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  1. #1
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    Default Adding 2SO to low-sulphur diesel

    Hi all,

    I know there is a big debate on this forum around the use of 2-stroke oil, i.e. adding to diesel fuel. With some members strongly recommending it (for example "hgbosch"), while some are apposed to this practise.

    I do not mean to re-open this debate here. But while reading the October 2011 edition of SA4x4 magazine, I came accross a letter in the "Clinic" section, which touches on this subject (nogal this month's winning letter!). The author (a regular contributor to the "Clinic" section, representing CRD 4x4 Fitment & Repairs), advises a 4x4 owner to add 2-stroke oil to his vehicle's diesel - and sites the exact same reasons as does forum member "hgbosch".

    Anyway, I just wanted to bring this letter to the attention of undecided forum members, as it may help them with making a descision.

    Cherio.
    BergKwagga
    Last edited by Dirk; 2016/05/10 at 07:35 AM.

  2. #2
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    wonder what happened to the trials that ( i think) RedlineR was running
    improvements in lubricity is always advantageous.
    preliminary trials showed inprovements in atomisation as well if i remember correctly.
    the majority of guys report improvements in response, quiter running but some of the other claims such as consumption have not been proven.
    certainly one could expect improvements in wear and tear of components that require some lubrication such as injector components.

    Land Rovers never die, they simply become organ donors!

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    So, will someone please tell Landynut to run 2SO before embarking on his breakfast run with those "new" injectors on Thursday !!
    Driven by passion
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    Quote Originally Posted by BergKwagga View Post
    Hi all,

    I know there is a big debate on this forum around the use of 2-stroke oil, i.e. adding to diesel fuel. With some members strongly recommending it (for example "hgbosch"), while some are apposed to this practise.

    I do not mean to re-open this debate here. But while reading the October 2011 edition of SA4x4 magazine, I came accross a letter in the "Clinic" section, which touches on this subject (nogal this month's winning letter!). The author (a regular contributor to the "Clinic" section, representing CRD 4x4 Fitment & Repairs), advises a 4x4 owner to add 2-stroke oil to his vehicle's diesel - and sites the exact same reasons as does forum member "hgbosch".

    Anyway, I just wanted to bring this letter to the attention of undecided forum members, as it may help them with making a descision.

    Cherio.
    BergKwagga
    Hi bergqwagga

    2sO is a fuel oil. I.e. it is meant to be burnt while at the same time it provides lubrication to moving parts i.e. in 2 stroke engines.

    The quieter running of diesel engines when using 2sO is the result of A BETTER AND MORE COMPLETE combustion of the fuel injected.

    In diesel engines, noise (diesel knock) is in most cases the result of a less than optimal combustion.

    The fact that highly stressed diesel injection components receive a desperately needed boost in lubrication is a very welcome side effect.

    I really don't think that further elaboration on this topic is needed!
    George Bosch
    2003 RangeRover Vogue 3.0 Td6 (Mine) / 2005 LR Disco3 TDV6 S (Swambo's) / 1998 Disco1 Tdi ES (Sold) / And some more serious stuff

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  5. #5
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    If it is so good, then why doesn't the fuel manufacturers add it ?
    Everything is a hammer.
    Unless it is a screw driver.

    Then it it a chisel.

    083 399 2046

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  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uys View Post
    If it is so good, then why doesn't the fuel manufacturers add it ?
    Dis seker maar ook dieselfde storie met mense wat 'n Land Rover koop en dan die air suspensie uitruk en vervang met coils soos op 'n Toyota.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uys View Post
    If it is so good, then why doesn't the fuel manufacturers add it ?
    they do
    because lubricity additives are expensive to add, they obviously don't add any more than is required by law.
    this has been discussed before but it needs to be reiterated that you need but only one tank of diesel doped with paraffin to damage components.
    fuel companies comply stringently with quality standards but don't have much control over what happens once the fuel has left their depots.
    if a garage makes 25c per litre of what they sell and can add another 50c in terms of markup from bulking up with paraffin, then it is a incentive to be dishonest.

    Land Rovers never die, they simply become organ donors!

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uys View Post
    If it is so good, then why doesn't the fuel manufacturers add it ?
    Well guys everyone is entitled to his/her opinion.

    Could then someone please explain to the many "victims" of exorbitant repair bills resulting from the replacement of CRD pumps and injectors that succumbed to the grinding death of insufficient lubrication..

    Disco3 TDV6 130'000km - R27000.00 (my wife's Disco3 while still with its previous owner).

    Toyota Hilux/Fortuner D4D Average failure of CRD components between 90'000 and 140'000km naturally due to lack of lubricitiy.

    I don't even want to start with BMW and Mercs.....
    George Bosch
    2003 RangeRover Vogue 3.0 Td6 (Mine) / 2005 LR Disco3 TDV6 S (Swambo's) / 1998 Disco1 Tdi ES (Sold) / And some more serious stuff

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    I'm not this well educated technical boffin and would not try to ellaborate on the advantages or disadvantages of adding 2SO to diesel. I would however like to say that I followed George's advice and added my first liter to my diesel and then did the same the next time I fueled up and I must say that the engine is running much quiter than before.
    Theo le Roux
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landyluvver View Post
    wonder what happened to the trials that ( i think) RedlineR was running
    improvements in lubricity is always advantageous.
    preliminary trials showed inprovements in atomisation as well if i remember correctly.
    Nope, not me.
    I just posted all the known science about the subject. Reports etc. everything I could find at the time anyways.

    My conclusion was that one could add a proper additive if fuel is suspect, or if venturing cross-border.
    One could use 2 stroke oil if a proper additive was not available.

