

Jinne Guys! Is this the place for domestic squabbles?