1999 to 2004 Grand Cherokee (long ... sorry!)

[Scubadude]

Hi guys!

About a year ago I was in the market for a 4x4 wagon and narrowed the search down to the Gen 2.5 Pajero and the WJ Grand Cherokee. Negative commentary on 4xforum swayed me away from the Jeep and by a strange twist of fate I bought a V6 Colt DC instead.

A recent trip to the Garden Route showed up a major shortcoming of double cabs when used as family transport: severly restricted in-cab space despite loads of cargo space. Twins in snug-and-safes, nappy bag, mobicool for milk, toy bag, and dad doing what he does best (driving) leaves precious little space for mum!

Now our twins are almost a year old and gues what? The wife is pregnant (again! -- singleton this time, thankfully!). The bakkie will just have to go and I once again find myself in the market for a station wagon type 4x4. I'd like to spend about R 150 000 to R 200 000 or maybe even less. In that price range your choices are Gen 2.5 / Gen 3 Pajero, Patrol, Defender (too much of a truck for me), Disco II, very old Cruiser, oldish Prado, a few soft roaders (most apealing to me being the X5 as a former BMW owner), Cherokee (too small), and again the Grand Cherokee.

Prices on the WJ Jeeps dropped by at least a third in the last year (some of this I suppose can be attributed to the general drop in used car prices, but also generally poor sentiment towards this car, or is it just oversupply ... how much lower can it go?) to the point that you can now buy early high mileage models for less than R 100k. The looks and performance (especially of the V8 appeals to me, and while I've never seen a Grand Cherokee in the wild, I have seen Cherokees which were generally capable off road save for low ground clearance in standard form. And I have to admit that with the latest pricing it looks like some bargains can be had here. Bear in mind that I do most (almost all) my driving on-road and owning a 4x4 is more a statement of the lifestyle I would like to reclaim once the new additions to my family gets gets out of nappies and malaria risk.

I know the early engine choices were dodgy but the 2.7 CRD and 4.7 V8 changed that. I also know that Grand Cherokee spares are pricey and it has a very poor reliability reputation .. but how much of this is fact and how much urban legend? The Grand Cherokee seems to represent real value and if I "budget" for a major breakdown or buy mechanical insurance, what would be the problem?

The closest thing to an objective list of problems with these cars can be found at http://consumerguideauto.howstuffwor...cherokee-6.htm which state the following:

1999-2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee: Reliability
Trouble Spots

Consumer Guide's® Auto Editors have scoured repair bulletins and questioned mechanics to search for commonly occurring problems for a particular vehicle. In some cases we also give possible manufacturer-suggested solutions. In many instances these trouble spots are Technical Service Bulletins posted by the manufacturer, however, we have our own expert looking at additional vehicle problems.

• Engine misfire: The powertrain-control module (engine computer) may have to be reprogrammed or replaced if the engine sags with the A/C on. (1999)
• Fuel odors: The gas tank may fill slowly because of a problem with the filler pipe, which has been revised, and there is also a revised gas cap to replace binding ones. (1999)
• Hard starting: Engine may be hard to start due to an internal leak or bits of plastic wedged inside the fuel-pump assembly. A new sealing ring or complete pump assembly could be required. (1999-2000)
• Hard starting: Faulty fuel pump assembly leads to low fuel pressure and long cranking times. (1999-2000)
• Oil leak: Gear lube may leak from the rear differential, especially after driven at highway speeds following cold soak, and is caused by oil coming out of the vent. Installing an accumulator on the vent line is necessary. (1999-04)
• Vehicle noise: Popping/snapping noises are usually corrected by replacing the front driveshaft. In many cases, that unit probably has a dry universal joint. (1999)
• Vehicle noise: Replacing the rear driveshaft eliminates a whining sound above 40 mph. (1999-2000)
• Vehicle shake: If camber alignment cannot be brought into spec, countermeasure offset ball joints are available. (1999-2000)

No great shakes there except front / rear driveshafts! So what are the problems? There has been some discussion at http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/...ead.php?t=6363 but I'm looking for more. Are there real owners out there (2nd hand if possible) and what are your experiences? If you had problems, what went wrong? How much did it cost to repair and how long did it take?