    It should be noted that these will void warrentees. So it has a huge "use at own risk" sticker attached.
    Now engine manufacturers might be overly cautious, or they might just know what they're talking about.

    As yet, there has been ZERO evidence of any advantage of 2SO in diesel, especially the advantages claimed here.
    The only evidence we do have is that it does increase the lubricity of diesel, though other critical parameters like Cetane numbers are not measured and the influence of 2 stroke oil on these, are unknown.

    As far as we known, there have been no critical engine failures due to 2 stroke use in diesel, though again, I stick a huge warning sticker on my own statement here. This is only as far as I know. There may well be examples of this, and I simply don't know about them as I lost all interest in this subject.
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  13. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by hgbosch View Post
    Hi bergqwagga
    ....
    I really don't think that further elaboration on this topic is needed!
    Ditto

  14. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uys View Post
    If it is so good, then why doesn't the fuel manufacturers add it ?
    Hi Uys

    this is why.





    On any diesel with VVT (variable Vane) technology, the addition of 2sO effectively prevents the vane mechanism from getting stuck by excessive soot build up.

    The pictures above, coming from Swambos D3 turbo which gave in at 158000km due to excessive Cat back pressure) speak volumes.

    From these pictures even a complete novice with no technical background/understanding can see the absence of soot on the vanes and the throat of the turbo (exhaust side). This turbo has 158000km on it.

    That is what we have been debating on this forum. Add to that much quieter running and redundancy of the injection components due to much increased lubrication.

    And now for the techies. In the Jaso-FC classified 2sO there are additives, that the carbon deposits in an engine will soak up. This then makes them soft until they release from the part they are sticking on and find their way via the exhaust out of the engine.

    Once all the carbon has been removed, this 2sO effectively prevents the build up of new carbon deposits. The turbo above had been running for 28000km only on 2sO but that was enough to remove all the soot and carbon deposits from those areas, where the exhaust gases flow.
    Last edited by hgbosch; 2011/10/19 at 04:50 AM.
    George Bosch
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  15. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedLineR View Post
    Nope, not me.
    I just posted all the known science about the subject. Reports etc. everything I could find at the time anyways.

    My conclusion was that one could add a proper additive if fuel is suspect, or if venturing cross-border.
    One could use 2 stroke oil if a proper additive was not available.

    It should be noted that these will void warrentees. So it has a huge "use at own risk" sticker attached.
    Now engine manufacturers might be overly cautious, or they might just know what they're talking about.

    As yet, there has been ZERO evidence of any advantage of 2SO in diesel, especially the advantages claimed here.
    The only evidence we do have is that it does increase the lubricity of diesel, though other critical parameters like Cetane numbers are not measured and the influence of 2 stroke oil on these, are unknown.

    As far as we known, there have been no critical engine failures due to 2 stroke use in diesel, though again, I stick a huge warning sticker on my own statement here. This is only as far as I know. There may well be examples of this, and I simply don't know about them as I lost all interest in this subject.
    Hi RedlineR

    seeing that your fleet consists of petrol vehicles, not diesel, where do you take your "expert" reasonings from?

    But seriously, just check the pics in my last posting above. They explain the benefit of 2sO much better than a 500 page doctoral thesis could do with lots of diagrams etc.

    I have never (after 20 years in the motor trade with manufacturers) heard that the condition of an engine was queried, due to a lack of excessive carbon and/or soot deposits.

    Sometimes it actually helps when one understands the topic debated.
    George Bosch
    2003 RangeRover Vogue 3.0 Td6 (Mine) / 2005 LR Disco3 TDV6 S (Swambo's) / 1998 Disco1 Tdi ES (Sold) / And some more serious stuff

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  16. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by hgbosch View Post
    Hi Uys

    this is why.






    The pictures above, coming from Swambos D3 turbo which gave in at 158000km due to excessive Cat back pressure) speak volumes.
    Could the excessive Cat back pressure be related to the use of 2SO?
    2004 Defender 110 Td5


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    cat back pressure could be reduced with 2SO.
    it will not work in 5 minutes but a gradual improvement will occur.
    i would however get rid of the cat
    cats typically tend to block up quickly if cars are used mainly in urban cycle and not occasionally allowed to go for a good run in the country.
    Last edited by Landyluvver; 2011/10/19 at 08:08 AM.

    Land Rovers never die, they simply become organ donors!

  18. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by hgbosch View Post
    Hi RedlineR

    seeing that your fleet consists of petrol vehicles, not diesel, where do you take your "expert" reasonings from?

    But seriously, just check the pics in my last posting above. They explain the benefit of 2sO much better than a 500 page doctoral thesis could do with lots of diagrams etc.

    I have never (after 20 years in the motor trade with manufacturers) heard that the condition of an engine was queried, due to a lack of excessive carbon and/or soot deposits.

    Sometimes it actually helps when one understands the topic debated.
    HGbosch: Redliner has done a lot of reasearch on this matter. Search the forum and you will find a thread that he sited research documents, and actual interviews. He tried his best to disprove the benifit of 2SO, but in the end came to his conclution sited above.

    All this was debated before you joined the forum. so dig into the past and you will find all.
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  19. #17
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    Ok so how much of what exactly do you add and how often please ?

  20. #18
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    NOW we're talking sense....!!
    Driven by passion
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  21. #19
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    first tank 500ml
    thereafter 250ml/tank

    Land Rovers never die, they simply become organ donors!

  22. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landyluvver View Post
    first tank 500ml
    thereafter 250ml/tank
    150l tank or 55l tank?

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