Terracan Auto box whine (3.5 V6)

[petri.labuschagne]

Hey guys, This follows on the wading article posted earlier. I made the rookie mistake of not walking infront of the car when trying to pass through water and got stuck in some deep mudy water. I was recoverd but had some damage to the low-range selector module (R11k later). After they replaced it I asked them to replace the diff oil (front and rear) as well as the gearbox ATF based on the advice of the "rescue" party. Since then I have noticed two quite concerning issues and I need some advice from the experts: 1) The gearbox has a loud whine to it and is present when I start the car al the way through driving etc. Basically, its present the whole time and is quite loud. 2) I seems as if there is some sand in the wheelbearings. If I go around corners you get the distinct sound AND feeling that there is sand stuck somewhere. I take it the weelbearing are closed units, but what could this be? Thanks for the time and effort! Regards

[offroad junky]

If this wining sound is present when you start the car without driving, it is not the wheel bearings.....

Who did your gearbox oil change? Stealers? Did they put the correct oil in your gearbox and did they put enough in? Start your Can and then check the gearbox oil level with the engine running. Also, did they put the correct oil in your rear diff that has the Limited Slip in?

Here is the threads on diffs wining because of wrong oil; (read them, very informative)

http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/...ad.php?t=67662
http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/...ad.php?t=67084
especiallythis one ; http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/...ad.php?t=59793

Hearing the sound of sand grinding when you corner could mean there is mud/sand in you calipers. If so, take your wheels off, one at a time and use good ole elbow grease to clean everything out properly. Check your front hubs while you have the wheels off and also your discs and pads.

When you have the Can jacked up and the wheels off, use a long screwdriver, put the flat end on your bearing cap and put your ear against the handle, like a doctors stethoscope and turn the hub. This way you will hear if the bearings are shot.

Process of elimination.....start with the easiest and cheapest one and work your way from there.

[gerhard54]

Hi,

See if you guys can help me with my Can's problem, its not a whine but a shudder!
My Can is a 2.9 diesel auto. From pull away there is a shudder all the way until it slipss into second gear and then it fades away. When I suddendy stop, for eg. a red robot, when the outo selector moves down from third to second to first, just before it slips into first there is a shudder and it is as if it sticks for a few seconds (shuddering) and it slips into first.

I have had the prop shaft removed and checked and it is 100%, I had all the wheel bearings checked and they are also 100%. Basically the agents could not find anything wrong even after they connected it to the computer. They have not yet had such a problem to deal with!

What do you my learned friends say?

[offroad junky]

TerrieCan,

have your gearbox cross member and mounting checked....?

Again, just my oppinion and I have the 3.5 V6 auto. I also had a vibrationfrom 60km/h to about 80km/h and especially under exceleration......I also had both propshafts checked, wheels balanced and rotated, engine and gearbox mountings checked....Hyundai could not figuer it out as well...

I eventually chenged the spark plugs and all was cured...!!!!

Auto box oil level?
Correct oil in Auto box?
Possibly hydraulic pump in Auto box?

[gerhard54]

Thanks for the reply 'Offroad Juncky',

I will make a turn at the agents this week to see what they have to say about the suggestions you made. I dont know whether or not they checked those things. Changing the plugs ..... that wont work for my diesel junky !
Will post their reply.
Cheers 4 now.

[offroad junky]

TerrieCan,

Now that I think about it, you might have your torque converter checked on the auto box. Again, I'm no boffin, just trying to help.

[gerhard54]

Hi offroad junky,

I drove from George to Cape Town today and had my vehicle diagnosed at Rex Diffs & Gearbox near Cape Town Int. Airport and they are saying axactly what you are saying. The torque converter is suspect. When I am back in George I will book my car in at the agents in order for them to have it sorted out. I need to follow this route as my car is still under factory warrenty. But at least we are getting to the bottum of it.

I will only book my car in the first week in May as I still want to use my car the easter week end to Addo with the 4WD club. If I book it in next week there may just be a snag of some sorts and that will leave me without a car for the easter week end.

Will post the outcome.

[petri.labuschagne]

Thanks offroad junky,

I booked the vehicle at Hyundai and it shows you, one needs a undersatnding of how cars work...which I don't have. The whine I was hearing had to do with the V-belt rollers being kaput. It was replaced under warrantee...