Maybe I'm just trying to convince myself like jdjoubert, but it sounds to me like you can buy a Jeep at a large discount, fork out cash for some nasty repairs in the middle and sell it in a few years' time at a substantial loss and still have a reasonable value proposition .... or am I rosy eyed?

Thanks guys and gals, much appreciated!

Francois

[jdjoubert]

Hi Francois

Ja dis noggal n mond vol wat jy skrywe ne?

All the points you have stated above is more or less how I have figured out the good and bad too.

But, just like all the bad points on the WJ Grand Cherokee, so I can also (with some digging around) get a few bad points on any and every 4x4 there is on the market. It does seem that the diffs are a problem on the Jeeps in general. The advise I got from most Jeep owners, if you buy second hand, is to make sure the vehicle has a record of its services. If there is no oil leaks underneath and you dont hear any bad or suspect noises while test driving, then it is a goog indication that it might be a good buy.

The 2 thing that worry me the most on the Jeep Grand Cherokee.

1. The part and services are expensive.

This is just one of those things. If I do get to find and then buy a Jeep Grand Cherokee, then I will just have to bite the bullet with this one. My Nissan Hardbody 4x2 3.2D Single cab, cost me +- R2500 every service. So another grand or so will not kill me.

2. The fuel consumption was my next worry.

It seems I can work around 4-6 km doing offroading, 6-8 km/l on the road mixed driving (4,7 V8). So far my Nissan gives me 8 - 9,5 km/l. I use to drive allot but not anymore. I now do +- 500 -600 km / month. (I use to do about 5000km/ month.
So I am not too worried that the fuel will kill me. It will however be expensive to do long trips. I just told myself that the fuel I saved during the normal driving around every month, will more than make up for a once a year trip of 5000 km to ,say Namibia.

I also think it is a good idea to fork out that extra R6000 warranty one gets at the garage. I think you can also get the warranty if you do go the private buing route.
On that note, I dont even look at the Jeeps that are parked at the garages. They (the garages) seems to add a little too much as frofit. I have also now seen that the garages will spend a couple of rand to make the underside of the 4x4's look like new. This way you can not see if the vehicle has been pulled through ones @ss. They respray the wheel arches, bonnets and side mirrors that has got scratches on, thinking the customer will then think that the vehicle has not been off road. I would rather buy it privately and chat to the owner. One can very quickly see when the owner is not telling the truth. Remember, as far as my experiance go with car dealerships, they all have poker faces. (((Not to "trap on anyones tone"))))

As far as going off road with a standard Jeep Grand Cherokee.... I had the oppertunity last week to drive with Andre in his diesel Jeep. It seems to go where all the rest went on that day, just with more luxury. Andre says that many people call the Jeep Grand Cherokee a "lazy mans 4x4" . Who cares, I for one am only going to use it a couple of times a year to do the commercial trails, and maby if I can afford it, a long trip to Namibia with some sand driving.

Hope you get to make a choice, and get to buy a Jeep.

jdjoubert

[Scubadude]

Hi jd!

Thanks for a quick reply!

Fuel consumption is not a big issue for me (company fleet card ). Neither does the cost of (regular) servicing bother me as you can plan for it. What I'm worried about is unplanned maintenance.

The guy camping next to us for many years bought a 1999 Laredo new. Until he "gave it back to Daimler Chrysler" (his words) in 2005 he had several heads blow, front drive shaft replaced, rear drive shaft replaced, gearbox rebuilt, power steering replaced, brake problems ... the list goes on and on and he did not even use it off road or for towing! Sounds worse than some of the worst Land Rover stories around

Question: is this an isolated incident or would buying a 2nd hand GC be like rushing headlong into a relationship with a pretty girl you just know is damaged goods and going to give you years of trouble before leaving you in the lurch ..... Or should I settle for a slightly ugly and overweight but dependable Pajero?

Some owners on www.carsurvey.org reckons it is the former. Of the reviews nearly half were negative. Some of them are quite funny ....

