Defender HELP!! Defender TD5 fuel line problem...





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  1. #1
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    Default HELP!! Defender TD5 fuel line problem...

    Hi All,

    We've been on the road for two months now on a road trip through southern africa in our td5 defender. We took the car in a few days ago for a sheduled minor service and now the car is turning but it won't start! Originally we thought the problem was with the fuel filter and the system had an airlock, as the fuel pump sounded normal and the pressure of fuel to the engine seemed fine. We fitted a brand new fuel filter and have tried all the priming techniques listed on the Land Rover forums. We are now being told the fuel pump has failed, as the pressure of fuel getting to the filter is very weak. But the fuel pump was replaced just before we left (with a brand new genuine pump!).

    Could it be possible that the fuel pump has failed due to continuous priming of the fuel line? Has anyone had a similar problem? we'd really appreciate any advice!!!

  2. #2
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    Eeish!! You took the Landie in for a routine service? The car was running perfectly and now it won't start. When replacing the fuel filter did they prime the injectors. Do you know how to prime the injectors?
    Come back to me pse.
    Take care
    Take Care
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    Peter Street

  3. #3
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    Thanks for your quick reply!

    I have been on the phone to the mechanic and he says that after replacing the fuel filter they bled the fuel line as per the workmans manual and the car started fine. It was left to idle and then it died and they have not been able to start it since. (This has happened to me before but the vehicle has always started on the third or fourth time we bled it)

    They thought the problem could be the new fuel filter (unlikely right?) so they replaced it with another new one (Bearmach) but still no luck. They say they have not touched the injectors. Any advice on this? Is this a procedure that your mechanic with average knowledge could do? They now say the fuel pump is not supplying the fuel at the right pressure (but it was doing so yesterday...very strange...)

    I arranged a mechanic from CMC ( The Kenyan Land rover dealership) to come and have a look and he says it is the pump...

    My question is this: Could the fuel pump have been damaged due to constant cranking of the engine even though they say they had done the correct self bleeding procedures?

    I find it very alarming that a new pump ( 6 weeks old, 8 thousand k's later) has packed up when before the service it was working fine...

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by TC.kenya View Post
    Thanks for your quick reply!

    I have been on the phone to the mechanic and he says that after replacing the fuel filter they bled the fuel line as per the workmans manual and the car started fine. It was left to idle and then it died and they have not been able to start it since. (This has happened to me before but the vehicle has always started on the third or fourth time we bled it)

    They thought the problem could be the new fuel filter (unlikely right?) so they replaced it with another new one (Bearmach) but still no luck. They say they have not touched the injectors. Any advice on this? Is this a procedure that your mechanic with average knowledge could do? They now say the fuel pump is not supplying the fuel at the right pressure (but it was doing so yesterday...very strange...)

    I arranged a mechanic from CMC ( The Kenyan Land rover dealership) to come and have a look and he says it is the pump...

    My question is this: Could the fuel pump have been damaged due to constant cranking of the engine even though they say they had done the correct self bleeding procedures?

    I find it very alarming that a new pump ( 6 weeks old, 8 thousand k's later) has packed up when before the service it was working fine...
    When you turn the key on does the pump whine and for how long. Did you buy the pump from the LR dealers. Should still be under warranty.Please ask them to swop the fuel pump relay. It is one of the yellow ones with the AUX relay. If the injectors are bled properly the engine management light comes on during the process and if the pump is shot the individual pumps on each injector should get the vehicle to start. Did they remove any fuel lines at the filter housing. The could have mixed up the return line with the feed line. Firstly does the pump whine.
    Take Care
    Stay frosty (Be alert at all times: We Live in a war zone)

    Peter Street

  5. #5
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    TCKenya. I repaired the fuel guage sender on the fuel pump in my TD5, and after re fitting, bled the system according to the manual and then started. She ran for about 5 seconds then died. Could not re start. After much gnashing of teeth, I used booster cables from another vehicle, floored the throttle and held it there. The Landy cranked and started spluttering, and started firing on cylinder by cylinder. I am convinced that the problem was low voltage to the ECU on cranking, even though it sounded fine when cranking. I am aware that when the voltage to the ECU drops to a certain level (This could happen when cranking on a batt that is not fully charged) the ECU stops working. Give it a try. Nothing to loose. Regards
    Edwin
    Defender '99 TD5 Pick Up
    Rock sliders, Spare wheel carrier, Roof Rack, Aluminium canopy, Tentco RTT, Tentco Awning, 280Ah Dual batteries, 3 x Sliding Drawers, Water tank, Hot Shower, Kitchen

  6. #6
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    Your concerns regarding the pump - I'd say it is highly unlikely that it should fail due to the bleeding process. If you hear it, it should still be fine.

    I would consider 2 possibilities. Dirt either at the pump side or at the regulator.
    After all the cranking also check the battery / try starting with a boost battery.

    Keep us posted.
    Driven by passion
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  7. #7
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    Yes, the pump whines when you turn the key. I tried the bleeding techniques myself yesterday morning and the pump sounded normal, however when the CMC mechanic had a look at the landy yesterday afternoon he said the pump was making an unusual sound, it was quieter. We purchased the current pump from Savoy Motors in Port Elizabeth who are a recognised land Rover dealership.

    The workshop say they have already checked the relays but whether they swopped them and then tried i am not sure...Would a faulty relay have something to do with the pump not supplying adequate fuel? Or would it simply stop the pump working all together?

    The mechanic has basically given up and suggested we buy a new pump but i am not satisfied with his advice...They have already removed the tank and pump without consulting me.

    In your opinion would it be worth putting it all back and we go over the steps again?

    Thank you for your help on this!

