Used JK Petrol vs Diesel Purchase Cost vs Consumption Costs...





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  1. #1
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    Default Used JK Petrol vs Diesel Purchase Cost vs Consumption Costs...

    Hello All

    Ok I'm sure this has been asked somewhere before but couldn't find this exact question...

    I see that the purchase price for used JK's (2 door and 4 door) a Rubicon is normally R 20 000 to R 30 000 cheaper than the Sahara CRD for similar year / mileage.

    NOW, where the boffins with calculators come in...

    How much mileage would one do before actually spending that R 20 000 extra on fuel for the petrol?

    It seems the CRD does about 12l/100km (worst case) and the 3.8 V6 does 16l/100km (correct ?)...

    SO...4l / 100km extra @ R 8 (currently) = R 32 extra per 100 km (sounds bad already).

    R 20 000 / R 32 = 625 x 100km = 62 500 km...

    If I do 3 000 km / month that's nearly 21 months before you are actually seeing the benefit of the CRD's frugality (let's leave 460nM out of the equation for now).

    So is a JK petrol actually not so bad when you look at the saving on your instalment vs your petrol bill?

    And if I got a 3.8 Sport with AC and put on 33's and a 2 inch lift it's gonna be more than capable enough for 95 % of offroading eg Mozam, Sani the occasional play session...and will be about R 40 000 cheaper...

    It seems the CRD would do about 700 km on a tank and the V6 about 530 km (can anyone confirm / deny).

    CRD @ 3 000 km / month = 360 l @ R 8 = R 2 880 (ouch when you see the figure)
    V6 @ 3 000 km / month = 480 l @ R 8 = R 3 840 (really ouch)

    FINALLY - examples

    V6 @ R 230 000 = approx R 5 200 / month @ 12 % 60 months no deposit
    CRD @ R 260 000 = approx R 5 800 / month @ 12 % 60 months no deposit

    = R 600 saving on instalment vs R 960 loss on fuel...

    Ah ha..so diesel may still be cheaper?

    I did fail matric maths so this could be wrong =)

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    i will pay the difference for the roar of the V6.... but hey thats just me....
    "Blue Thunder"
    Gert Ferreira
    2004 Hardbody 3.3 V6 D/C 4x4 SEL

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    about right Andrew...

    but reality is the consumption figures are different depending on where you live and your right foot.

    I see mine (CRD) up to 14l/100km... I hear about V6s over 20l/100km and under 10!!!

    A sport has a manual box which will certainly give you better consumption over an auto, I think only V6 in sport though...

    dunno about maintenance outside of motorplan, but the CRD is every 20 000km, and the V6 every 12500km and more bits to change at a service, so probably the diesel is cheaper - as it's a new generation.

    I imagine neither will be cheap to fix in terms of catastrophic failure...

    never heard of either of them packing up though except for 1 CRD which had a damaged radiator after an accident and the guy drove it til it blew up. not really the vehicle's fault...

    I've got 45 000km on mine, was 50k more than a V6 Sahara. I figure I've saved about half of the money extra on fuel already, and as you say, I'll get more for it on resale so about even.

    the V6 is a far quieter and more refined motor I will say...

    the diesel auto box seems nicer to me....

    the question is really whether you like the 400N.m and extra range

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    I Must just warn you that you do not get 700km on a 2 door JK CRD. That tank is as big as a 2 year old's bladder. 65 liter iirc, but the problem is the gauge. I get about 400-500km then the light comes on. I HATE driving with the light on so for all practical purposes I get 400km on a tank. On the long road I drove it till the trip computer stopped showing any figures, it just said FUEL LOW! after that I worked out i still had 10l left in the tank.

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    When doing this type of comparison it is valid for new vehicles BUT for second hand vehicles one needs to consider the usually much higher cost and probability of an turbo diesel engine vs NA petrol engine failure. In this I include turbo failure as well as major injection service ie. pump and injectors. Especially if the vehicle is out of warranty. IMHO the diesel then becomes a much more expensive option.