• Don't buy it used unless you have lots of money or its under warranty
• Good ingredient for lemonade
• Good vehicle if you have the time and money to make repairs all the time
• I anticipate this car will prove to be a financial nightmare.
• I could build a more reliable car out of last week's garbage
• I love my jeep, thank God I had money to fix all the problems
• I woke up, and my nightmare is still there
• It would be cool to see crushed by a monster truck
• Landcruiser here we come!
• Looks good as long as it is parked
• Money pit
• Near Scrap Hi Maintenance
• The Chicks dig it, but the wallet doesn't
• This could be the worst vehicle ever manufactured in history
• Worse reliability than a $100 car
• Would be cautious before buying another, husband says this is my last Jeep so I better enjoy it

For balance there were some very positive raves as well. However so many negative reviews .... remember most of these reviews were written by very patriotic American owners. Owners who chose the car and should therefore be generaly more complementary towards it.

Common Jeep owners ... defend your turf!

Francois

[Dirk]

Nor wanting to invite off topic comments and silly remarks, but have you look at a V8 Disco2?

The other obvious alternative is a Pajero. When I bought I compared the Jeep Grand Cherokee, Pajero and Disco2, the Jeep was tossed out very quickly, eventually settled on the Disco2 as the Pajero was quite a bit more.

When you start comparing space I think both the Pajero and the Disco2 will beat the Grand Cherokee hands down.

Funny and off topic comments WILL be deleted.

[Craigb]

Autotrader has 53 discoverys listed between R125 000 and R175 000 and 31 grand cherokees. Nice wide choice and I bet you could bargain them down.

These days you can call any dealer and get the service history on the vehicle, so you can pick a decent one.

I would go with a disco V8, but that is a totally unsubstantiated opinion

[Dirk]

In the used market I would agree with petrol, personally I would not buy a used turbo diesel vehicle, I've read enough horror stories about that, across all brands.

When I bought my TD5 I was warned that the V8 is very thirsty, obviously I listened to the wrong people, it seems that it is thirstier than the TD5, but not by that much.

Scubadude in the end if a dcab is not big enough then I think your choices are limited.

Another vehicle you should have a look at is the Isuzu Frontier, 3.2 petrol.

• Jeep Grand Cherokee
• Pajero LWB 3.5
• Discovery V8
• Isuzu Frontier V6 3.2

Go and drive a few, the driving experience between these vehicles are vastly different.

[Craigb]

I must say that I share the frustration on the space issue. Me and the wife and our daughter came back from holiday yesterday. Back was packed full and there wasn't even space for the dog on the back - so it was the missus and the daughter on the back seat and me and the dog in front

With the next little one due in feb, I may be sharing your search for new wheels.

A V8 disco with a 'ventertjie' should go a long way to solving my problems. I'll just strap the dog to the roof rack!

[gorman]

Having owned a Pajero before, you can't go wrong with them. Go with a blister fender model as they came with rear diff lock from the factory - it's something you'll definately need on a Paj as the front don't articulate well. Great cars!

[Engel]

What is wrong with a cruiser wagon as an alternative? Think it compares well with the rest in the market place. Unfortunately previous experiences contribute to your choice of vehicle. I think the old jeeps are better [more rugged] vehicles. The repair is a concern but there is plenty mechanics and part importers. Repair a cruiser or pajero engine and see what the cost will be then! I hate making choices like these as you will get a "I told you so" afterwards if something goes wrong.

[Andre]

Just in short. Bought my Jeep in April last year. Already did 26500km. NO problems, just normal services and brakes. Have never paid over R2000 for a service. Had it serviced at the Service Centre in Centurion while on leave in PTA, they also import some of their own parts.

[Engel]

Andre, ek het nog nie met een wrangler eienaar gepraat wat al probleme gehad het nie. Ek ken gladnie die ander jeeps in die reeks nie. Sal maar sien wat my jeepie doen

[Winston]

Maybe I'm just trying to convince myself like jdjoubert, but it sounds to me like you can buy a Jeep at a large discount, fork out cash for some nasty repairs in the middle and sell it in a few years' time at a substantial loss and still have a reasonable value proposition .... or am I rosy eyed?

Thanks guys and gals, much appreciated!

Francois

Hi Francios

I'm also new to this Jeep 4x4 thing. I did settle on a 2000 GC .
All 4x4 have their faults. Servicing and general maintance goes a long way to what happens with any vehicle.

My experience with the GC has not been too good , though this has more to do with what happened with the GC before I brought it. I was told that this and that had a look over, blou draad en insulation tape I wouldn't be able to say if this was the pervious owner.

