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Thread: Kgalagadi

  1. #3161
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    Default Re: Kgalagadi

    Quote Originally Posted by lekhubu943 View Post
    Looking forward to the photo's

    The lower dune road was horrible in April, if the upper dune road is worse then it must be really really bad.

    I have long since said that the piece from TR to Samevloeing should be tarred as well as the dune roads. Fact is the park sees more traffic now that 5 or 8 years ago and adjustments needs to be made. The type of soil and all the dunes on the dune roads just does not lean itself to handling that much traffic. So tar them and put up a few unmanned speed traps and FINE the bloody speedsters.

    The only other solution is to reduce the accommodation (and visitors) to the park with 50%. I know which one most us will prefer, but it is obviously not viable.
    Lekhubu, I think the problem is there's too much shifting sand to allow for tarring (thank heavens)

  2. #3162
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    Default Re: Kgalagadi

    As die paaie geteer word dan gaan daar net meer mense soontoe kan gaan.
    Kry maar net n betroubare 4x4 en blaas jou bande af, ek was self ook al n paar keur daar gewees en dit is waarom ek n 4x4 het om sulke paaie te gaan ry.
    Of gaan krugerwildtuin toe daar is teer paaie om te ry.

  3. #3163
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    Default Re: Kgalagadi

    Quote Originally Posted by lekhubu943 View Post
    Looking forward to the photo's

    The lower dune road was horrible in April, if the upper dune road is worse then it must be really really bad.

    I have long since said that the piece from TR to Samevloeing should be tarred as well as the dune roads. Fact is the park sees more traffic now that 5 or 8 years ago and adjustments needs to be made. The type of soil and all the dunes on the dune roads just does not lean itself to handling that much traffic. So tar them and put up a few unmanned speed traps and FINE the bloody speedsters.

    The only other solution is to reduce the accommodation (and visitors) to the park with 50%. I know which one most us will prefer, but it is obviously not viable.
    Dune roads only get busted with people driving them with over inflated tyres. I can take you to dune routes that is 50 plus years old and are in pristine condition because the users let down pressure and understand dune driving.

    Please no tar in the Kgalagadi. There is nothing that ruin nature more than a tarred road and overhead power lines.
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  4. #3164
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    Default Re: Kgalagadi

    Ek stem100% saam. Die grond paaie help om die Kgalagadi uniek te maak en dit nie n vertrapping van mense te maak nie.
    Quote Originally Posted by Leon Venter View Post
    As die paaie geteer word dan gaan daar net meer mense soontoe kan gaan.
    Kry maar net n betroubare 4x4 en blaas jou bande af, ek was self ook al n paar keur daar gewees en dit is waarom ek n 4x4 het om sulke paaie te gaan ry.
    Of gaan krugerwildtuin toe daar is teer paaie om te ry.
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  5. #3165

    Default Re: Kgalagadi

    Ah I see some knee jerk reactions as expected.

    Please, please tell me how tarring (or rehabilitating/rebuilding if those words will sit better with some) 2 roads will increase visitors numbers. I am dying to know the reasoning.

    People face it. The horse has bolted. It happened the day when the access road tarred. Fact is the dune roads are not able to carry the volume of traffic due to their make up and sensitivity. The dune roads are beyond the old nugget of 'let down your tyres', they are disintegrating at an alarming rate probably helped along due to the drought.

    It is a problem that needs a solution, that is all I am saying. But it is easier sitting around telling everyone to let down their tyres and use as capable 4x4 than acknowledge the problem

    Quote Originally Posted by grips View Post
    I can take you to dune routes that is 50 plus years old and are in pristine condition because the users let down pressure and understand dune driving.
    Without intending you have identified the exact reason why the dune roads and in fact all roads in the KTP deteriorates. You assume that every visitor lets down their tyres, understand driving those type of roads, adjust their speed. The largest portion of visitors don't. And those dune roads you can take me to does not see 50 or 60 vehicles per day.
    Last edited by lekhubu943; 2019/11/20 at 07:50 AM.
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  6. #3166
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    Default Re: Kgalagadi

    Quote Originally Posted by stevan View Post
    We just returned from KTP. Two weeks, stayed Mata Mata, Nossob and Grootkolk. Park is very dry, but every day was a surprise. This park never fails to deliver, despite the drought. For the first time in 15 years we saw eland. Unfortunately they seems to be on the number one hit list of lion, because they are slow. Lions kept us awake at Nossob and Grootkolk. Nossob were a pride of ten with two big males, roaring in stereo for three night, wow. Roads are the normal teeth rattling, but the sand was much thicker. Some places had detours around the nice sandy play parts. Saw plenty animals, in smaller groups. Birds were less than normal.