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    Please do not compare a crd to a Rubicon, they are NOT the same!!!

    You need to compare a CRD to a Sahara spec petrol wrangler. The Rubicon is upgraded, to tell the difference look at the bumpers, if colour coded it is Sahara, if black it is a Rubicon. (Rubicon is petrol, automatic only in the 4 door.)

    Rubicon additional features rear and front lockers, rocksliders, electronic swaybar disconnect, upgraded axles/diffs, 4.1 low range. (ie you want a Rubicon!)

    You live at the coast, not sure what your driving style is like, but here's my thoughts.

    Granny Style 16-18l/100km
    Less granny 18-20l/100km
    Enjoy the Jeep - 20-22l/100km
    Hit the sand at 0.6bar, expect 25-35l/100km!

    Strong headwind with 4 people in the Jeep, 25l/100km.
    Strong tailwind with 4 people in the Jeep, 17l/100km.

    Fit a roofrack, increase consumption.
    Fit a lift, increase consumption.
    Fit bigger tyres, increase consumption.

    Travel inland to the big smoke, expect to see a drop right down to 13l/100km!

    Own experience above....(I enjoy my Jeep @ 20l/100km.....)
    Last edited by Dirk; 2010/10/13 at 08:14 PM.

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    I dunno vanzan, I would agree with you on older mechanical injection motors... the modern direct injection motors are way better - first off the pump is the same as a petrol motor - in the tank!!! no servicing and resetting!!! injectors last longer because the mixture is better... services are further apart than petrol... 20 000km CRD vs 12 500 V6

    turbos.. don't know how they will last...

    I don't think a modern diesel motor is any worse than a petrol motor these days....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirk View Post
    Please do not compare a crd to a Rubicon, they are NOT the same!!!

    You need to compare a CRD to a Sahara spec petrol wrangler. The Rubicon is upgraded, to tell the difference look at the bumpers, if colour coded it is Sahara, if black it is a Rubicon. (Rubicon is petrol, automatic only in the 4 door.)

    Rubicon additional features rear and front lockers, rocksliders, electronic swaybar disconnect, upgraded axles/diffs. (ie you want a Rubicon!)

    You live at the coast, not sure what your driving style is like, but here's my thoughts.

    Granny Style 16-18l/100km
    Less granny 18-20l/100km
    Enjoy the Jeep - 20-22l/100km
    Hit the sand at 0.6bar, expect 25-35l/100km!

    Strong headwind with 4 people in the Jeep, 25l/100km.
    Strong tailwind with 4 people in the Jeep, 17l/100km.

    Fit a roofrack, increase consumption.
    Fit a lift, increase consumption.
    Fit bigger tyres, increase consumption.

    Travel inland to the big smoke, expect to see a drop right down to 13l/100km!

    Own experience above....(I enjoy my Jeep @ 20l/100km.....)

    just 'cos your front diff is stronger

    yes - Sahara CRD vs Sahara V6 - rubicon has the V6 plus a lower range t/case plus stronger diffs plus diff locks and sway bar disconnect and shorter ratios in the diffs... same hifi and other specs. very good value for the extra over a sahara I think, if you want a petrol.

    bumpers are all the same - and they all fall off just as easily - all black, fender flares are black on the Rubicon (and the early sports I think) Sahara V6 and CRD share the same spec except the motor and gearbox - diffs are the same but with different ratios...

    plus you get the sport 4 door - 2007, no hard top, half doors, 16" mags and manual transmission. then there were UK spec Saharas - no soft top, no upgraded speaker system, alarm, bonnet lock and manual 4 door....

    and sport 2 door, I think they are great value for money, 275k new...

    so do look out for the spec you are buying!!!