As for the wheels...they replaced my front pads as they where end of life, and the technician showed me the pads and on them are warning blocks that start to grind when the pad is at it's end. He told me this was what I was hearing, but alas, after driving away, the sound is still present.

Will follow your advise wrt to screwdriver.

TerrieCan,

Please keep me updated wrt to your torque converter issue, as I have the same symptoms. At my prevoius, the Huyndai technician did tell me that my gearbox driveshaft seal is starting to leak and they will replace under warrantee...I wonder if there are any correlation between the shudder and a seal that needs to be replaced at 75000km?

[offroad junky]

petri.labuschagne/Terriecan,

The way I understand how the auto works when in 4x4 is that it locks the Torque converter so that you can decent obsticles against engine compression and NOT be on the brakes only....

Oom Morton/LouisXander....correct me if I wrong?

So it could be that after you 4x4'd, it just stayed locked in position and not disengaging like it should?

[gerhard54]

The problem that I am experiencing is not after being in 4x4 but after extensive driving on tar road i.e George to cape town. So it can not be some of the components sticking as suggested!

Right, to take up my story on the shudder and the proposed torque converter change the following.

I booked the car in at the agents in George and they replaced the torque converter under warranty - great stuff !! Did it fix the problem? Yes, but only to a certain extent. There is a marked improvement on my fuel consumption but I still experience a shudder/vibration at low speeds i.e. pulling away from standstill normally, not in dicing mode. Pulling off from 4 way stop, immediately turning left on an uphill I also experienced the shudder/vibration, mostly around the 35-40km/h range, thereafter it disappears. The sound can also be described the same as when there is a leak on the exhaust manifold or there about.

This morning I again booked the car in at the agents for its 70000 km service and again requested that they investigate the problem to see what can be the problem. Did not get the car back this afternoon late but definitely tomorrow.

I also do not have any oil leaks from the gearbox seals as there are such evidence on my garage floor nor my parking bay at work. That most probably eliminates the drive shaft oil seal! Will in any case bounce this one against the workshop guys tomorrow!

Will keep you posted om this one.

[LouisXander]

Guys, normal 80W90 oil in the rear diffs won't work. You need LSX90 LSD oil, as well as the rear diff must be bleeded first to be filled correctly. That seconds hesitation appears on many auto Cans, and is usually cured by putting the correct Limited slip diff oil. R70 per 500ml. I'm trying to get them in 20lt which will be much cheaper, but its difficult in sourcing them.

[Festi1]

Hi Louis

Could you expalin the "bleeding" part?

spoken to a Jeep owner, he had a Cherokee, also had a LSD which also needed a lube. He got this from Jeep. Will talk to him today to get details on what oil and lube they used.

[LouisXander]

Festi, pls remember I'm a noob on these things. Apparently whilst filling you lower the one side, at the same time spinning the wheel and visa versa in order for the oil to go in between the plates.

Otherwise you'll have a situation of too less oil one the diff start turning as the oil goes into those spaces.

I think SarelF on the forum will be able to tell you more precise.

[Morton Berg]

OJ i'm impressed, you getting to know you CAN and helping others. Yes you are correct wrt torque and engine break. However I personally don't like laboring and engine so I tend to push breaks more than not. Breaks are cheaper than engine parts in my book. Good grief who's me talking I have not been out for 4 months My Can is checking me skeef. I even had it valeted from top to bottom, he,heee Looks quite sweet now

[Festi1]

After a lot of searching I have come down to using Castrol LSX SAE90 for the diff. I had to buy a 5l. Was quoted R320 but when I got and paid, was charged R245.

Then the lube! Was looking for the Mobil Infilix33(?). Found it on the internet, seems to be a UK/US product, nobody here knows what it is.

Then I spoke to Brett at Hyundai Boksburg ( the one near Outdoor W ), he drove a Terracan a few years back. He found it listed on a Hyundai service problem page, the lube to be used is a Red Line Friction Modifier / Break-In.

Hyundai part No. 8217-Redline. ( When I first heard it sounded like A217, so ask for both codes ) You need 2 per diff. Cost was R125 ea. it is a bottle of just over 100ml!! I took his last one but he has ordered me another - of course I had to pay up front - there are another 10 at his Germiston branch.

