Diesel Buyers Beware





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  1. #1
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    Exclamation Diesel Buyers Beware

    Most members are probably not aware of the problems we are encountering with newer Diesel engines.
    Our diesel is made to 2007 specs. Since 2007 nearly all engines require clean diesel. Most of our diesel is 500ppm sulfur content and our "low Sulfur" is 50ppm - and still not available in many parts of our country.
    Newer engines actually require 10ppm diesel which is not available here at all! Before you buy ask Toyota what fuel the new model requires - in writing.
    Bottom line - If you buy a new R1M+ Landcruiser V8 diesel you cannot use 500ppm diesel - which means you can't leave South Africa!
    Not even 50ppm is made here - it is all imported. The fuel companies have been forced to produce clean diesel worldwide - except here. They are messing around adding extra pumps and tanks at petrol stations to seel both 500ppm and 50ppm. No vehicles require 500ppm so they should simply take 500ppm off the market and use existing tanks and pumps to sell 50ppm.
    The manufacturers and fuel companies are keeping quiet but the consequences to engines and warrantys is extremely serious!

    This is a very real problem for all newer diesel vehicles.

    Please read the link below-
    http://www.focusontransport.co.za/fe...dard-fuel.html

    Ignition TV will have a special program for this topic soon based on my research.
    I have lots more info if anyone is interested.

    4X4 buyers should consider petrol engines until this problem is resolved.
    Al
    2013 Pajero GLX 3.2 DID

  2. #2
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    Actually not all true.

    All the Scania, Volvo, MB, Renault, VW, etc trucks that run cross border are all in the same boat. It is not the sulphur that kills the injectors, it is the grit in out fuel.

    Now some of the manufacturers have upgraded their filtration systems to 1-2micron to filter out all this fine grit (about 7-10micron), but the others have left you with the can. The reason the trucks have upgraded their filtration systems is that they are offering 3yrs unconditional mileage warranties. So for them it is cheaper to just upgrade the filtration, than to struggle with failures on the motor. A sick injector can easily burn a hole in a piston.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlSpaeth View Post
    Bottom line - If you buy a new R1M+ Landcruiser V8 diesel you cannot use 500ppm diesel - which means you can't leave South Africa!
    What is the main concern about using 500ppm in a modern Diesel?

    The biggest negatives I know of is the extra sooth in the exhaust gasses and possibly blockages in the EGR systems due this issue. Also contamination of the engine oil by the additional sulfur - preventing longer service intervals.
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    You are right Cobus.
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    I read in the sa4x4 mag that we should add with every 2nd tank a can of 200 ml two stroke oil ; i am doing it but wrt the injectors does this practice help

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    A little. The filtration is the cure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobus2.5DID View Post
    What is the main concern about using 500ppm in a modern Diesel?
    The biggest negatives I know of is the extra sooth in the exhaust gasses and possibly blockages in the EGR systems due this issue. Also contamination of the engine oil by the additional sulfur - preventing longer service intervals.
    How will this influence a service/maintenance plan, seeing that it will require more frequent oil and filter changes than recommended by the manufacturer ?

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    High sulpher diesel kills engine enternal parts as well as the components after the combustions process, like VVTs, EGRs and CATS.High sulphur diesels produce sulphur oxides on combustion which, when dissolved in the other by-product of combustion – water - form strong acids. When these acids condense they attack the metal surfaces of valve guides, cylinder liners and bearings. The acids produced are neutralised by the engine lubricant and, in doing so, reduce the working life of the lubricant necessitating shorter drain intervals.
    Dirty diesel kill injectors and injector pumps, more so the high pressure pumps on common rail systems andd the unit injectors like in the TD5 motor.Modern diesel engines are more susceptible to fuel contamination than ever before. Injection pressures can be as high as 50,000psi with dynamic clearances in injectors of 2.5 micron and getting smaller. What this in effect means is vast numbers of particles are passing through pumps and injector tips causing erosive wear and increasing nozzle hole size. This leads to larger fuel drop sizes and dirt particles becoming trapped in the mating surfaces of the sealing areas of the injector tips, keeping them apart. Leaking and dribbling subsequently occur. Wear between barrel and piston occurs sometimes, resulting in seizure or reduced injection pressure and poor atomisation. Gums and resins in the fuel will coat fuel injector lines, pumps and injectors and will interfere with the close tolerances of the fuel system’s moving parts.
    A lot of this damage you as driver can prevent - fill up with 50ppm, fit better fuel filter systems ect.
    The other major killer of fuel systems that you find, and you have to actually have a test kit with when filling up to prevent damage, is the petrol and other fuels they mix with diesel to maximise profit ect both locally and up in the rest of Africa.This has several adverse effects that the cleanest diesel and best filters cannot prevent, such as loss of lubrication, viscosity and cetane number,manifesting itself in leaking plungers and seals, premature ignition, engine knock and pump and injector wear. All lead to inevitable failure of valves, turbochargers, pistons, rings and bearings.

