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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Africa View Post
    Frans,

    in the Tzaneen case, it could either have been an altimeter error (these instruments rely on air pressure, and a sudden change in pressure can cause you to be out by a lot of height).

    C
    Why aren't GPS sets used in these older plains? They tel the altitude immediately.
    No one ever ruined their eyesight by looking at the BRIGHT side!!
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike View Post
    Papsak could you maybe post a picture from Google Earth showing the location of the memorial? Pretty please
    I've trapped that mountain flat (with my blinkers on) and never noticed one.
    Trying to install google earth now... surely I can't be THAT confused Tony?
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  3. #23
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    The only blip on google earth that looks like it might be a monument is right over to the left low down just behind UCT. That seems like the wrong location from what I've researched
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  4. #24
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    Reading thru this link http://www.avcom.co.za/phpBB3/viewto...5fbb7&start=15

    post 24
    To find the crash site, park at Rhodes memorial and head upward untill you reach a jeep track about halfway between the parking and the Kings block House. Head right on the jeep track on a gentle slope and follow it to the top of Plumpudding hill (trig beacon) and a view point. Look for a path following the ridge upward (quite clear). As was previously mentioned the area has many silver trees and quite thick fynbos.
    About halfway between the Block house and the top of Plumpudding hill down to the left is what was the crash site. If you comb carefully you might be able to find the scars of one of the impacts. (If I remember correctly from visiting the site after the crash it appeared as only two impact zones, maybe something to do with the formation flying.
    Google earth shows this "trail" very clearly.
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  5. #25
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    Fodie attached showing Plumpudding hill which was the altitude of their approach, plus my guestimation of the impact of Plane 3 based on memories of photos seen years ago, and in the lower left corner are to things that look like they could be memorials. If so then it seems that they are placed at a general area and not the points of impact according to stuff I've researched
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	crash site.jpg 
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Size:	100.4 KB 
ID:	109160  
    Last edited by Spike; 2011/08/18 at 10:42 AM.
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  6. #26
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    Ja, I must be confused.... BTW why do you refer to Rhodes Memorial as "That big monstrosity"
    Thanks for the Fodie
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  7. #27
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    Uys, it is actually protocal to fly at least 1000ft higher than the highest point in your immediate area AT ALL TIMES.

    The things here were:

    1 CT, the people were practicing for an air show, and obviously were not flying "normal" flight rules.
    2 Tzaneen, the pilots took off in bad weather to climb to a cruise altitude. Obviously they planned a route to miss obstacles during their climb. Which is why I say, they either deviated from route OR they had wrong info on their instruments.

    GPS, quite correct, your GPS will give you the CORRECT altitude, problem is you have to navigate to the specific screen to check that, and in this instance the pilot would have been extremely busy monitoring his other flight instruments, no time to "fiddle" with the GPS.

    The GPS also has a "low terrain" warning system which comes up if you're flying closer than certain level to obstacles, BUT this warning would have been going off continuously from liftoff until they reach altitude above higherst peak, so the pilots would have ignored it, KNOWING that they were low, and relying on their dead reckoning to fly safely.

    C
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Africa View Post
    .
    2 Tzaneen, the pilots took off in bad weather to climb to a cruise altitude. Obviously they planned a route to miss obstacles during their climb. Which is why I say, they either deviated from route OR they had wrong info on their instruments.

    GPS, quite correct, your GPS will give you the CORRECT altitude, problem is you have to navigate to the specific screen to check that, and in this instance the pilot would have been extremely busy monitoring his other flight instruments, no time to "fiddle" with the GPS.

    The GPS also has a "low terrain" warning system which comes up if you're flying closer than certain level to obstacles, BUT this warning would have been going off continuously from liftoff until they reach altitude above higherst peak, so the pilots would have ignored it, KNOWING that they were low, and relying on their dead reckoning to fly safely.

    C
    As I sums it up, don't fly in bad weather!
    No one ever ruined their eyesight by looking at the BRIGHT side!!
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frans Reichert View Post
    As I sums it up, don't fly in bad weather!
    Pilot error is the MAIN cause of air crashes.

    More of them are weather related than any other cause.

    The thing that gets you, is called impatience. It is terribly hard to sit on the ground waiting for the weather to clear when you have a long way to go and you are in a hurry (and you are optimistc (maybe its a bit better up there, it will be OK).

