Woman killed by a TOW BALL!!! - Page 6





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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by petermoffat View Post
    See, to me that's a bad thing. In the event something like this happens, I want the ball to break free from my vehicle!
    Peter,

    Rob wrote a very interesting post on this - see:

    http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/...t=92422&page=3 Post 43.

    According to his post and feedback - towballs were designed to break, specifically to protect the tow vehicle.
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  2. #102
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    I think the whole theory of designing a tow ball to break under certain conditions sounds to me a very bad idea, when still attatched to the tow vehicle the driver still has a chance to remain in control, but if the ball breaks, NOW WHAT, now you have a moving vehicle that can easy weigh 1.5 tons running dow a highway with nobody in control, all sorts of bad stuff is gona happen.

    On the point of recovery-points and tow balls.

    It is only recently that breaking tow balls have become a serious problem, and this is mostly due t the useage of kinetic-straps. The load ratings or even the quality of the balls is not the major isue, if you watch a snatch recovery you will see that the idea is to excelerate the pulling vehicle to be able to stretch the strap to max, once the strap reaches its full stretch it is supose to apply enough force to the other vehicle to get it to move and as it starts moving the strap releases all its contained energy to ensure that the stuck vehicle moves completely out of the trouble area.

    Now the major problem is shock-loads, depending on the run-up speed of the pulling vehicle, when the strap reaches full stretch and the other vehicle is not moving it jerks the pulling vehicle to a stop, there are obviously alot of variables that will influence this but for a 2200kg car traveling at +/- 10km/h this shock load can easily reach 18 tons (use tons cause of the rope ratings) now with a load like this something will break.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean Kotze View Post
    Peter,
    Very valid and important questions. There are unfortunately no hard and fast rules, and the answers are vehicle specific. You will have to consult the manufacturer in this regard. The chassis type, cross-bracing and tensile capacity will be the determining factor. What I have found to date (absolute minimum design specs):

    2. Use at least 5mm thick steel for the construction of the brackets. Brackets should preferably be made from a single piece of steel plate (avoid welding, unless it is done by a qualified welder). If the plate is to be used as a shackle eye it should be a minimum of 10mm thick.
    So are you going to admit that this is incorrect?

  4. #104
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    sheesh.

    I thought I'd been around and done enough damage control today, and here we have 'someone' advocating a hole drilled in a piece of 5x30mm flat bar and calling it a recovery point...

    scary stuff.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    sheesh.

    I thought I'd been around and done enough damage control today, and here we have 'someone' advocating a hole drilled in a piece of 5x30mm flat bar and calling it a recovery point...

    scary stuff.
    Who advocated that?
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  6. #106
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    A 4X4 newbie who was about to recover a typical holidaymaker in a 4X4 stranded on a local beach was using a bridle, I intervened to stop him before he started the recovery, his bridle was barely a metre long and after a chat he understood the advantage of dividing the the load but did not appreciate that with such a short bridle strung between the chassis rails that there was a distinct possiblity of pulling the rails towards each other and causing chassis damage. He decided to go ahead with the pull........me (left feeling that I should not have poked my nose in) just drove off and left him to it.

    regards

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  7. #107
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    Die foto van die tow bar geplaas deur Jean Kotze toon 4 klein boutjies wat die tow ball aan die tow bar wat seker weer aan die onderstel vasheg. Ek kan amper nie glo dat die 4 kleine boutjies sterk genoeg is om die tow ball veilig vas te hou nie.

    Normaalweg word die two bal darem deur 2 groot dik boute vasgebout.

    Moet iemand wat kundig is nie die miskien ondersoek en ook daarop kommentaar lewer nie?

  8. #108
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    Yes, that is always the big question. People that attach a ball & pin towball, but use small bolts. Then as soon as there is real strain, the bolts give.

    This is why the bridals are so important.
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  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean Kotze View Post
    Peter,
    Rob wrote a very interesting post on this - see:
    http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/...t=92422&page=3 Post 43.
    According to his post and feedback - towballs were designed to break, specifically to protect the tow vehicle.
    I read this post above and it is again based on someones opinion and not backed up with any real documentation. I simply do not believe that a towball is designed to break. If anyone has real proof that this is the case I would like to see it. There are just too many variables around this. I've seen a few accident scenes before where trailers and caravans were involved and never seen a broken towball or even one that has come off the hitch.