    I work a lot with WEARCHECK on heavy machines, and a lot of the information above was published in one of there bullitens to their customers.
    Last edited by Boggom; 2011/06/20 at 03:13 PM.


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    Basically the vehicle manufacturers in SA has been pushing/begging goverment and the fuel industry to improve the quality of our fuel (diesel and petrol) for years, because we cannot sell the best new technology engines here due to the poor fuel quality. It's certainly in our manufacturer's best interest to be able to offer the best and latest, but due to the enormous cost of changing/upgrading their refineries, the fuel industry has always been slow to change.

    Henry

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    Quote Originally Posted by Henryv View Post
    Basically the vehicle manufacturers in SA has been pushing/begging goverment and the fuel industry to improve the quality of our fuel (diesel and petrol) for years, because we cannot sell the best new technology engines here due to the poor fuel quality. It's certainly in our manufacturer's best interest to be able to offer the best and latest, but due to the enormous cost of changing/upgrading their refineries, the fuel industry has always been slow to change.

    That is one of the biggest reasons why I do not want to buy the new V9X Navara. That engine needs 50ppm - so I can not travel out of SA with it.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Boggom View Post
    That is one of the biggest reasons why I do not want to buy the new V9X Navara. That engine needs 50ppm - so I can not travel out of SA with it.
    Unfortunately I can only see this problem getting bigger into the future, as we move further ahead of other African countries with our fuel and adopt more severe emission standards. Manufacturers will have to sell more advanced engines locally, and fewer will be compatible to the fuel available in neighbouring countries.

    Henry

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    I repeat. Filtration is the key.

    The refineries are not doing it. OEM is not doing it. So it is up to us to do it ourselves.
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    Unhappy

    Sasol is the only supplier to produce 10ppm diesel as required in new engines. Our engines are all imported and 10ppm is required. Fuel companies were force to produce and supply 10ppm fuel sice 2008.

    http://www.miningweekly.com/article/...uel-2010-10-22

    Motor comapnies cannot import 2007 engines in 2011 vehicles but they are keeping quiet. Some truck/bus manufacturers use Euro 3 engines. New Mercedes ML engines can use 500ppm ONCE - second time the computer shuts the engine down.

    Why are we paying emissions tax on new vehicles here when we can't get the fuel they need to reduce emissions?

    Our government is to blame. It is a worldwide situation. The oil companies have made untold billions due to the high oil prices in the past decade. Say we "can't afford to upgrade our refineries in South Africa" is not acceptable. Otherwise, shut down the refineries and import the fuel we need. Stop wasting money "upgrading" petrol stations with new pumps and tanks. Stop selling the 500ppm rubbish they produce here and sell 50ppm only. No engine requires 500ppm diesel. We are still at Euro 2 level, a 16-year-old standard. Why have our four refineries not been upgraded?

    Most of the damage to you 4X4 will come after the warranty expires. My wife has a Merc E270cdi (same engine was used in the ML 4X4). In Europe, they are used as taxis and they get a million kilometers from the original engines. Here, you can expect problems after 100,000km - and we all know how expensive diesel engines are to repair. Yet Mercedes and many others continue to import 2011 models with Euro 5 engines and seel them to you based on economy but say nothing about our diesel or life expentancy - because they are making money from out of warranty repairs.

