Defender And So I Bought A LEMON !!!!





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  1. #1
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    Default And So I Bought A LEMON !!!!

    Hi Guys,

    Well I though I would share my experience with you all regarding my treasured 1996 Land Rover Defender 90 TDi.
    It all started about a year ago when I bought what I though was a great deal.
    It was a good condition 1996 Land Rover Defender 90 Pick-up for around R70k.
    There was no service history for the vehicle but the previous owner did have an invoice from an apparently RMI approved independent Land Rover specialist (wont mention any names, not sure I am allowed) for an engine rebuild.
    This seemed like a good deal

    So I took it though to a friend of mine who has had Land Rovers for as far as I can remember, he had a look though it and all seemed fine, there was a bit of a noise on start up but that we though was tappets.

    That was that it... one new "PROUD" Land Rover owner..... I have driven the vehicle for about a year and put roughly 25,000km's on the clock... serviced her regularly... fixed up the small things we found as we went along like the diesel pump, bushes and bearings, the odd oil leak here and there.... I was happy!

    About a month ago I was on a trip and the idler/tension pulley bolt striped from the housing, not a problem.... managed to get the vehicle back home and then I decided to take her to LMC (Jack) in Bredell to have it fixed, while I was there I asked them to give it a good check over..... then the phone call came !!!!

    There was no oil pressure at start-up which is why there was the noise and once she was running the oil pressure was very low, the decision was made to take the motor out and check all the clearances on the pump, bearings etc...... Then the other phone call came though !!

    The previous (apparently Landy Specialist) mechanic had, and only they will now how, managed to put one of the main bearing caps on backwards.
    Now for those who aren't familiar with how this works there are locating pins on the engine block side which fit in to the main bearing cap.
    see image


    Its a bit like trying to put an electrical plug in the wall socket the wrong way... it just does not fit !! and if you try with a big hammer to make it fit something WILL break...
    By doing this there would have been a gap between the bearing cap and the engine block even once it had been torqued, so by the looks of things they just kept on tightening it until it looked good and the gap closed, this resulted in the locating pins being pushed in to and cracking the block through the threads and actually chipping pieces off the block!!

    Jack said to me he was amazed that the motor had not disintegrated ages ago and I can be glad it is not any worse.

    That being said it is going to have to be full open heart surgery..
    New (good second hand) engine block
    New Pistons, bearings, con-rods, etc
    New (good second hand) crank shaft (old one already been worked on and welded plus its badly scored from not fitting in the bearings properly)
    and while its all opened up...
    Turbo Recon
    Injectors
    Pump etc

    Total estimated cost +/- R35k - R40k

    I don't have any pics at the moment but as soon as I pop round there Ill take some pics and keep everyone updated on the progress.

    Let hope I can get her back on the road an in the dirt soon.

    PS.. if there is anyone who would like to sponsor me R100 to the cause it would be greatly appreciated (400 People, R100 each engine rebuild done )

    Cheers

    Marc
    Last edited by MarcT; 2011/04/20 at 11:09 AM.
    1996 Defender 90 - 2.5 Tdi - Sold
    2005 Discovery II ES - TD5
    --------------------------------------------------

  2. #2
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    Default

    Hey Marc,

    Bummer, is about all I can say, try and look at it this way, when finished you are going to have a landie in great condition for R110k, sure you overpaid a bit but think of all those stress free km lying ahead.

    I'm in for the R100, I will fax it immediately. LoL.
    4x4 less.

  3. #3
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    I know, I think its going to be all worth it in the end.

    I was thinking about selling advertising space... hehe... for R100 ill print your name on the side but I don't think ill fit 400 names on a 90 pickup
    1996 Defender 90 - 2.5 Tdi - Sold
    2005 Discovery II ES - TD5
    --------------------------------------------------

  4. #4
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    Hi Marc

    Think of it this way, once Jack has fixed it it will last another 20years!
    So R35 000 for 20 years of piece of mind is not bad at all

    Good luck and hope you can get her in the dirt\mud ASAP!
    Chris

    "Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing" Helen Keller

    1996 Range Rover P38 4,6 HSE
    1977 LandRover Series III 109" Project

  5. #5
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    Eina! nie lekker nie!
    Everything is a hammer.
    Unless it is a screw driver.

    Then it it a chisel.

  6. #6
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    Name and shame. This is not the first time the RMI approved places made a hash of it. I would like to know who did the motor, so that I can not recomend it to fellow Landy drivers.

    Sure it was probably just an appi in the workshop that forced the bearing, but in the end the workshop employed the guy. They should know better
    Sold Land Rover 110 Tdi Hard top.
    Crank driven compressor http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/...ad.php?t=42059

    Sold: 2000 Discovery2 V8 Auto

    Current: 2005 Subaru Outback 3.0R: Mommy wagon, strapped to a rocket. What a car!

    Orra call sign B226

  7. #7
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    damn
    i agree with Jack.
    don't know how you managed 25k km with the motor like that.
    just shows how amazing that little 300tdi is.
    one option is to get a replacement Remtec engine and bolt the rest on.
    may save some money.
    if Jack has rebuilt that motor, you can be assured it will be 100% though.

    Land Rovers never die, they simply become organ donors!

  8. #8
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    Cheques in the post
    Estee = S T = Sean Towlson

    Hummer H3 V8

    W.A.P Objectivist

  9. #9
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    mmm I have a Def 90 in my wshop right now, came in for transfer box rebuild......but should stay for a engine rebuild too, was told a certain person rebuilt engine but doubting it as motor has less than 2000ks since being done, lovely knocking from lower end.....no names....why...