    The dune road at Dikbaardskolk however is HORRIBLE and in my opinion no longer road worthy. My advise, rather take the lower dune road. Despite the badly corrugated status, parts of the top soil is gone, leaving large patches of sand pits. So you will summit one of the crests and there will be nothing underneath, leaving you airborne for a couple of meters.

    I will post some photo's, in no cat pictures thread.
    It wasn't too bad last month. One bad bump, otherwise quite driveable.
    We had a huge issue with the big overlanding trucks - they would grade the road the one day, and by the next morning the trucks had ruined the roads again.

  7. #3167
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    Default Re: Kgalagadi

    Problem with the dune road is it needs a redo. I am not a road engineer and unfortunately I think we are lacking these guys expertise around South Africa. But you can not build a gravel road and then send the grader around every now and then, scraping of a couple of cm's from the gravel top part. After a couple of years the top gravel layer will be scraped off, exposing the underlay of sand. And then these nasty potholes arrive and get bigger and deeper.

    I agree with you Lekhubu, it make sense to tar the 50 km dune road. However I think there is no money available. Not even money left to get a proper engineer and try to patch those nasty sandpits. It will be very sad if one of the hundreds inexperienced visitors from over sea crash and get seriously injured or even die on account of this. Maybe then they will find some money.
    Last edited by stevan; 2019/11/20 at 08:36 AM.
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  8. #3168
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    Default Re: Kgalagadi

    Quote Originally Posted by lekhubu943 View Post
    Ah I see some knee jerk reactions as expected.

    Please, please tell me how tarring (or rehabilitating/rebuilding if those words will sit better with some) 2 roads will increase visitors numbers. I am dying to know the reasoning.

    People face it. The horse has bolted. It happened the day when the access road tarred. Fact is the dune roads are not able to carry the volume of traffic due to their make up and sensitivity. The dune roads are beyond the old nugget of 'let down your tyres', they are disintegrating at an alarming rate probably helped along due to the drought.

    It is a problem that needs a solution, that is all I am saying. But it is easier sitting around telling everyone to let down their tyres and use as capable 4x4 than acknowledge the problem



    Without intending you have identified the exact reason why the dune roads and in fact all roads in the KTP deteriorates. You assume that every visitor lets down their tyres, understand driving those type of roads, adjust their speed. The largest portion of visitors don't. And those dune roads you can take me to does not see 50 or 60 vehicles per day.
    I can show you dune routes destroyed in one day by the inexperienced that does not understand dune driving.
    Last edited by grips; 2019/11/20 at 08:52 AM.
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  9. #3169
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    Default Re: Kgalagadi

    Quote Originally Posted by stevan View Post
    Problem with the dune road is it needs a redo. I am not a road engineer and unfortunately I think we are lacking these guys expertise around South Africa. But you can not build a gravel road and then send the grader around every now and then, scraping of a couple of cm's from the gravel top part. After a couple of years the top gravel layer will be scraped off, exposing the underlay of sand. And then these nasty potholes arrive and get bigger and deeper.

    I agree with you Lekhubu, it make sense to tar the 50 km dune road. However I think there is no money available. Not even money left to get a proper engineer and try to patch those nasty sandpits. It will be very sad if one of the hundreds inexperienced visitors from over sea crash and get seriously injured or even die on account of this. Maybe then they will find some money.
    The right time of the year to grade dirt roads is the wet season. With the ongoing drought most gravel roads are in a horrible condition.
    It is not what you buy its what you build.

  10. #3170
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    Default Re: Kgalagadi

    Christa is correct, tarring the roads will have zero impact on visitor numbers. It may increase the numbers wanting to go, but the numbers that can overnight in the Park is dictated by water availability. They can’t build more camps as they don’t have the water capacity.

    The tarring story is not new, it has been around since the early 80’s when the Nats looked into it. They even got as far as deciding on a brown tar to blend in better. They canned it because it wasn’t feasible, so the chances of it being done now are nought to zero.

  11. #3171

    Default Re: Kgalagadi

    Quote Originally Posted by grips View Post
    I can show you dune routes destroyed in one day by unexperienced that does not understand dune driving.
    Thank you, you keep proving my point why the current dune roads in the KTP will keep on being destroyed in their current form.

    The solution is not to keep on grading them. It is the same principal as the road from Sossusvlei to Walvisbay: too high traffic volumes for what the substrate can handle, speed, hard tyres and inexperience. That road has also deteriorated to the point of no return and plans have been set in place to rebuild it by the same contractor who has rehabilitated Etosha's roads. Same story in Etosha.
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  12. #3172
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    Default Re: Kgalagadi

    Quote Originally Posted by lekhubu943 View Post
    Thank you, you keep proving my point why the current dune roads in the KTP will keep on being destroyed in their current form.