    Read quote below from:

    http://www.focusontransport.co.za/fe...dard-fuel.html

    Engines, fuel systems, and catalytic converters (emmision control systems) are all damaged by Sulfur. It becomes Sulfuric Acid.

    What can happen to your vehicle? Extracts from the fourth edition of the worldwide fuel charter explain how sulphur levels in fuel can affect your vehicles. “Sulphur occurs naturally in crude oil. If the sulphur is not removed during the refining process, it will contaminate vehicle fuel. Sulphur can have a significant effect on engine life. As levels increase, relative engine life decreases. Diesel fuel sulphur also contributes significantly to fine particulate matter (PM) emissions, through the formation of sulphates in the exhaust stream which are then emitted into the atmosphere,” it states
    “Sulphur can lead to corrosion and wear of engine systems. Furthermore the efficiency of some exhaust after-treatment systems is reduced as fuel sulphur content increases, while others are rendered permanently ineffective through sulphur poisoning,” says Crookes.
    Vehicles fitted with diesel particulate filters (DPFs), and which use high-sulphur diesel, tend to block quicker. They need to regenerate more often which reduces their lifespan. (The regeneration process is when the injectors inject into the exhaust stoke of the motor – the fuel burns in the DPF and the carbon deposits are flashed off.)
    Crookes says that engines below Euro 5 specifications use diesel fuel with high sulphur content (500 ppm) and that they emit high levels of nitric oxide (NOx) exhaust gases. This is detrimental to the environment and human health.
    “Using local fuel in a Euro 5 engine will have a harmful effect on the high precision fuel-injection system that will result in premature failure of these components and result in repair costs. This, in turn, can cause damage to other engine components due to fuel dilution of the lubricating oil. Local fuel will also have an adverse effect on the combustion process resulting in higher exhaust emission levels and an increase in fuel consumption,” elaborates Crookes.
    Environmental laws in SA only comply to Euro 3 as we are unable to comply with Euro 5 emission regulations. Euro 5 engines not only run cleaner, but produce more power and torque along with much improved fuel consumption. Using the incorrect fuel grade is guaranteed to result in premature engine and fuel system failure... and, of course, repair and downtime considerations.
    Last edited by AlSpaeth; 2011/06/20 at 04:02 PM.
    Al
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henris View Post
    I repeat. Filtration is the key.

    The refineries are not doing it. OEM is not doing it. So it is up to us to do it ourselves.
    And the best option for extra filtration would be a UDF filter?

    I remember Uys posting his results of testing with the UDF filter and that he had significant improvements in the reduction of contaminants (particles) in his engine oil.

    The filtration will unfortunately not help with the sulfuric acid formation when using 500ppm over 50ppm.
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    Thanks to SASOL for supplying us with 10ppm diesel. No thanks to having the same diesel with 7-10micron grit in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlSpaeth View Post
    Sasol is the only supplier to produce 10ppm diesel as required in new engines. Our engines are all imported and 10ppm is required. Fuel companies were force to produce and supply 10ppm fuel sice 2008.

    http://www.miningweekly.com/article/...uel-2010-10-22
    The Sasol pumps I've visited all indicated 50ppm. Do they actually sell 10ppm?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobus2.5DID View Post
    The Sasol pumps I've visited all indicated 50ppm. Do they actually sell 10ppm?
    It seems that the Oil Industry cartel is at work here. I think they advertise as 50ppm to comply with local marketing in some sort of an agreement with the opposition.

    Read:
    http://www.miningweekly.com/article/...uel-2010-10-22
    Al
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    Henri, where can I get more details about the filtration solution? When I got the discoveryTDV6, the salesman told me I could use 500ppm diesel without any problem. In Zambia, the cleaner diesel is 500ppm! I do not know what is the "normal" diesel!

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    Your Normal diesel is 5000ppm.

    Contact UDF

    Tank to Dean Puntis.
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