Toyota answers D4D 2Stroke in oil query




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  1. #1
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    Default Toyota answers D4D 2Stroke in oil query

    Hi All,

    In line with the ongoing thread about mixing 2 stroke oil in diesel fuel, I have contacted most of the vehicle OEM's and major fuel companies for comment.

    I have recieved some interresting replies and I am busy preparing a doc for publication here.

    The most interresting reply has been from Toyota SA.

    Please see unedited correspondence below. All I have done is highlighted a sentence and removed my personal contact details


    START

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Keith Duffield
    Sent: 25 October 2010 14:46
    To: 'PinkieBUBU (CCN)'
    Subject: RE: ToyotaCare Enquiry

    Hi,

    Thank you for the reply.

    Unfortunately it does not suit my needs.

    I would prefer a response from TSA as I do not believe that the dealers
    have the required expertise to do so, and should they OK the procedure I
    may still be at risk of TSA rejecting a warranty claim.

    Regards
    Keith Duffield

    -----Original Message-----
    From: PinkieBUBU (CCN) [mailto:[email protected]]
    Sent: 25 October 2010 10:35
    To: Keith Duffield
    Subject: ToyotaCare Enquiry


    Dear Keith Duffield

    We acknowledge receipt of your e-mail.

    With regards to your enquiry, all Toyota's technical staff is based at
    our authorized dealerships.
    Kindly contact any of the authorized Toyota
    dealerships and a qualified technician in the service department will
    assist with the information.

    Should you require any contact details for an approved Toyota
    dealership, please contact Customer Care on the toll free number 0800
    139 111 or visit our website.

    Kind Regards

    Pinkie Bubu
    Customer Relations
    Toyota South Africa
    Tel: 0800139111
    Fax: 0118092917
    ---------------------------
    From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
    Sent: 2010/10/22 11:59:27 AM
    To: [email protected]
    Cc: [email protected]
    Subject: ToyotaCare Enquiry
    ---------------------------

    The following Question was submitted by:

    Keith Duffield
    Email:=
    [email protected]
    Telephone: (08x)xcv-dhbn
    Submitted on:
    10/22/2010
    Message:
    Hi, would it be adviseable to add a bottle= of 2 stroke oil to very
    tank of fuel in a D4D.?=0D =0ARegards=0D=0A= =0D=0AKeith

    END

    So here is my question. How do Toyota make and support vehicles without any technical expertise in the factory?

    Whats the point of having a national customer support service if they just refer you back to the dealer. Eeiish.

    A most unsatisfactory and dare I say unintelligent answer.

    I sincerely hope that somebody from TSA sees this.

    Cheers
    Keith

    PS - Watch this space. All companies responded. I am waiting to finalise one more communication before I post.
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD Yeasu Ft-897D
    3 V8's
    A V6 and an inline 4
    The nice thing about going the extra mile - the road is never congested.

  2. #2
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    Default

    I have spoken to the guys at the dealerships and the answer is always, EISH.............
    LC 78 Troopie 1HD-FTE
    +27 zero eight 2 four 95 9252

  3. #3
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    Default

    Fluffy now THAT is one sentence I "dont agree with" -
    With regards to your enquiry, all Toyota's technical staff is based at
    our authorized dealerships


    When I had an issue with my Hilux's suspension the technical staff at Toyota was, uhm .. "not accurate" in their assecement of the issue. (PS I fitted Ironman as another set of Toyota shocks/springs would hardly cope with my needs, thus I did not persue this issue. Yet, I have serious doubts about the skill level of the guys at Toyota -and told them so after SHOWING them the correct diagnoses and solution)

  4. #4
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    Default TSA and technical questions

    I e-mailed a technical question to TSA and was referred to the local dealership.
    Asked the dealership, same question, and was refered to TSA.

    I am too old to play on the merry-go-round.

  5. #5
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    Default

    Why don't you try Toyota overseas? I mean they design the stuff?

  6. #6
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    Default

    Hi Fluffy,

    where are you going to post the final document.
    I would love to see the various manufacturers' responses.

    regards
    VW Touareg V6 Tdi Escape
    Bush Lapa Boskriek 816

  7. #7
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    Default Phone

    Hi,

    By some strange co-incidence I got a personal phone call from TSA this morning.

    Thank you TSA
    Keith
    Last edited by Fluffy; 2010/10/27 at 09:35 PM.
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD Yeasu Ft-897D
    3 V8's
    A V6 and an inline 4
    The nice thing about going the extra mile - the road is never congested.

  8. #8
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    Default

    And what did they say?

  9. #9
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    Default Same

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogaards View Post
    And what did they say?
    Hi,

    Sorry I would prefer not to say at this stage. It will just open up another debate.

    Rather we have one large debate as apposed to several small ones.

    Cheers
    Keith
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD Yeasu Ft-897D
    3 V8's
    A V6 and an inline 4
    The nice thing about going the extra mile - the road is never congested.