    A towball has definitely not been designed for snatch recoveries either and could well exceed the design parameters for the towball.

    It would be interesting to see at what point a conventional gooseneck type towball fails, a bolt on type ball fails and then any of the detachable type towbar/towball types fail.
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  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushcrazy View Post
    Die foto van die tow bar geplaas deur Jean Kotze toon 4 klein boutjies wat die tow ball aan die tow bar wat seker weer aan die onderstel vasheg. Ek kan amper nie glo dat die 4 kleine boutjies sterk genoeg is om die tow ball veilig vas te hou nie.

    Normaalweg word die two bal darem deur 2 groot dik boute vasgebout.

    Moet iemand wat kundig is nie die miskien ondersoek en ook daarop kommentaar lewer nie?
    Bushcrazy,

    Hou in gedagte dat dit 'n voorbeeld is van 'n tipiese towball wat nie vir recovery doeleindes gebruik moet word nie. Selfs al gebruik jy sterker boute. Jou waarneming is ook korrek dat sterker (groter diameter) boute gebruik moet word.
    Last edited by Jean Kotze; 2011/09/13 at 08:47 AM.
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  11. #111
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    further to my post above. Have a look at this test of a tow bar and the forces involved

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74hmsJ-9nMQ

    In both cases they are applying a huge force on the tow ball. the bolt on ball which is probably weaker than the goose-neck type. I think it is significant that the ball did not fail at 3000kg!!

    I reckon that the forces at work when doing a snatch recovery are much higer than we realize. The ball that killed the woman in th original post was probably similar to the type used in the test on the you tube clip and it didn't fail at 3000kg so the force must have been much higher. Secondly I still do not think these balls were designed to break!! There have been many serious injuries and death in cases where the tow-bar/tow-ball did fail and the trailer became detached.
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  12. #112
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    Damn! This is scary. I never thought of this before and on the 2 recoveries i helped with, I used the towbar. Never again will i do that...I'm glad i came accross this thread.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by ans View Post
    Damn! This is scary. I never thought of this before and on the 2 recoveries i helped with, I used the towbar. Never again will i do that...I'm glad i came accross this thread.
    I'm glad you found this thread!

  14. #114
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    been a while since there has been some naming and shaming of forum members doing towball recoveries!

    Used to be that every second week there would be someone with a beer in hand hooking the recovery strap over the towball, that was stupid enough to allow someone to take a picture of him doing it

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirk View Post
    I think we must copy this post, post it in the recovery forum, sticky and lock it, for future reference.
    True, and keep posting this type of info/warning as a constant reminder.

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  17. #116
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    With the warning and link in my signature, there is about 6000+ posts with a tow ball recovery warning

    And the warning will stay there.....forever.

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  19. #117
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    Default Purpose of the design.

    At the end it's all in the name...
    "TOW BALL" designed for towing. (Trailers, caravans or vehicles that can run freely behind your towing vehicle, something you can probably move around yourself)
    "RECOVERY POINTS" For recovering stuck vehicles that requires way more strength.
    NEVER USE A TOW BALL FOR RECOVERY!!! IT KILLS !!!

    Thanks for all the good advice and interesting debates.
    Last edited by Krappie.botha; 2015/07/14 at 08:37 AM.

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  21. #118
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    Default Re: Woman killed by a TOW BALL!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Henris View Post
    Yes, that is always the big question. People that attach a ball & pin towball, but use small bolts. Then as soon as there is real strain, the bolts give.

    This is why the bridals are so important.
    you could use 2 small stainless high tensile bolts say 12 mm which have a shear strength of 24000 Kg combined.
    A bigger bolt does not mean a stronger bolt, it is all in the grade of bolt.

  22. #119
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    Default Re: Woman killed by a TOW BALL!!!

    And their are two recent adverts on TV in which they use the tow ball for recovery purposes.

  23. #120
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    Default Re: Woman killed by a TOW BALL!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brave Dave View Post
    And their are two recent adverts on TV in which they use the tow ball for recovery purposes.
    Chill, they used it to tow/pull, not snatch. But we don't do that anyway.

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