A good thing though is that every thing is being fixed on their account.
a quick list:

Transmission oil leak. Leak was repaired?, but was overfilled and I don't know if Dextron was used
Diesel Injectors leaking. Closer inspection, Pratley steel over them. WTF
Heater Hose on water pump had a tear in, clamp was just tightened over the tear.
AC was regased, but no one checked to look for leaks.

Take the GC (or for that matter what you are buying) to the agents and have it scanned and checked in the engine bay. Then make them stress by taking the GC to an AA Test and Drive centre and have it retested. The money spent on a roadworthy is well spent, that's how I nailed the dealership that sold me the GC.

I have cracked the 10l/100km (9.4l/100km) barrier tank to tank in the GC driving miss daisy . Merc diesels aren't that bad, but I know many believe a Jeep should be fed petrol . It's your choice.

Now I'm just waiting for them to get the GC back

Just another thing the radios are and finding replacements are difficult (1,5 din units). Building my own.

[JeepOnly]

Hi Guys.
(Sorry for the spelling, but here goes. )

I have owned my 2000 model Wrangler TJ 4Lt sinse 2002 and if I have to sum it all up, I can only say that I LOVE THIS LITTLE JEEP and if I have anything to say about it's future, it will be in my yard for another 50 years.

I have been looking at various Grand Cherokees for quite a while and read as much about them on the large USA forums and have to be very honest, if you keep listening to your typical synical South African brothers, then you will probally never own anything as everything is yunk. Fact is that the WJ series Jeep's are very capable on and off road.

I recently started shopping around and ended up buying a GC 2001 model 4.7 V8 Limited and can only say that I have enjoyed every minute in this vehicle so far, and when or if niggles appear I will sort them out. I decided on a WJ series as this GC model is selling at very good prices as everyone who is anyone wants the latetes and the greatest model. (Another South African ailment, competing with the Jones's)

I must however also be very honest and say that if I could afford to spend much more, I may have looked at other vehicles also, and have previosly owned a 3lt petrol SWB Shogan (English version of the Pajero) a 3 lt Petrol LWB Pajero, A Diesel Toyota Landcruiser, and my favorite to date has been the Wrangler, but for the price the WJ Series Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited will be very hard to beat. I fully realise that this is a personal thing with many being for it and many against it, but I would not even look at a Diesel.

[Andre]

Hi

I am trying to clear up something. Has your GC a 4 or 5 speed gearbox?

Thanx

[Andre]

I always had the idea that my Jeep may have a 5speed gearbox as it only changes into its highest gear at 119km and the up shifts are so smooth it is mostly imperceptible to feel the changes. Now I have found the following on the Jeep UK club forum:
Transmission - Check you have the 5 speed patch - pre-2001 reg models were supplied 4 speed, but most dealers offered the patch later free to these models. You can tell if its 5 speed, go on a motorway, get the speed up to 70mph, the transmission should be quiet and revs bang on 2,000. if its 4spd, it will be louder, and revs will be between 2,500 & 3,000. makes a difference to fuel! Also check it shifts smoothly from 1st to second, if not, belts need adjusting and this is due to service intervals kept - nothing major but not covered by a general service.

[Winston]

Hi Andre

My tranny is a 45RFE, as I understand it, it's a 4 Speed / 5 Ratio tranny. The extra ratio is for the kickdown to 2nd and its a lower ratio than the normal 2nd.
Won't know untill I get the GC back, hopefully today.

Can you give the link to the forum to read-up. From other US based Q & A sites I understand that the add on was done to the V8

[Andre]

Hi Winston
Maybe you are correct but I have found that sometimes the Graz built RHD Jeeps differ from the USA models. Here is the link, look out for Mike Pavelin or Dr Mike as he is known, an ex Jeep employee and a real rocket scientist in Jeep matters. http://www.jeepclub.co.uk/forumindex.cfm

[Jeepster]

Sometime, somewhere in the future I'll buy myself a Grand Cherokee. First need to pay off the XJ Cherokee, as I don't plan on selling it. Nothing that I can replace it for the same money giving the same comfort and ability. Not that I would want to trade it in, unless it is to upgrade to a Grand Cherokee.