Results 1 to 20 of 20
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Richards Bay
    Age
    76
    Posts
    15
    Thanked: 1

    Default SU carburetor electronic tuning

    My first Discovery is a '97 ES V8i automatic and though the vehicle was running fine when I bought it a year ago the Injection system started playing up and after paying over R2 000 for an air-flow meter that still didn't solve the problem and hearing the prices of the other components that may have to be replaced, I also decided on the strength of threads on this forum to go the SU route. While I was going to have to get to know my vehicle I then decided to do a complete overhaul. Gearbox was refurbished and I basically used the block and cylinder heads and replaced everything else on the motor. I bought a set of SU's and manifold from Paul in Mooiriver and fitted new kits to those as well. I'm still struggling with the timing and carburetor tuning though and while I was reading another forum on BMW motorcycles I read about an air-fuel ratio meter that can be built by the DIY man. I'm no electronics expert and though I haven't started on the project yet, the instructions are plain and simple and I am sure I will manage. Basically one needs 8 components and a Lamda-sonde from a wrecked car and you're in business to do your own electronic tuning. Now my question: will I have to install 2 sensors and then tune one carburetor at a time or will the "passenger" carburetor influence the one being tuned? If this works one could have two of these monitors (one per carb) permanently installed and have a constant read-out of the A-F mixture and tune as and when required. I have researched this on the Internet and such gauges are available albeit at a price. K&N for example has a gauge that retails for R 2 275 and Apex sells theirs for R6 763. If anybody is interested pm me and I can forward the article to you.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Cape Town
    Posts
    1,048
    Thanked: 1306

    Default

    I presume you are talking about a lambda sensor? I imagine you'd need a wide band sensor, of which Innovate LC1 is the best known. You can buy generic wide band sensors quite cheaply, instead of a 2nd hand one in unknown condition which anyway will all be narrow band. The expensive bit is the controller which the wide band needs. I've not heard of the diy kit you talk about but there is a site called 14point7.com where you can buy a diy controller kit. I've no experience with this, only researched it out of interest.

    I would think you would need 2 sensors, one in each pipe, just before the Y.
    '09 Suzuki Grand Vitara 3.2

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Mondeor, JHB.
    Age
    55
    Posts
    3,613
    Thanked: 2

    Default

    The SU's are pretty easy to adjust. What symptoms have you got?
    D2 V8. Pro Comp MX6 Shocks with Mikem Custom Progressive Coils. Wildcat Headers. 265/75/16 Hankook RT03's. FLI Audio. Kaiser Locker.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Richards Bay
    Age
    76
    Posts
    15
    Thanked: 1

    Default

    The DIY monitor is really inexpensive to build and it just looks like a neat project to try. Thanks for the pointers. To re-phrase the question: does the L/H carb feed only to the L/H bank? Riceburner I've been following your instructions as well as information from the down-loadable SU tuning and service manual. I have the carburetors well balanced and the timing set at plus minus 12 degrees but the vehicle doesn't pull like a V8 should.I played around again this afternoon and even hauled out the old colourtune gadget. Response is still not forthcoming yet when I choke ever so slightly she performs much better. Does that mean that I'm still running lean? On the previous settings my consumption was 2.5km/l !!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Springs
    Age
    65
    Posts
    16,735
    Thanked: 302

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fezela View Post
    The DIY monitor is really inexpensive to build and it just looks like a neat project to try. Thanks for the pointers. To re-phrase the question: does the L/H carb feed only to the L/H bank? Riceburner I've been following your instructions as well as information from the down-loadable SU tuning and service manual. I have the carburetors well balanced and the timing set at plus minus 12 degrees but the vehicle doesn't pull like a V8 should.I played around again this afternoon and even hauled out the old colourtune gadget. Response is still not forthcoming yet when I choke ever so slightly she performs much better. Does that mean that I'm still running lean? On the previous settings my consumption was 2.5km/l !!
    12 degrees at sea level is definately way too far advanced.
    irrespective of the method of adding fuel via injection or carb, there should be very little difference in timing. biggest difference is between low and high compression motors.
    for the 3.9 the timing should read about 2 degrees BTDC at around 750 rpm with vacuum hose disconnected at sea level.