    Tom

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    Quote Originally Posted by TC.kenya View Post
    Yes, the pump whines when you turn the key. I tried the bleeding techniques myself yesterday morning and the pump sounded normal, however when the CMC mechanic had a look at the landy yesterday afternoon he said the pump was making an unusual sound, it was quieter. We purchased the current pump from Savoy Motors in Port Elizabeth who are a recognised land Rover dealership.

    The workshop say they have already checked the relays but whether they swopped them and then tried i am not sure...Would a faulty relay have something to do with the pump not supplying adequate fuel? Or would it simply stop the pump working all together?

    The mechanic has basically given up and suggested we buy a new pump but i am not satisfied with his advice...They have already removed the tank and pump without consulting me.

    In your opinion would it be worth putting it all back and we go over the steps again?

    Thank you for your help on this!

    Tom
    Hi Tom
    Are these guys legit. Or are they just trying to sell you a new pump. If the pump is whineing then the electrics are working and the only way to prove that the pressure is low is to correctly measure it at the fuel cooler. I don't believe that the injectors have been bled properly. I would insist that they restore the vehicle. Before they do it.Check the contents in the tank and the condition of the pump gauze see if it is clogged with muck.They must be very carefull with pump seal and dont't pinch it. Also the plastic pipes going into the pump are very brittle and can break easily. MAKE sure all the fuel pipes are in the correct position. If they had to look up in the manual to bleed the injectors. Then I am nervous is this their first TD5.
    What you need to do restore the vehicle back to status quo. Get a fully charged battery and with GOOD jumper leads. Do a five key reset!!! Turn the key on and off 5 times. Then turn the key once then off then on again and this time pump the accelerator pedala couple of times. The engine management light should come on and you will hear the injectors self priming.With the new battery connected crank that motor until it fires. Each injector has its own 22kpsi pump and if your tank pump is shot it should still start or flutter.
    Another thing to check is to pull off the fuel supply to the heater/cooler and switch the key on see what pressure you are getting. The diesel should spurt out.Also check under the drivers seat as the have been in there and check the big blue fuse 100amp and make sure that the cables are plugged into the ECU correctly. Do you know whether they have a diagnostic computer.
    When a vehicle drives in for a minor service and then this sort of thing happens then the problem is more like HUMAN than mechanical.
    TRY IT
    Take Care
    Take Care
    Stay frosty (Be alert at all times: We Live in a war zone)

    Peter Street

  9. #9
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    Tom, follow the advice above it's spot on. These guys have an obligation to get you going again, and first they should get the proper diagnostics read. If they don't have the equipment they should steal or borrow full stop. Their name could be mentioned on the best 4x4 forum !!!

    I'd also go with human error, so you need to backtrack what they did.
    Driven by passion
    Jakes 071 9855 258

  10. #10
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    I also think your pump is shot, caused by the reasons you suspect - trying to bleed the system with the pump possibly RUNNING DRY.
    My Swambo was able to trash a very young Td5 fuel pump by running out of diesel too often. Td5 in-tank fuel pumps dont like running dry.
    Ask that mechanic to fit the new pump on condition you can pay him if and when it sorts the problem. New pump - same problem - no pay.
    ROWAN.

    1989 Land Rover 110 V8 CSW
    MANTO. 'cos she's black and she suips
    8)

  11. #11
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    i don't believe a pump will get damaged that quickly. it is cooled by the fuel and as long as there is enough fuel in the tank, it should not overheat.
    it is a 2 stage pump with a low pressure side and a high pressure side.
    the low pressure side should almost always have fuel in it while the high pressure side bleeds out the air.
    dirt may have managed to get past the filter so some inexplicable reason but should them have been trapped in the sieve at the pump.
    worst case is it got into the fuel pressure regulator.

    i would :
    1) remove the diesel filter, tip it over and check if there is anything funny that comes out
    2) apply a lubricant to the seal before refitting the filter and ensure it seals tightly without damaging the seal. do not fit with a tool. a two hand grip is almost too much for a filter.
    3) ensure the drain plug at the base of the filter is screwed in properly.

    check if they have not possibly dislodged the injector harness plug at the base of the head at the front of the head. remove, inspect pins (ensure none are bent), clean with electrical cleaner (petrol or carb cleaner if no electrical cleaner available), plug in, bleed as per procedure. (on for 1 minute, off, on for 1 minute, off, on for 1 minute, floor the pedal and swing.

    Land Rovers never die, they simply become organ donors!

  12. #12
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    Thank you all very much...we're in the process of checking all the steps mentioned above. Will keep you posted!

  13. #13
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    Looks like we're replacing the fuel pump...the low pressure valve is working, but nothing is coming out of the high pressure valve, and there is no blockage in the pipes. They changed the filter and bled the system without touching the fuel pump or injectors. The tank is clean, the battery is fully charged, so it has to be Sod's Law that they replaced the filter and the pump packed up at the same time coincidently. Any final suggestions? Thank you all for the help! Tom

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by TC.kenya View Post
    Looks like we're replacing the fuel pump...the low pressure valve is working, but nothing is coming out of the high pressure valve, and there is no blockage in the pipes. They changed the filter and bled the system without touching the fuel pump or injectors. The tank is clean, the battery is fully charged, so it has to be Sod's Law that they replaced the filter and the pump packed up at the same time coincidently. Any final suggestions? Thank you all for the help! Tom
    Hi Tom
    It that turns out to be the case then pack that pump up into the new pump box and post it back to savoy pe for a warranty refund. That is if it was a geniune Land Rover part.
    Take Care
    Stay frosty (Be alert at all times: We Live in a war zone)

    Peter Street

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