ULTIMATE Petrol vs Diesel thread - Comparisons - Page 4





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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Shirt View Post
    Can you please do a comparison for the Hilux auto models, unless they identical to the Fortuner in terms of gear ratios. Wheel size changed from 15" to 16" in 2008 or 2009, on the Fortuner it went from 16" to 17".
    I haven't developed the sheet enough for those kinds of changes to have an influence.
    The only thing that will change with wheel size, is the road speed calculated as the circumference changes.
    Everything else will remain exactly as you see it there.
    Because I'm not calculating the actual force of movement on the tar surface, only the combined torque of the drive axles.
    And I'm not calculating acceleration, so the weight of the vehicles do not matter at this stage, as long as they are the same.

    If the engines, gearboxes and diffs are still as they are shown, the results will be exactly the same. The shift points in rpm will be the same. Only the road speed at that rpm will change.

    Unless the Hilux models run different tyre sizes between the diesel and petrol?

    If you are only interested in the change in road speed, sure, just give me the tyre size please?
    SWAMBO
    2009 Suzuki Grand Vitara 3.2i V6 Auto
    Me
    2003 Ford Focus 2.0

    Eurard: For T=2; T=1 but, 1/2T=

  2. #62
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    Pre-facelift Hilux: 255/70 R15
    Facelift Hilux: 265/70 R16

    AFAIK know the diesel/petrol Hilux share the same tyre size.
    - Nothing comes at a higher price than that which is free.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Shirt View Post
    Pre-facelift Hilux: 255/70 R15
    Facelift Hilux: 265/70 R16

    AFAIK know the diesel/petrol Hilux share the same tyre size.
    Pre-facelift should give around 2318.5 as a circumference, which translates to about 116km/h at 2500rpm in 5th

    Facelift should give around 2442.3 as a circumference, which translates to about 122km/h at 2500rpm in 5th

    Circumferences calculated as per link in the 1st post.
    SWAMBO
    2009 Suzuki Grand Vitara 3.2i V6 Auto
    Me
    2003 Ford Focus 2.0

    Eurard: For T=2; T=1 but, 1/2T=

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave 2000 View Post
    I still think turbo diesels are better. OI WHO SAID THAT?
    And turbo petrol V8s are even betterer
    There is no such thing as inclement weather, only poor selection of clothing.... or Vehicle

    2010 Hummer H3 5.3lt V8, 300 HP, FDL, RDL, CDL, TC and 4:1 Low Range

    Discovery and Range Rovers: SOLD: enough is enough

  5. #65
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    Red, than you for the time, effort and knowledge you have put into this work. I believe this is Doctoral stuff

    You need to send this to TG, Clarkson will be overjoyed
    There is no such thing as inclement weather, only poor selection of clothing.... or Vehicle

    2010 Hummer H3 5.3lt V8, 300 HP, FDL, RDL, CDL, TC and 4:1 Low Range

    Discovery and Range Rovers: SOLD: enough is enough

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Estee View Post
    Red, than you for the time, effort and knowledge you have put into this work. I believe this is Doctoral stuff

    You need to send this to TG, Clarkson will be overjoyed
    Thanks! Really means a lot!
    Gets me going to expand it as planned, as I'm running out of figures to publish
    SWAMBO
    2009 Suzuki Grand Vitara 3.2i V6 Auto
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    2003 Ford Focus 2.0

    Eurard: For T=2; T=1 but, 1/2T=

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedLineR View Post
    I'm running out of figures to publish
    A document on how much better Jeep and LR V8s are compared to Diesels wou;ld be nice
    There is no such thing as inclement weather, only poor selection of clothing.... or Vehicle

    2010 Hummer H3 5.3lt V8, 300 HP, FDL, RDL, CDL, TC and 4:1 Low Range

    Discovery and Range Rovers: SOLD: enough is enough

  8. #68
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    RedlineR been out of commision for a bit and missed these calcs.

    Ratio's for Manual 4x4 D4D
    1st 4.313
    2nd 2.336
    3rd 1.436
    4th 1
    5th 0.838
    Rev 4.220

    Diff ratio 3.583
    TC ratio 2.566

    Try to thow that in your calc and see what you get, Compare d4d AT to MT and D4D mt to 4lV6
    Coenraad Basson

    Hilux D/C 3.0 D4D



    Prado 4.0 V6 Auto VX


  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Estee View Post
    A document on how much better Jeep and LR V8s are compared to Diesels wou;ld be nice
    Can't do different models in the same brand even
    Too many "all things being equal" that would not be equal then.

    Damn, missed the tongue in cheek bit

    But even the editor of sa4x4 said they struggle to find torque curves to publish. And they're a magazine!
    Last edited by RedLineR; 2011/03/29 at 06:14 PM.
    SWAMBO
    2009 Suzuki Grand Vitara 3.2i V6 Auto
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    Eurard: For T=2; T=1 but, 1/2T=

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoenraadB View Post
    RedlineR been out of commision for a bit and missed these calcs.