    Land Rovers never die, they simply become organ donors!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Durban
    Posts
    742
    Thanked: 36

    Default

    Fuel injection has been proven to be way more reliable vs carb, pity I didnt pick up on your issues earlier, D1s EFI is easy
    30 years experience and knowledge certainly out weighs a 5min keyboard bashing on google
    Love's electrickery stuff and problems related to it as long as it dont go bang cos then its f......
    NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT
    A V8 is where thunder is made
    100%WEE

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Richards Bay
    Age
    76
    Posts
    15
    Thanked: 1

    Default

    I suspect I have a real mixed bag in my motor. Landyluvver says that 12 degrees is too much for sea-level. The engine block is the cross-bolt one stamped CR8.23:1 the crank 4.0 and on the strength of that my supplier suggested composite head gaskets which makes it a low-compression engine? What would the suggested advance be then? I used the advice on a website HOW TO TUNE THE ROVER V8.

    "Final adjustment
    Actually, the freehand approach to ignition timing is best once you've got the thing so it starts and drives. If you're happy the vacuum advance and mechanical advance work correctly then advance it as much as you can without any pinking. Usually the worst spots will be sudden acceleration at low revs after idling , due to higher air intake temperatures, or mid range high load situations like towing or full throttle on steep hills, just advance it until it pinks and then back it off until it goes away, then back it off another two degrees for safety. That will give you optimum timing. Expect to be able to get as much as 4 degrees extra advance if using super unleaded over regular unleaded. Initial advance is not critical as long as it falls somewhere between 0 and 16 degrees "

    Problem is they describe pinking as the sound bottles make rattling together and for the life of me I can't hear it on the V8 (OK so I need a hearing aid hehehe) so I advanced up to the point where engine revs are highest then backed off a couple of degrees.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Mondeor, JHB.
    Age
    55
    Posts
    3,613
    Thanked: 2

    Default

    I set timing by ear, retard it untill it stops pinging. Same as the carbs set them rich and drive hard. Keep on leaning them out untill the Disco start to splutter then richen. Do this 1\4 turn at a time. Took me two weeks to get to this procedure. Both the SU's feed both banks. Start by taking the dashpots off and turn the needles untill they are both flush then richen them by turning 2.5 mm down. I used a electronic vernier. That the closest to base level. Play around from there.
    Last edited by Riceburner; 2011/04/28 at 08:20 AM.
    D2 V8. Pro Comp MX6 Shocks with Mikem Custom Progressive Coils. Wildcat Headers. 265/75/16 Hankook RT03's. FLI Audio. Kaiser Locker.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Richards Bay
    Age
    76
    Posts
    15
    Thanked: 1

    Default

    Thank you Riceburner. That's what I've been doing but I was getting impatient. I'll spend more time on her and search for optimum settings.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Mondeor, JHB.
    Age
    55
    Posts
    3,613
    Thanked: 2

    Default

    I was getting 6.4 l\km on the open road with SU's. If I had to do it again I will go the Weber\Edelbrock 400 route.
    D2 V8. Pro Comp MX6 Shocks with Mikem Custom Progressive Coils. Wildcat Headers. 265/75/16 Hankook RT03's. FLI Audio. Kaiser Locker.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Richards Bay
    Age
    76
    Posts
    15
    Thanked: 1

    Default

    I'll be happy with 6.4 !! Btw I have a complete injection system with new airflow meter plus the ECU and a Dastech chip lying around doing nothing.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Kempton Park
    Age
    45
    Posts
    2,169
    Thanked: 1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fezela View Post
    I'll be happy with 6.4 !! Btw I have a complete injection system with new airflow meter plus the ECU and a Dastech chip lying around doing nothing.
    Advertise it in the classified section, somebody will want it.
    Platkar driver...
    '99 Land Rover Discovery 3.9 V8i - SOLD
    Challenger Bundu Basher - SOLD
    I will drive a Land Rover again...

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Springs
    Age
    65
    Posts
    16,735
    Thanked: 302

    Default

    8.23 is definately low compression.
    be carefulthough. many guys up the compression when reconning the motor. a compression test will give you a fairly accurate indication. under 9 will be a low compression and above that obviously a high compression.
    problem with the low compression motors is you can easily be out by 10 degrees and she still runs.
    watch the temp gauge and find a spot where she is happy. normally even if you can't hear the timing being out, she will run hotter especially if advanced too far.
    Last edited by Landyluvver; 2011/04/28 at 12:34 PM.

