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  1. #41
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    Question

    One plane one brain one altimeter one compas one map.....
    How is it now possible to fly into a moutain !!
    Now i is con blerry fused!?
    Use the surrounding countryside as it is in better condition than the road 8)
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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by muscle View Post
    One plane one brain one altimeter one compas one map.....
    How is it now possible to fly into a moutain !!
    Now i is con blerry fused!?
    Have you ever been in an light Aircraft with zero viz.

    Your brain tells you one story, your bum another story and the instruments yet another story.

    Flying at 100m/second, 10 seconds of disorientation puts you a kilometer closer to death. And you cant just sommer stop and check things out or ask for directions.
    Last edited by Fluffy; 2011/08/18 at 12:49 PM.
    Cheers

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  3. #43
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    Default

    Sqdn 21 was running HS125s up into the late '80s, 2 of them if I remember correctly. Very noisy. Are they still running these as well as the Falcons ZS-CAQ and ZS-CAS?

    Perhaps they have an archive (Sqdn 21) and can also provide more info
    Estee = S T = Sean Towlson, A Schrodingers Douche Bag GOF

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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike View Post
    Papsak don't get confused with Rhodes Memorial hey. That big monstrosity. The crash happened above there.
    Hi Spike,

    If the weather clears over the weekend (looks as though we are in for low cloud throughout) I will try and get a clear fix on the monument from my kitchen window - from your description of where the planes hit, the monument is not on the same spot, but higher up. If I remember correctly, it is to the right of Rhodes Mem (stage right, viewed from Mowbray) above Plumpudding Hill, ie to the right of the spur that comes down from Devil's Peak. I'll check it out and post on Sunday, as my home computer is not playing nicely with the forum for some strange reason.

  5. #45
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    Tony can't you smokkel some photos from the archives at work?
    * "Wat Spike probeer sÍ in sy min woorde" -Die Skim "
    .................................................. .....

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike View Post
    Tony can't you smokkel some photos from the archives at work?
    I'd love to, but the archive pix are split between the SA National Library and a store room in the building, where they are currently being indexed by a historian/librarian. Finding it would be a mission of epic proportions!

  7. #47
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    Here are two photos in this thread. http://www.saairforce.co.za/forum/vi...php?f=2&t=1000

    Another photo - http://www.flickr.com/photos/8270787@N07/4591744834/

    Here is a basic description of what went wrong and some discussion of the location - Just above Rhodes Memorial - http://www.microlighters.co.za/viewtopic.php?p=11729

    Newspaper discussion with more photos - http://www.aircooledvwsa.co.za/viewt...p?f=25&t=20689 Have a look at the small photo on the RH side - it has an X marking the spot.

    Here is a thread asking the same question you do - http://www.avcom.co.za/phpBB3/viewto...=80601&start=0
    Last edited by mygoggie; 2011/08/18 at 06:00 PM.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andre View Post
    Spike I remember it well. I think they were practicing for a Republic day festival fly past. The planes were called Mercurius IIRC.

    100% correct, i also remember that day , it was almost unbelievable, there was thick mist at the time.
    ORA
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  9. #49
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    Spike, why not try Louis Vosloo [email protected] or you can phone him on 021 464 7600 (work telephone number). He is very well know in flying circles in Cape Town and South Africa. He is also SA correspondent for a few oversees aero magazines. He may be able to assist you. He is a very keen and excellent photographer with a big collection of photographs, amongst others of crashed planes. He must have been around 19 years of age at the time and may possibly have what you are looking for.
    [LEFT]"Experience is simply the name we give our mistakes"
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    ]" The sad truth is that most evil is done by people who never make up their minds to be good or evil"
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  10. #50
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    Default paceman remembers

    Hi there,
    I was a medic at 2 Mil hospital at the time. We went up the mountain in Landie ambulances later that evening in the dark, found only burning wreakage. Next morning early some 20 medics, including myself, were lined up, injected, given a pep talk by the RSM and sent up the mountain to collect human remains only. We eventually spent two days on this mission and in fact one body was discovered much higher above the mountain some weeks later by a hiker. There are still two distinct holes in the mountain and i recall that some very thick pine trees to the right were chopped off clean at about 10meters up which would indicate that one plane sruck the trees and disintegrated without hitting the ground. This explains why nobody can find the third hole. Wreakage and human remains were strewed about 500 odd meters up from the crash site. Don't think it helpful to go into any more detail on that. When we had finished the airforce personnel moved in to collect aircraft pieces and do their work.
    Some weeks later the medics involved were bundled into a bus and taken to Ysterplaat where we were given the most aweaome ride in a Dakota around the entire peninsula for about 90 minutes. Reason was to say thanks and to rid us of fear of flying hopefully.

  11. #51
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    there seems to be some confusion about the exact location. If you take the top De Waal drive to the city and turn off at the shooting range, follow that gravel road, then you eventually come out at the site. We did this in our ambulances. Alt. if you take the path up from Rhodes Memorial you also come out at the exact site. From the last few meters of this path you will see the two dents in the mountain on your left. The memorial is higher up and not even close to the inpact area. The impact site is some 10 meters below the contour path with most of the wreakage endind up on the path itself.
    I personally came across a complete jet engine in the undergrouth some 300 meters above the contour path. My friend and i mischieviously youthfull and not aware of the seriousness of what had happened decided not to tell anyone of this awesome find and thought that it might be nice to have one and take it apart to see what was inside. I recall us sitting under the trees discussing how we could carry it home...end of memory. Needless to say the airforce people found it and took it first.

  12. #52
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    Thanks Paceman. From the horses moth so to speak

    I seem to recall photos of wreckage that looked as if it was up at the hairpin bend just below the blockhouse. I remember recognising the fence and the "style" that used to be there. I always assumed that the third plane landed up there.
    * "Wat Spike probeer sÍ in sy min woorde" -Die Skim "
    .................................................. .....