    Ratio's for Manual 4x4 D4D
    1st 4.313
    2nd 2.336
    3rd 1.436
    4th 1
    5th 0.838
    Rev 4.220

    Diff ratio 3.583
    TC ratio 2.566

    Try to thow that in your calc and see what you get, Compare d4d AT to MT and D4D mt to 4lV6
    Sorry Coenraad
    I cannot change the initial parameters. They are, that it has to be the exact same model. Can't go comparing autos to manuals etc.

    But, for your own reference, you can simply stick those figures into the fortuner sheet for instance.
    The sheets are not locked or anything.
    SWAMBO
    2009 Suzuki Grand Vitara 3.2i V6 Auto
    Me
    2003 Ford Focus 2.0

    Eurard: For T=2; T=1 but, 1/2T=

  11. #71
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    OK understand.

    Will do Red
    Coenraad Basson

    Hilux D/C 3.0 D4D



    Prado 4.0 V6 Auto VX


  12. #72
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    RedL,

    I used you figures and did a quick and dirty graph for my car. Makes for interesting reading.

    Once again, thanks for your effort,
    Roelf
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoelfleRoux View Post
    RedL,

    I used you figures and did a quick and dirty graph for my car. Makes for interesting reading.

    Once again, thanks for your effort,
    Roelf
    Interesting!
    Could you throw the diesel figures on there as well, and post the xls file?
    SWAMBO
    2009 Suzuki Grand Vitara 3.2i V6 Auto
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    Eurard: For T=2; T=1 but, 1/2T=

  14. #74
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    actually - graph like that are ideal!!!

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    actually - graph like that are ideal!!!
    Yeh, I had a rethink about graphs after the first set, Triton.
    And I made some adjustments when I posted the Tuna and Pajero.
    Though the rpm interval is not consistent, I simply translate the inconsistency everywhere.
    So the rpm range is stretched in places, but it's stretched for all gears, and both engines. So the shape is elongated in places, but the data is still 100% correct.
    SWAMBO
    2009 Suzuki Grand Vitara 3.2i V6 Auto
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    2003 Ford Focus 2.0

    Eurard: For T=2; T=1 but, 1/2T=

  16. #76
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    There you go guys. I plotted the DiD and the V6 on the same graph. It is very busy, but what stands out is that from 74km/h on, if you are prepared to turn up the revs on that beautiful sounding V6, then there is nothing the diesel can do to keep up.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoelfleRoux View Post
    There you go guys. I plotted the DiD and the V6 on the same graph. It is very busy, but what stands out is that from 74km/h on, if you are prepared to turn up the revs on that beautiful sounding V6, then there is nothing the diesel can do to keep up.
    thanks very much!

    Here are the gear changes drawn in.
    Just changed all the diesel graphs to blue, and all the petrol to red lines.
    The change line I had to draw in.
    And then my awesome colouring skill to highlight the areas.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    SWAMBO
    2009 Suzuki Grand Vitara 3.2i V6 Auto
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    2003 Ford Focus 2.0

    Eurard: For T=2; T=1 but, 1/2T=

  18. #78
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    fmeh.

    cross out everything over 140 km/h...

    pointless stuff.

    and anything over 4000 rpm just too antisocial...



    okay, so so far this proves that Toyota and Mitsubishi are rubbish, which we all knew all along

    the diesel only just keeps with the petrol to 120...

    WHERE ARE THE WRANGLER GRAPHS!!!!



    did I mention diesels still use less fuel to do the same work?

    I think I should go to bed...

  19. #79
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    This thread makes me think of someone that once said a certain Rugby team looks good on paper and the other replied that the game is not played on paper it is played on grass.

    Get out there and actually do a physical comparison else what you have here are just figures...

  20. #80
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    LOL Apoc,

    Did the Wranglers use these boxes? If so, which one goes with which?
    W5A580 AUTOMATIC, FIVE-SPEED OVERDRIVE
    Adaptive electronic control or Electronic Range Select (ERS) driverinteractive manual control and electronically modulated torque converter clutch.

    Gear ratios:
    1st - 3.59
    2nd - 2.19
    3rd - 1.41
    4th - 1.00
    5th - 0.83
    Rev - 3.16

    Axle: - 3.07, 3.55 optional

    Final Drive Ratio: 3.07:1 with 3.7-liter engine

    Overall Top Gear: 2.55 with 3.07 axle or 2.95 with 3.55 axle

    545RFE, AUTOMATIC MULTI-SPEED
    Three planetary gear sets, one overrunning clutch, with Electronic Range Select (ERS) driver interactive control, electronically controlled torque converter clutch.

    Gear ratios:
    1st - 3.00
    2nd - 1.67 (upshift), 1.50 (kickdown)
    3rd - 1.0
    4th - 0.75
    5th - 0.67
    Rev - 3.0

    Axle: - 3.73

    Final Drive Ratio: 3.73 with 4.7-liter or 5.7-liter engine

    Overall Top Gear: 2.50 with 3.73 axle


    But no denying. Diesels use less fuel.
    I've been keeping an eye on the "my diesel is broken" threads the last 2 weeks, vs the "my petrol is broken" threads. Have you?
    SWAMBO
    2009 Suzuki Grand Vitara 3.2i V6 Auto
    Me
    2003 Ford Focus 2.0

    Eurard: For T=2; T=1 but, 1/2T=

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