    Land Rovers never die, they simply become organ donors!

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Richards Bay
    Age
    76
    Posts
    15
    Thanked: 1

    Default

    Spent some time driving and adjusting the timing this afternoon. I think I've hit the right spot. The temp. gauge sits on 80 and she's pulling much harder. I also made the mixture richer and there's a big improvement. Will keep playing with the settings then check fuel consumption again. Thank you to everybody that replied and pointed me in the right direction. Just shows again: you can't buy experience.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Witpoortjie
    Age
    80
    Posts
    750
    Thanked: 1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fezela View Post
    The DIY monitor is really inexpensive to build and it just looks like a neat project to try. Thanks for the pointers. To re-phrase the question: does the L/H carb feed only to the L/H bank? Riceburner I've been following your instructions as well as information from the down-loadable SU tuning and service manual. I have the carburetors well balanced and the timing set at plus minus 12 degrees but the vehicle doesn't pull like a V8 should.I played around again this afternoon and even hauled out the old colourtune gadget. Response is still not forthcoming yet when I choke ever so slightly she performs much better. Does that mean that I'm still running lean? On the previous settings my consumption was 2.5km/l !!
    Hi Fezela,

    Lh bank feeds 1,4,6,7
    rh bank feeds 2, 3, 5, 8

    Had a major problem getting my carbs on my 3.5 set before I found this out :-)
    1949 Series 1 80" 2.0l rover engine.Also Sold
    1969 Series 2a 109" safari. 3.5l rover engine, 4sp Range Rover ZF g/box. 3.5 diffs Sold. Will miss her lots
    1999 Disco ii 4.0l v8 Auto box

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Mondeor, JHB.
    Age
    55
    Posts
    3,613
    Thanked: 2

    Default

    You cant buy experience but is comes at a cost!
    D2 V8. Pro Comp MX6 Shocks with Mikem Custom Progressive Coils. Wildcat Headers. 265/75/16 Hankook RT03's. FLI Audio. Kaiser Locker.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Kempton Park
    Age
    45
    Posts
    2,169
    Thanked: 1

    Default

    Here is a buyer for your EFI system:
    WANTED: Land Rover EFI system from early Range Rover or early Discovery V8. Must be complete and include inlet manifolds, injectors, throttle body, stepper motor, ECU, etc. Jakes. 076-9220709
    Platkar driver...
    '99 Land Rover Discovery 3.9 V8i - SOLD
    Challenger Bundu Basher - SOLD
    I will drive a Land Rover again...

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Richards Bay
    Age
    76
    Posts
    15
    Thanked: 1

    Default

    Thank you Ajay. I will call him tomorrow. New problem: when I accelerate hard the R/H carburetor seems to drop the dashpot piston. While the motor is running and I unscrew the dashpot plugs and lift the piston slightly, the R/H carb makes the motor splutter but there is no reaction when I lift the R/H one. Maybe a bad return spring? The oil also seems to disappear from this one and I have to regularly refill.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    De Wildt
    Age
    62
    Posts
    42,667
    Thanked: 20097

    Default

    That Jakes is me, so save a phone call, unless your name is Frik?

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Barberton
    Age
    75
    Posts
    60
    Thanked: 1

    Default lambda sensor

    Could you forward the diagram for this kit

    Thanks
    Louis
    1990 Land Rover Defender 127 3.5 V8 with 3.9 fuel injection manifold spitronics engine managment and 1999 Terrano 2.7 tdi [email protected]

Similar Threads

  1. Disco 1 tuning resistor
    By AncientGeek in forum Land Rover
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 2014/02/01, 07:38 PM
  2. Dyno Tuning 4.5 Carburator cruiser/Exhaust system
    By willie moutom in forum Toyota
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 2011/04/03, 12:27 PM
  3. Defender Landy D110 300TDi tuning for power
    By AeroDave in forum Land Rover
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 2009/09/15, 08:54 PM
  4. Dyno Tuning
    By Pierre in forum Land Rover
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 2007/07/28, 11:25 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may post attachments
  • You may edit your posts
  •