A bit confused after snatch demo at LA Sport Show





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  1. #1
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    Default LA Sport show - Feedback

    I was there on Sunday, must say I was impressed with the number of products on display. Show was well organised and everyone very helpful, offering advise, etc
    What concerned me was the recovery demonstration by the Voetspore team, due to the following:

    1 - Bridals used, but no safety sling, they merely use them to anchor the vehicle in the centre
    2 - Spectators very close to the rope, less than 2m away
    3 - Recovering in reverse, actually snatching in reverse, how long will those diffs last?
    4 - No mention of safety, no blankets or other objects palced on top of the pofadder rope in case something goes wrong
    5 - Advise: If you get stuck, first get out a cold beer, finish it, then have a look and check how you can recover the vehicle

    Is it just me, or is the above a recipe for disaster? No wonder people get injured in a recovery - this would have been an ideal time to discuss and over-emphasise the safety aspects that should be adhered to

    Well done to LA Sport for a well organised and very well attended event, looking forward to next year
    Christo Davids
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christo Davids View Post
    I was there on Sunday, must say I was impressed with the number of products on display. Show was well organised and everyone very helpful, offering advise, etc
    What concerned me was the recovery demonstration by the Voetspore team, due to the following:

    1 - Bridals used, but no safety sling, they merely use them to anchor the vehicle in the centre
    2 - Spectators very close to the rope, less than 2m away
    3 - Recovering in reverse, actually snatching in reverse, how long will those diffs last?
    4 - No mention of safety, no blankets or other objects palced on top of the pofadder rope in case something goes wrong
    5 - Advise: If you get stuck, first get out a cold beer, finish it, then have a look and check how you can recover the vehicle

    Is it just me, or is the above a recipe for disaster? No wonder people get injured in a recovery - this would have been an ideal time to discuss and over-emphasise the safety aspects that should be adhered to

    Well done to LA Sport for a well organised and very well attended event, looking forward to next year
    Christo,

    I'll apologise now for having a go but let's look at your post, at a LA Sport show they are demonstrating this type of recovery, your spot on by saying it is recipe for disaster. My point, why would you follow that with "Well done to LA Sport for a well organised and very well attended event", it obviously wasn't that well organised if they allow this kind of demonstration!!!

    Maybe they should of employed Mudz for the show so they could demonstrate what their recovery methods could do

    LA Sport should be wrapped over the knuckles for allowing such demonstration. When will people learn
    Rich

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    Default A bit confused after snatch demo at LA Sport Show

    I was feeling a bit confused after watching the snatch recovery demo given by the Voetspore guys at the LA Sport Show this weekend. The recovery was first done in reverse, no safety straps were used and D-shackles were used to attach the bridle to the cruzer's recovery points, instead of bow shackles.

    Now I have been taught that doing all these things is wrong, hence my confusion.

    1) Recovering in reverse - I've been taught that most 4x4s are not as 'strong' in reverse and that one should avoid doing this as one risks damage to one's diff.

    2) Not using safety straps (from bridle to vehicle). I've been taught that this helps to reduce/prevent the snatch strap/rope from becoming a missile if a shackle breaks or a recovery point comes loose.

    3) Using D-shackles to connect the bridle to the vehicle - I've been taught that one should rather use bow shackles as they can handle being pulled in any direction, whereas a D-shackle is not nearly as strong if it is being pulled to the side.

    Please bear in mind that I am a novice off-roader and have never participated in a snatch recovery. I also have enormous respect for the Voetspore guys and acknowledge that they have huge experience in all things 4x4 related, so this is not meant to be a criticism, but rather something I hope to learn from.

    Can anyone comment on whether or not this demo was done 'correctly', or is it my understanding of snatch recoveries that is flawed/incomplete?

    PS Congrats LA Sport on an awesome show! Here are a few pics . . .
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    Stuart

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    Default

    I too am a novice so my opinion does not count, however I would, with respect, say that the recovery goes against most of the methods that I have been taught.
    David Wolmarans

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    I am sure you will be merged with this thread in mere moments slodj..

    http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/...ad.php?t=58045

    I am sure Jeep Luvva said it all already...

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    Thumbs up

    The recovery they did was more for spectator value than a training session. And besides, I am sure they have done more recoveries that most members on this forum, and have found a way that works for them.

    Is it different than the way we might do it? Yes. But I believe experience is the best teacher. And until I have more than them I will not critisize.

    A very good show LA sports.