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    I forgot about the early sport model JK's!
    And now with them introducing the Mountain spec ones it will confuse even more. I think it is time for a comprehensive thread detailing all the JK's available in SA from 2007 onwards and their differences.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    I dunno vanzan, I would agree with you on older mechanical injection motors... the modern direct injection motors are way better - first off the pump is the same as a petrol motor - in the tank!!! no servicing and resetting!!! injectors last longer because the mixture is better... services are further apart than petrol... 20 000km CRD vs 12 500 V6

    turbos.. don't know how they will last...

    I don't think a modern diesel motor is any worse than a petrol motor these days....
    Oh yes, they are .................
    1. They are noisy
    2. They STINK
    3. The power band is still to narrow
    4. They need TURBO's to make enough power to drive a toothbrush
    5. Have I mentioned that the exhaust fumes STINK ?
    6. Irrespective of the service intervals, I am convinced that over the lifetime of the vehicle the service costs will be higher
    7. When they break, they are definitely more expensive to repair (You can buy a reconditioned 4.7 V8 petrol engine for R28 k from American SUV)
    8. Do you realize how noisy and STINKY they are ?

    All that said, as long as it's a Jeep, it could be powered by fumes derived from camel dung for all I care, it'll be great.

    Oh, before I forget, Diesel exhaust fumes STINK .................

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    Thys - you have driven the CRD... NARROW POWER BAND?

    I suppose so - it only has power and torque from 1000rpm to 4000rpm....

    it does rattle a little. and can smell of old socks sometimes....

    oh - and 500km into the desert it will still have power and torque 'cos it still HAS FUEL

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    Quote Originally Posted by apocalypse View Post
    thys - you have driven the crd... Narrow power band?
    it goes well in auto form, i admit, but i suspect a manual will be like rowing across the atlantic, using the gear lever as a paddle.

    i suppose so - it only has power and torque from 1000rpm to 4000rpm.... ;d ;d
    my v8 makes power and torque all the way to 6000 rpm, from idle ........

    it does rattle a little. And can smell of old socks sometimes....

    Oh - and 500km into the desert it will still have power and torque 'cos it still has fuel ;d ;d ;d
    phixed. >:d

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThysleRoux View Post
    phixed. >:d
    you forgot the bit where the Petrol has power and torque all the way from the petrol station to 300km away

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    you forgot the bit where the Petrol has power and torque all the way from the petrol station to 300km away
    That's what the Jerry's invented Cans for, Apoc

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    Maybe give some idea of what you will be using the vehicle for.

    Towing lots of offroad will see you leaning economally toward the diesel. Petrols really start using fuel when under load. If you plan to do trips into bots or where you will spend several days grinding away in 4x4 away from a fuel pump the diesel will make more sense.

    Unfortunetly the Jeep diesel/ petrol debate boils down to sound and the better spec (rubicon) found in the petrols. If you had a diesle rubicon I think this conversation would be very different!!!
    Talk softly, carry a big stick.

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    Biggles is 100% correct!!!

    Diesel with DANA 44s and lockers...

    I like the motor, ratios and transfer case just as they are, Diffs are too weeny.

    one day...


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    Hey guys...thanks for all the feedback.

    I'm well aware of the differences in the specs - the Rubicon is basically the business in terms of strength and off road features.

    I will be commuting about 100km / day and then on weekends probably once a month do a 500 km trip.

    When I worked at Land Rover I used to get close to 10l/100km on a Defender which is the official fuel consumption but somehow I think that the 11.8 of the Wrangler 3.8 Sport 2 door quoted in Car Magazine is optimistic (euphemistic?) to say the least!

    I would need roof racks as I do canoeing so the hard top would either have to be bought for a Sport or I'd need to go Sahara / Rubicon. This will also not exactly help the Aerodynamically Challenged Wrangler...

    I would want to do a 2 inch lift, 33's (maybe AT's which would not be AS bad as MT's), Bushwacker flat fenders, something like the Rugged Ridge XHD centre section (no winch) bumper and rock sliders - which would all add weight...