    The solution is not to keep on grading them. It is the same principal as the road from Sossusvlei to Walvisbay: too high traffic volumes for what the substrate can handle, speed, hard tyres and inexperience. That road has also deteriorated to the point of no return and plans have been set in place to rebuild it by the same contractor who has rehabilitated Etosha's roads. Same story in Etosha.

    Jip - the C14 (Sossusvlei road) and the roads in Etosha are shot... The C14 especially needs tarring. The tourists with their rental Hiluxes and 3 bar tyres need about 2 weeks after a grading to screw the road up properly again

  13. #3173

    Default Re: Kgalagadi

    Quote Originally Posted by RobH View Post
    ..The tarring story is not new, it has been around since the early 80’s when the Nats looked into it. They even got as far as deciding on a brown tar to blend in better. They canned it because it wasn’t feasible, so the chances of it being done now are nought to zero.
    Ok, did not realize that it was discussed that far back.

    I have no doubt that it is not feasible and it will never happen. So all the knee jerkers can chill

    As Stevan says though, there are a few nasty surprises in terms of sand pits and serious corrugations. No, it cannot even be called corrugations any more.
    Last edited by lekhubu943; 2019/11/20 at 09:33 AM.
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  14. #3174
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    Default Re: Kgalagadi

    Quote Originally Posted by lekhubu943 View Post

    As Stevan says though, there are a few nasty surprises in terms of sand pits and serious corrugations. No, it cannot even be called corrugations any more.
    KTP always delivers the best. Now even the best corrugation roads.

    Do you remember that old road, the about 60 km before you enter the park, when it was still a gravel road. I think it was nominated the worst gravel road in South Africa.
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  15. #3175

    Default Re: Kgalagadi

    Quote Originally Posted by stevan View Post
    KTP always delivers the best. Now even the best corrugation roads.

    Do you remember that old road, the about 60 km before you enter the park, when it was still a gravel road. I think it was nominated the worst gravel road in South Africa.
    Lol indeed. Never drove the gravel road, it was tarred long before our first visit in 2010. But remnants of it can still be seen from the tar road. Looking at that, I can believe that it could be very bad. It must have been such a special adventure to go to the KTP with that road. One would really appreciate the park when you eventually get there.
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  16. #3176
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    Default Re: Kgalagadi

    In the old days there wasn’t even the tar road from Upington to Askham, so you had about 300km of gravel before you got to TR.

    You’re all spoilt now 🤣

  17. #3177
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    Default Re: Kgalagadi

    Quote Originally Posted by RobH View Post
    In the old days there wasn’t even the tar road from Upington to Askham, so you had about 300km of gravel before you got to TR.


    .........and if I remember correcty took about 6 hours minimum.

    My problem with heavily utilized, unsurfaced roads is that they deteriorate so rapidly and require regular grading and expensive regraveling. In areas the levels of some of the busier KNP roads are sinking lower and lower into the ground because of the repeated grading. These sunken roads make for very poor game viewing and it is these roads that become flooded during the sudden summer downpours. I woud have no problem with most of the KNP roads being tarred on the South African side, as long as they strictly controlled numbers and speeding.
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  18. #3178
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    Default Re: Kgalagadi

    Quote Originally Posted by RobH View Post
    In the old days there wasn’t even the tar road from Upington to Askham, so you had about 300km of gravel before you got to TR.

    You’re all spoilt now 🤣
    Thar is true
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  19. #3179
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    Default Re: Kgalagadi

    Just return from the park.Was at Nossop for 6 days lots of lions and not much raptors,very hot and very dry.

    What beats me is their booking reservation program.If you go to booking reservation Nossop camp site is full,but after closing time at the gates there is still plenty of camp sites open.

    Seems there is no communication between reservation department and the camp it self??

  20. #3180
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    Default Re: Kgalagadi

    Quote Originally Posted by tjarrie View Post
    Just return from the park.Was at Nossop for 6 days lots of lions and not much raptors,very hot and very dry.

    What beats me is their booking reservation program.If you go to booking reservation Nossop camp site is full,but after closing time at the gates there is still plenty of camp sites open.

    Seems there is no communication between reservation department and the camp it self??
    I have learned that they normally keep one campsite open, for an emergency. Normally without power. They use to have an emergency chalet as well, but because the shop was moved to unit 10, they do not have an extra unit at present. Suppose they will have one available after renovations to the shop.
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