    I always wonder if x company did do as owner z says, most of the times its not the case and always seems to be about saving face, been doing this for too many years and specialising in rangies is awhole line altogether......
    I must have in excess of 300 range rover owners on my books, good fun
    Im trying to keep away from D2s and defenders but rangie owners also own Disco's and defenders.............nutters
    30 years experience and knowledge certainly out weighs a 5min keyboard bashing on google
    Love's electrickery stuff and problems related to it as long as it dont go bang cos then its f......
    NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT
    A V8 is where thunder is made
    100%WEE

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    Sad to hear, pity the CPA was not yet in force.
    To argue with a person that has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. ~ Thomas Paine

  11. #11
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    Well to be honest, the work on the invoice from the previous owner was done by Landy Tech.
    Another thing I have just noticed on the paper work is that mileage on the invoice compared to the mileage on the odometer
    Work done in 2009 - Mileage 240,000km's
    Vehicle Odo (Today with me putting km's on the clock) 228,000km's

    Already something smells fishy, rely should have paid a little more attention to the details.

    One other thing maybe some one can answer as the pistons have not come out yet so this cant be verified.

    The invoice states a line item of "Cut accumulators in to Piston" does anyone happen to know what that means and why you would be cutting pistons ?

    Cheers

    Marc
    1996 Defender 90 - 2.5 Tdi - Sold
    2005 Discovery II ES - TD5
    --------------------------------------------------

  12. #12
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    Invest in one of those Madman things which monitors everything!
    --Kar

  13. #13
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    If the vehicle appears to have been through the fountain of youth and the kilo's wound back, take it up with the selling dealer.
    Last edited by Spectator; 2011/04/25 at 10:37 AM.

  14. #14
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    I've always maintained that forums like these (as well as the other brand- or type-specific forums like Nissan4x4, ZA-LRO, DiscoWeb, etc) should have a communal RSS feed of "Name & Shame" posts: if service provider XYZ does a shitty job, and you have enough evidence, then post the details and let XYZ post a rebuttal and if appropriate, what they are doing to rectify.

    Like Hellopeter, but just for the vehicle forums?

    Any lawyers care to comment?

    Otherwise, exactly what power do you have except to remove business from a shady [email protected]@rd that is ripping people off, whether knowingly or maybe just because his mechanic isn't worth jack?

    I find South Africans are FAR too complacent: in the US and even in the US, there would have been letters and lawyers flying around like low flying jets.

    The CPA is going to be a great thing, but sometimes, the service providers aren't on the radar: for eg Jannie's Workshop does all his work cash, no invoices.....so you use Jannie when in a pinch, and Jannie stuffs up big-time. The CPA doesn't work against Jannie because there is no proof of a transaction. Then you name & shame Jannie on this forum, thereby saving somebody else from being out of pocket.

    Or am I off the mark here?
    2012 Jeep Sahara Unlimited 3.6 V6
    Percivamus

  15. #15
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    We're always driving past places like thembisa and soweto and you see these mechanics next to the roads working on their cars. They weld exhausts and perform major overhauls next to the road in the dirt. Then we always think, poor car, that's the end for it, will never be the same again.

    Chilling truth is, these are the exact same mechanics that work at VW, Toyota and Land Rover during the week. There's a reason they don't allow you inside the workshop. To witness what they do to your car at a dealer is traumatic. This is not just to the engine, have you had a new car being taken by a tracker installer and watched him butcher your brand new dashboard?

    I'm scared when I hear stories about what happens at dealers and workshops. Seems like the only way to properly repair something is to do it yourself. There are good ones too, which we never hear about because its what we expect when we pay their fees.

  16. #16
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    as a rule we do not name and shame.
    every coin has 2 sides.
    easy for anyone to bitch about someone without that person having the option to defend their position before having their name blackened.
    the customer is always king but not always right.
    quite often damage is caused by the customer through carelessness and then they wish to cover damage by blaming someone other than themselves.
    i would rather point people to someone reliable, dependable and reputable than slander the one not up to standard.
    if you have an issue with someone, there are bodies like RMI or others that can act as mediators if things get messy. small claims court is also an option up to R10 000 (i think) but have found that 99% of repairers will reach a compromise with the customer to rectify the issue.
    any fly by night will not survive long.

    in America all prices are inflated through the roof to cover trigger happy people that run to lawyers.
    if you are willing to go the dealer route and pay their inflated prices, go for it.
    if you are happy with Jannie because he has always given you good value for money, give Jannie a break. quite often it is not Jannie but someone who he subcontracted to rebuild the motor.

    i have seen it so often - a guys drives into a workshop with smoke pouring out of the exhaust, the workshop manager tells him the motor is cooked and it is going to cost R40k to set right and Mr X say he cannot afford it and can the manager make a plan. quite often the customer also says he just wants to get it running so he can sell it. the manager squeezes in a R8k job and says not to come back if something goes wrong.
    Mr x drives 1000km and the motor blows because the oil pump was never replaced. now Mr X is pissed off and goes around slagging the workshop.

    we as customers are so easy to try to manipulate people into doing a cheap job. the stealers will not recon a motor. you drive in, they assess the motor as buggered and suggest a motor replacement. a quote of R100k for a TDV6 motor and you start looking for alternatives.
    you get what you pay for.

    i'm not a moderator on this specific forum but believe that is the way we do things here. please use Hello Peter if you wish. tell people about the good service or the favours someone did but do not knock someone by name publically.

    IMHO!

    Land Rovers never die, they simply become organ donors!

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landyluvver View Post

    i would rather point people to someone reliable, dependable and reputable than slander the one not up to standard.

    IMHO!
    X100

    Keith
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD
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    The frogs are starting to notice that the water is getting warm but it is already too hot to do anything about it.....

  18. #18
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    be positive like many of the guys said, you have got a very cool 4x4!!!
    Kia Sorento 2.2d A/T
    Honda CRV 2.0 A/T



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