  10. #10
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    Default

    Doesn't sound promising?

  11. #11
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    Default

    Fluffy if you would, please PM me - all I need to know is the official stance of Toyota on mixing the 2 stroke .... did they comment on the principle of a second filter ...

  12. #12
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    No No Chris, You can't be the only one to know

    Fluffy will then have to PM all of us

    On a more serious note, I would really like to hear the official stance. Seeing as I already went through a set of injectors Would really like to avoid that again.
    VW Touareg V6 Tdi Escape
    Bush Lapa Boskriek 816

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    Lets hope this is sorted on all the new models coming out in the future...

  14. #14
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    Default Moral Dilemma

    Hi Guys,

    I have a problem.

    I have spoken to many major OEMs and fuel companies and received many responses.

    The problem is that I contacted them and asked a simple question. "I have an XYZ car, can I use a bottle of 2 stroke in every tank of diesel" Nowhere did I mention that I would post their answers on a public forum.

    Morally I feel it is unfair to publish the info on a public forum without permission.

    HOWEVER, I have completed my doc which contains all the details, including all contact numbers etc. I will happily PM it to anybody that promises not to publish same in the public domain. In the light of recent withdrawals of forum complaints, I would prefer to have Dirks blessing here.

    AND, I am busy removing sensitive info (names of companies etc) from the doc, which I will post tomorrow morning.

    Cheers
    Keith
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD Yeasu Ft-897D
    3 V8's
    A V6 and an inline 4
    The nice thing about going the extra mile - the road is never congested.

  15. #15
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    Default

    I would be interested and PROMISE I will not tell anybody

    I have been using 2 stroke on and off and chatted to my preferred indie about it earlier this week and was surprised that they do not recommend it. Says it clogs up injectors and Landies and Nissans apparently are particularly prone to this.

    I had an injector issue with one of the injectors of my car soon after I bought it, but 60k km later and still no problem. One would think that at least some of them would have had problems too, maybe its the 2 stroke, maybe not
    camelman
    '04 Discovery II Td5 GS (using 2SO)
    '95 Discovery I V8i Auto (Now sadly sold, with fond memories)
    Yesterday is history, tomorrow is mystery, today is a gift, that's why its called "present".

  16. #16
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    Hi Guys,

    I have a problem.

    I have spoken to many major OEMs and fuel companies and received many responses.

    The problem is that I contacted them and asked a simple question. "I have an XYZ car, can I use a bottle of 2 stroke in every tank of diesel" Nowhere did I mention that I would post their answers on a public forum.

    Morally I feel it is unfair to publish the info on a public forum without permission.

    HOWEVER, I have completed my doc which contains all the details, including all contact numbers etc. I will happily PM it to anybody that promises not to publish same in the public domain. In the light of recent withdrawals of forum complaints, I would prefer to have Dirks blessing here.

    AND, I am busy removing sensitive info (names of companies etc) from the doc, which I will post tomorrow morning.

    Cheers
    Keith
    This is starting to become a joke. This is a public forum and if a supplier is going to have a problem with information being given out here then they should not give out that information to the public in the first place.
    Since when has the SA consumer become so afraid of suppliers.


    MUD - The all natural and essential beauty cream for your Jeep........

    Johan
    2002 WJ OVERLAND 4.7 HO

  17. #17
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    Default

    Boggom I DO understand Fluffy's dilema though. Often when speaking to a specialist they "mention" a few things and then later indicate that it might be "sensitive". For instance an engineer at a particular company MIGHT know of a particular issue - yet be powerless to impress on the Japanese designers, and prohibeted from speaking out ....


    Fluffy when you are ready please PM me as much as you are comfortable with to send. Punch line I have 8 000km on my D-4d and in the horrible position where I KNOW that I should do a few things to protect the engine - yet my dealer principle will void my warantee if I do this .....

  18. #18
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    Default

    Me thinks - two-stroke oil does for certain diesel vehicle owners exacly the same placebo does for certain elderly people.
    *
    When you are dead, you don't know that you are dead. It is difficult only for the others.

    It is the same when you are stupid.

  19. #19
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    Default OK

    Quote Originally Posted by Boggom View Post
    This is starting to become a joke. This is a public forum and if a supplier is going to have a problem with information being given out here then they should not give out that information to the public in the first place.
    Since when has the SA consumer become so afraid of suppliers.
    Hi Boggom,

    You convinced me.

    My motivation is this.

    I really do understand the potential benefits of using 2 stroke in fuel, especially if you are in an area where the diesel is suspect. Also on an older technology motor it can only be beneficial.

    My concern however was the use of 2 stroke in really modern high tech/performance motors that are still under maintenance or warrantee.

    I also have a suspicion that some of the advocators of the use of 2 stroke have a hidden agenda, be it male EGO or financial, I dont know.