  13. #53
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    Just a few facts.

    At the time of this accident GPS and other modern equipment had not been invented yet and would not have been of use in the particular circumstances anyhow.

    Weather radar as fitted to aircraft are not suitable for terrain avoidance.

    Ysterplaat did not have search radar and although DF Malan had, they were not in control of the military traffic at the time.

    At the time there were many aircraft in the sky with predetermined well calculated and timed flightpaths designed for visual flying conditions.

    What went wrong was the fact that the weather was unsuitable for an event that should have been cancelled.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Africa View Post
    Pilot error is the MAIN cause of air crashes.

    More of them are weather related than any other cause.

    The thing that gets you, is called impatience. It is terribly hard to sit on the ground waiting for the weather to clear when you have a long way to go and you are in a hurry (and you are optimistc (maybe its a bit better up there, it will be OK).

    Virtually the same thing happend couple of years ago near Hoadspruit. Pilot did not want to take off. His important customer put prassure on him (i.e. I have to get back to the Free state by ....). Pilot took of against his better judgement, and half a dozen people died when he flew into a mountain.

    C
    If it is Johan Diedericks you are talking about, he and his girlfriend took off from Nelspruit and in bad weather on the way he misjudged and flew into the moutain near Gods Whindow. No one knows why he turned left insted of goig east to avoid the clouds and mist. The altetude of those mountains are between 1500m - 2000m. Sadly they were good friends of mine and also lived here in Kampersrus against the Mountain.

  15. #55
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    Default Some facts about the crash on Devil's Peak

    I was a young Shackleton pilot in those days and was the Squadron Standard Bearer for this parade. The actual facts of this mishap were as follows. The planner of the air side of this parade was Kmdt Mickey Lamb. Due to the number of different types and speeds of aircraft taking part in the flypast over the Saluting diaz, as well as the relatively short time spacing between the various formations overhead the diaz, certain aircraft were tasked to turn right towards Table Mountain. The speed of the aircraft in formation and the degree of bank required for the turn were all carefully calculated so that after a 180 degre turn the formation would clear the mouuntain by one nautical mile. This route was flown by the same three aircraft on previous practice sessions with no problems whatsoever. On this particular day and due to semi-inclement weather conditions, the formations flying over the diaz were experiencing excessive turbulence and these particular three HS125 type aircraft were finding it very difficult to maintain position in the formation at the speed they were tasked to use. Just after passing over the diaz, the leader of the formation requested to increase the formation speed by forty knots to make the position keeping of his wingmen easier especially as they were turning into low cloud and one needs to sit tightly in formation under such conditions. This was granted. However no-one at that instant even thought of the impact this would have on the radius of turn. The formation continued to turn at the practiced rate of bank which should have taken them well clear of the mountain as practiced in clear weather. It was this small oversight that caused the aircraft to impact with the mountain. With the loss of another gruop of people this last week-end as a result of the same CFIT (Controlled Flight Into Terrain) this just emphasises what happens when thorough planning before a flight including all the "What If's" are not considered before a flight takes place and even during the flight itself. Being fallible human beings I am sure this will happen again sometime. In an aircraft you cannot pull over and recalculate before proceeding and very few aircraft in the world even today have the instrumentation to warn you of the marshmallow ahead with a hard center! Hope this info will help with all the questions out there

  16. #56
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    Thanks Bernieblunt! Excellent factual explanation that make eminent sense. I was 11 at the time, remember it well, since my dad took us to view all the Republic Day stuff, which was very exciting for a plaasjapie!

  17. #57
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    Default

    Thanks so much for all of this information, particularly Bernieblunt. I was in my early twenties at the time and remember that tragedy very well. I have always wondered what happened to cause that crash.
    On a similar topic, does anyone remember a Shakleton crash somewhere in the Worcester mountains, probably in the early sixties. I remember it because the father of a close school-boy friend was killed in it - his surname was Sculley. My friend's mother was secretary at our school (Plumstead High) and it was a very sad day for the entire school. I have always wondered what happened that day. A friend of mine was hiking in the mountains in that area a few years ago and found large parts of that plane which are almost certainly still there.

  18. #58
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    Default Air crash

    Hi Spike

    I too was a youngster, around 17. I was on Tafelberg road at the time of the crash.
    The story I remember was they were training for some presedential fly past. They were flying south to north and supposed to be following the M5 instead they followed the M3. If they had followed the M5 there would have been space to follow the left curve of the road but because it was the M3 they were too close to the mountain and connected it. It was 3 Mercurius executive jets with a total of 11 on board.
    If you drove to the end of Tafelberg road then walked on the gravel to about above Rhodes mem that is were it was. They hit slightly lower than the road but the wreckage flew up on the road. I still went there a few days later when there were still bits of wire and parts in the trees.

    Hope this was a little help

  19. #59
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    It seems the general consensus is that the site is at the upper mark that I had made on my picture that I uploaded which tallies with my childhood memories and guestimation from fodies. That hairpin bend meets THE contour path and I assume that it's the same contour path that Paceman was referring to
    Next time I'm there I'll take another peep below the road
    Thanks everybody
    * "Wat Spike probeer sÍ in sy min woorde" -Die Skim "
    .................................................. .....

  20. #60
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    Hi Spike,

    I took a hike up to what I thought was the memorial on Saturday. To my embarassment, what I have always thought to be the memorial (the "mini Taal monument") turns out to be the flying butresses of the ruins of an old house! So I checked on my Slingsby map of Table Mountain, and I don't see any mention of a memorial or monument, but there is a "plaque" marked on Pete's map, about 80m due west of the 436m trig beacon immediately below the King's Blockhouse, and on the 400m contour.

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