    Virtually the same thing happend couple of years ago near Hoadspruit. Pilot did not want to take off. His important customer put prassure on him (i.e. I have to get back to the Free state by ....). Pilot took of against his better judgement, and half a dozen people died when he flew into a mountain.

    C
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  10. #30
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    spike in combo with your pick and the quote i reffered to earlier

    I got this as more ar less the area. Possible?

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by CoenraadB; 2011/08/18 at 10:54 AM.
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  11. #31
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    .
    Last edited by CoenraadB; 2011/08/18 at 10:54 AM.
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  12. #32
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    That's exactly what I thought Coenraad but Tony's reference to a memorial confuses me because I haven't seen anything there.
    EVERY SINGLE TIME I go to that area (over the last 40 years) I find a spot to survey the area and try to picture the scenario. And I ain't seen a memorial yet in that particular area.
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  13. #33
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    When I grew up I read quite a bit on aviation. On a few ocasions the Table mountain crash were mentiond in books like Africa's Superpower etc. At some stage there was an article in Nyala, the SAAF's Aviation Safety Magazine. Before I left the SAAF, in 2005 IIRC I converted quite a bit of Buccannner footage for the then upcoming Buccanner reunion http://www.af.mil.za/news/2005/24.htm

    During this process I had long chats with a colonell that used to work in the same directorate as me. He took quite a bit of the original 16mm film of the squandron. Included in there were prior footage of some of his squadron mates. As we watched the footage he remarked on some that were flying as passengers in a Mercurius that day and perished in the crash. He himself was flying in a Buccanner as navigator and he recalled that as they approched Goodwood stadium the visibility decreased dramatically and they aborted towards the left, the Mercurius formation was in front of them and veered right, impacting the mountain. If one would seek more information it would always be possible to request if via the Access to Information act from the Air Force's Directorate Aviation Safety
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  15. #34
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    I just found this Info if it helps:

    Those who perished included Commandant LAS Henning,
    Major GJ Euvrard, Major N Beetge, Major WA Prinsloo, Major HHAMC Lamoral, Captain D du Plessis Lombard, Lance-Corporal E Hays, Private GH Wassermann, Captain GN Snyman, Major MC de G Genis and Corporal RN Grobler.

    *Major "Willa" Prinsloo had survived a plane crash in the sea off Cape Columbine as a spotting pax two years earlier and had tried to save the life of the Pilot, Aubrey Clews, then spent two hours in the cold Atlantic before rescue by a fishing vessel.

    * Renier Grobler played for the Northern Transvaal Rugby Team and accompanied the Springboks on the 1969-1970 UK tour

  16. #35
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    & this - it mentions Impalas

  17. #36
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    This photo is at the place marked "3" on my photo
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/warrenski/1324473370/


    The bottom photo here is just above the other spot, The road make a hairpin and cuts back to the right. That is this spot. The trees aren't there today. The tree nazi's cut them down but that is another story
    Last edited by Spike; 2011/08/18 at 11:22 AM.
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  18. #37
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    Another Photo - notice the fence in the photo

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/warrens...n/photostream/

  19. #38
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    It doesnt appear that a memorial has been erected, as at last year. On of the sons of the pilots is here

  20. #39
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    We will never know, but it might be that the guys, all coming from the relative flat north, forgot that there is a mountain in Cape Town when the increased speed for the turn.

    I'm no flight expert so please accept any ignorance.
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  21. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uys View Post
    C Africa.

    Why is it not protocol to fly much higher in poor visibility. IE, visibility goed down, increase altitude with 1km.

    Uys
    That is what you should do! People take chances (won't happen to me) Two of my good mates flew into a mountain close to Tzaneen in a Impala. Think it was 1989. We were flying there everyday and knew the area well. They were flying low level with low cloud in a mountainous area - not a good combination. They should not have been out doing low level flying in that weather.

    A lot of private pilots are not instrument rated and therefore can't fly in clouds. A person would fly somewhere for the weekend in their plane, they don't have a instrument rating, on Sunday the weather is bad and he has to work on Monday. Now the pressure is on to fly home. They fly back trying to stay below the clouds. Most of them make it - some don't.
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