    I have mentioned previously that I have contacts/family very highly placed in the industry, who ensure me that the fuel we get from the pumps is totally adequate and has been developed in close liason with the major OEM's.

    OK so here goes.


    START

    All telephonic responses as verbatim as possible.
    Responses up until now.
     
    VW Telephonic Response - 2010/10/25 13h32 -

    VW Technical do not support or advise using 2 Stroke oil in their diesel cars.

    Shell SA - Telephonic response - 2010/1022 - 12h00

    In a nutshell - What a lot of hogwash - Don’t do it - 2 Stroke has a higher boiling point - will cause deposits on injectors - will wash away additives in the V-Power diesel that are meant to coat and lubricate injection system.

    Shell have requested links to posts on forums for them to investigate and revert with answers. I have done so and am in contact with Shell expert and awaiting further response.

    BP SA

    Good day Sir

    Please read comment from our technical team below.

    Thanks & regards
    Denise

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Dawood, Cassim
    Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 12:00 PM
    To: October, Denise L; Cock, Peter B
    Subject: RE: 2 stroke oil in diesel

    Never heard of it. Do exactly what the car's handbook/ manufacturer
    tells you.

    Best Regards,

    Cassim Dawood
    Technical Manager,
    BP Global Fuels Technology
    Parktown, Johannesburg,
    Tel: +27-(0)11- 488 5405
    Rightfax: +27-(0)11- 488 5920
    Mobile: +27- (0)72 440 4620
    E mail: [email protected]

    ENGEN

    Good day Keith Duffield;
    Thank for your enquiry to Engen; please be advised that Engen does not recommend the adding or spiking of fuels. Engen fuels are manufactured to the South African National Standard (SANS) and the Original Equipment Manufacture (OEM). The use of Two Stroke oil was used when people were using Paraffin for the use in there diesel driven vehicles. This is an illegal offence and it was being done to try and save cost. Although paraffin and diesel are very similar in there character and specification paraffin unfortunately does not have the lubrication properties of diesel and therefore the idea of adding two stroke oil came about. This is detrimental to the engine due to incorrect doses which causes chemical reactions which in turn are harmful to the engine. With regards to the low sulphur diesel, the latest diesel engines are designed to operate on this type of diesel, after treatment devices like “Diesel Particulate Filters” (DPF) are fitted to vehicles to reduce Greenhouse Gases. If two stroke oil is added to this mixture it will cause damage to the vehicles DPF which in turn is connected the vehicles Management System and therefore cause further damage.
    I hope this explanation is understandable and if there are any further questions please do not hesitate to contact Engen CSC Technical.

    Regards;
    Mario Vester
    Technical Advisor
    Customer Service Centre
    Engen Petroleum (Pty) Ltd.
    PO Box
    35
    Cape Town 8000
    Toll Free. 08000 36436 x3
    Fax. 0800 111002
    Email. [email protected]

    CALTEX

    Good day

    This practice is something that's circulating on various internet motoring forums and blogs. It certainly isn't a recommendation that the OEM (Range Rover in this instance) would make. We would strongly advise against the enquirer doing this. The vehicle mentioned below is a late model one (possibly) requiring 50 ppm low sulphur diesel. Adding 2T oil to the fuel could contribute to fuel injector deposits, and if the vehicle is equipped with a diesel particulate filter and other exhaust after-treatment equipment, fouling could result. Furthermore, the vehicle warranty could be invalidated.

    I trust this helps.


    Kind regards
    Liana Pamplin
    Chevron S.A (Pty) Ltd
    0860 30 0860
    0860 39 0860
    [email protected]


     
    TOYOTA

    Initially unsatisfactory E-Mail response.

    Telephonic response - 2010/10/27 - Why would you want to do that, if it causes a problem you will loose your warranty.

    Land Rover SA
    Telephonic response - 2010/10/27 - We are aware of this trend on the internet. Definitely not recommended.

    TOTAL

    Telephonic response - 20/10/28 - Do not use 2 stroke in your fuel - It will leave deposits that may damage your engine.

    END

    OK, make up your owm minds.

    For me,

    Pre 2006 diesel engine, overlanding, 2 stroke YES.

    Post 2007 diesel engine, under warrantee, driving in SA, using 50/500ppm fuel from reputable high volume retailers NO

    Cheers
    Keith
    Last edited by Fluffy; 2010/10/28 at 10:24 AM. Reason: Added Total SA response.
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD Yeasu Ft-897D
    3 V8's
    A V6 and an inline 4
    The nice thing about going the extra mile - the road is never congested.

  20. #20
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    Default Push

    Hi All,

    I have just posted some of my findings.

    In reality the responses were actually predictable with no real meat.

    Perhaps if many many people bombardered the fuel companies and OEMs and demanded real answers we could force them into making an official public statement.

    Cheers
    Keith
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD Yeasu Ft-897D
    3 V8's
    A V6 and an inline 4
    The nice thing about going the extra mile - the road is never congested.

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