    I go to Mozam twice a year and enjoy playing a bit around KZN with more trips to Zambia / Bots etc in the future and I think the above mods would more than take care of all of this.

    Am I correct in saying that even on the 2 door Sahara CRD there is only Auto i.e. all of the Diesels are auto only?

    It's only the girlfriend and I currently but when we go away for weekends etc I suppose the 2 door has no space for 4 people and luggage...

    Eish...I dunno...not going to happen right now anyway but it's good fun researching accessories and building the dream car without having to pay for it...yet...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew5336 View Post
    ... and I think the above mods would more than take care of all of this.
    No, its not over yet ...

    I suppose the 2 door has no space for 4 people and luggage...
    take the 4 door, then you'll also have space for the LR fuel tank ;-)

    http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/...ad.php?t=65915
    Last edited by JeepNuts; 2010/10/16 at 12:01 AM. Reason: bad link


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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew5336 View Post
    Hey guys...thanks for all the feedback.

    I'm well aware of the differences in the specs - the Rubicon is basically the business in terms of strength and off road features.

    I will be commuting about 100km / day and then on weekends probably once a month do a 500 km trip.

    When I worked at Land Rover I used to get close to 10l/100km on a Defender which is the official fuel consumption but somehow I think that the 11.8 of the Wrangler 3.8 Sport 2 door quoted in Car Magazine is optimistic (euphemistic?) to say the least!

    I would need roof racks as I do canoeing so the hard top would either have to be bought for a Sport or I'd need to go Sahara / Rubicon. This will also not exactly help the Aerodynamically Challenged Wrangler...

    I would want to do a 2 inch lift, 33's (maybe AT's which would not be AS bad as MT's), Bushwacker flat fenders, something like the Rugged Ridge XHD centre section (no winch) bumper and rock sliders - which would all add weight...

    I go to Mozam twice a year and enjoy playing a bit around KZN with more trips to Zambia / Bots etc in the future and I think the above mods would more than take care of all of this.

    Am I correct in saying that even on the 2 door Sahara CRD there is only Auto i.e. all of the Diesels are auto only?

    It's only the girlfriend and I currently but when we go away for weekends etc I suppose the 2 door has no space for 4 people and luggage...

    Eish...I dunno...not going to happen right now anyway but it's good fun researching accessories and building the dream car without having to pay for it...yet...
    I have a 2 door Rubicon 6 speed Manual. My needs are much the same as yours and I am very happy. With just me and the girlfriend in the Jeep and the rear seats removed there is PLENTY of space when going on holiday. More space than you would have in the unlimited with 4 people in the Jeep, IMO. I can even fit a standard drawer system with fridge in the back, which is on my ever increasing to do list.

    If you have plans on expanding the family any time soon, I would not consider the 2 door. However if you are going to be 2 people when going on holiday, want the most capable JK (SWB and less weight), want lower fuel consumption and lower purchase cost, I say go with a low mileage 2 door Rubicon. I also love the 6 speed manual transmission but that is just a personal preference.

    This is just my 2c worth, you will be satisfied regardless of your choice. A word of warning though, if you are not ready to purchase I would be careful not to research too intensely. I fell into that trap, I thought "let me just quickly have a look", a week later I was driving a Rubicon and had no idea how it happened .

    Apocolypse, I have just one question with regards to the Diesel. Is it "tolerant" of lower grade diesel you likely to find north of our borders? I am not a boffin on this stuff and am just curious.
    Isuzu KB 250 4x4 DC

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThysleRoux View Post
    Oh yes, they are .................
    [LIST=1][*]They are noisy
    It's like the sound of a Harley - you either like it or you don't! I have not one day wished I rather went for the Rubicon.
    Jacques Pienaar

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    Lycan 29"MTB 27spd (When I'm broke)
    Jurgens XT140

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