Also spoke to Willem as per Oom Morton, thanks for the info Morton, to "bleed", jack one wheel off the ground - 2cm - start the car and run in gear for 2 - 3 min. Do the same with the other wheel. Check level and top up if needed. However when speaking to Brett, he didn't know anything about this and asked 2 of his "senior" techies at the branch and they knew nothing of it. Must admit, the thought of running the car with one wheel on a trestle had me thinking hard, then I read up on LS diffs. Now I understand a little better and I can understand just why I got stuck a few times. ( added to this I only recently found my actuator was buggered, I've probably never had 4x4 )

I'll doing the front as well, here I've been told normal EP90 (?) diff oil will do. I've ordered Castrol at around R 40 / 500ml, should get that today.

Depending how hard you drive your 4x4, the recommended oil change on diffs is arounf 20 000km. Any comments on this?

Hope this helps with finding the lube for the guys looking for it out there.

[offroad junky]

Not wanting to sound stupid or anything but what is the purpose of the Redline lube

The Castrol LSX SAE90 is the oil to use in the LSD but what is the lube for and what is it's function?

[Festi1]

Hi OJ

Short answer – to prevent “shuddering” from the diff when driving off-centre at low speeds. Something to do with the clutch plates in the diff.

As mentioned earlier I had managed to get stuck in a bit of muddy water over Easter in Botswana. Took a couple of hours to get out and at least half of the diff was submerged. Reason I got stuck was no 4x4, caused by faulty actuator. When I got the actuator sorted, the guy who fixed it for me took the car for a spin and picked up the shudder, recognised immediately as the diff and told me to replace diff oil as water could have got in etc. he actually had a Cherokee which had the same problem. He got oil + lube from Jeep ( Cherokee also has LS diff ) I was actully going to check the power steering once the actuator was sorted. Felt like something was obstructing the wheels when turning into the driveway.


I picked up on the forum that diff oil needed was “Mobil Infilrix33 / Castrol LSX SAE 90”
Wasn’t sure if both were oils or whatever. Checked internet and the Infilirx is a lube but can’t get it here is SA. UK or US. The Castrol LS oil, available but scarce and expensive.

Found a Hyundai part number on an Aussie forum for a lube. When I asked for it at the Stealers part number unknown but the guy who helped me recognised what I was after and sold me the redline.

Did my diff yesterday, it took about 3.5l Castrol plus the 1x lube. Drove it last night and feels much better already. I’ll give a few more km’s before adding if the second lube. According the “experts” the lube takes +/- 150km to work in properly.

I’ll see how it goes.

[offroad junky]

Hi OJ

Short answer – to prevent “shuddering” from the diff when driving off-centre at low speeds. Something to do with the clutch plates in the diff.

Now you've got me worried..... I had all the oil changed on the 145 000km service (had them do a 120 000km service again because I didn't know if the previous owner had a proper full 120 000km service done which included ALL oils, engine, gearbox, both diffs and T/C) and I don't recall seeing that redline stuff on the Hyundai service invoice....

When I get back in SA I'll have to go see the stealer then because Swambo also complained that she felt a shudder every time she'd reverse out the driveway and turned.... I just made it off as the Cooper tyres rubbing on the rubber splash covers in the wheel arch because mine are loose and I still need to tie them down....

Thanks Festi1

[offroad junky]

OJ i'm impressed, you getting to know you CAN and helping others. Yes you are correct wrt torque and engine break. However I personally don't like laboring and engine so I tend to push breaks more than not. Breaks are cheaper than engine parts in my book. Good grief who's me talking I have not been out for 4 months My Can is checking me skeef. I even had it valeted from top to bottom, he,heee Looks quite sweet now

Oom Morton, me thinks you getting soft....driving the Merc every day now are we...? aahhh, soft leather seats, easy getting in and out and into parkings.......8)...and not to mention all the nice young girls checking the oom out in the nice Merc....LOL

That's fine, I'll gladly take Beast off of your hands

[Festi1]

"rubber splash covers in the wheel arch because mine are loose and I still need to tie them down..."

Hi OJ

That's exactly what I thought. Spent an hour or 2 checking wheel arches, tightening flaps etc, then even suspected the power steering belt.

Luckily my mate diagnosed it straight off.

I did my diff oil Saturday, put 1x lube in - the effect was immediate. Went for a test drive after and the shudder was gone. Maybe I didn't need the lube, just the oil change. I have been driving the Can for 53 000km now. BUT I was in a bit of water a short while ago and the thinking was that maybe some water had got into the diff as well.

Anyway thought i would just let you know.