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Morne Snyman View Post
    The recovery they did was more for spectator value than a training session. And besides, I am sure they have done more recoveries that most members on this forum, and have found a way that works for them.

    Is it different than the way we might do it? Yes. But I believe experience is the best teacher. And until I have more than them I will not critisize.

    A very good show LA sports.
    Fair play, you don't need to criticise but while you are gathering your experience, try stay further than 2m away from recoveries otherwise you have the potential of getting very little experience

    Be interested to see what Engel thinks of their demonstration (which was obviously to kill time than educate)??
    Rich

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morne Snyman View Post
    The recovery they did was more for spectator value than a training session. And besides, I am sure they have done more recoveries that most members on this forum, and have found a way that works for them.

    Is it different than the way we might do it? Yes. But I believe experience is the best teacher. And until I have more than them I will not critisize.

    A very good show LA sports.

    Morne,
    Even if they have done more recoveries than most forum member, the fact stays, if you show how to... you should do it the right way. What will happen is, some newby would see that and copy it ..... as it was shown.

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    Morne - ons het laas naweek 'n ligte recovery gedoen - net 'n ou klein trekkie - met 'n D-shackle. Die volgende keer toe hulle die D-Shakcle uithaal vir 'n redelike maklike recovery maak ek toe spotender gewys beswaar daarteen. Die einaar speel toe saam en gaan haal 'n Bow shackle. Na die recovery sien ons toe daai D-Shackle was gekraak op (as ek reg onthou) 3 plekke!!! van die eerste recovery. Nou snatch hulle alweer tussen mense met een!
    Everything is a hammer.
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    Then it it a chisel.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uys View Post
    Morne - ons het laas naweek 'n ligte recovery gedoen - net 'n ou klein trekkie - met 'n D-shackle. Die volgende keer toe hulle die D-Shakcle uithaal vir 'n redelike maklike recovery maak ek toe spotender gewys beswaar daarteen. Die einaar speel toe saam en gaan haal 'n Bow shackle. Na die recovery sien ons toe daai D-Shackle was gekraak op (as ek reg onthou) 3 plekke!!! van die eerste recovery. Nou snatch hulle alweer tussen mense met een!
    Anyone keen to translate (vir 'n dom soutie)
    Rich

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    Ek het nie die D shackle gesien nie, dit het soos 'n bow shackle gelyk.

    Translated. Uys said they used a d shackle and not bow shackles, I did not see this and can not comment.

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    You can do it wrong a million times. It still won't make it right.

    Take DVR as an example. He has played with that Jeep a million times. Accidents happen just to easily.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henris View Post
    You can do it wrong a million times. It still won't make it right.

    Take DVR as an example. He has played with that Jeep a million times. Accidents happen just to easily.
    That is why they are called accidents, it does not mean someone did something wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeep Luvva View Post
    Anyone keen to translate (vir 'n dom soutie)
    Morne, last week we did a light recovery, just a small tug, using a D shackle. The next time a recovery was needed they pulled out the D shackle again, however this time I decided to complain a bit and told them to use a Bow shackle.
    The owner accepted this advice and fetched a Bow. After the recovery was finished we in inspected the D and found it to be cracked in three places (if I remember correctly), all this after one light tug!
    And now they are actually using a D amongst people of all things.

    Understand!
    David Wolmarans

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    I was also there, and noticed that. I guess they were more trying to demonstrate the actual pull without too much emphasis on all of the safety aspects. By way of example, at about noon they did a winch extraction using a wheel dug deep into the sand (we all know you should be nowhere near), and they (this was LASport guys not Voetspoere) did explain the safety aspects and how far one should be etc. Also they explained that they didn't intentionally really bog the vehicles down.

    I enjoyed the show, Pieter Koen, Miss LA Sport as well

    However, I'm in the market for a winch, and I got such sh%ty service from the one fellow there (he was downright rude, and unwilling to provide me with the specs for a T-Max) that I will never buy from them again.....

    It's so easy to loose business nowadays!!!!
    Regards
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morne Snyman View Post
    That is why they are called accidents, it does not mean someone did something wrong.
    That is besides the point, the point is that a demonstration at a show should be done professionally and responsibly. By reading Christo's post, this wasn't the case. There is already a thread with a relative newby asking if the procedure was correct. Fortunately for him, he asked.

    Doing something wrong over and over will never make it right, if you have had PROPER training, forget their experience, you would already be more experienced than them!
    Rich

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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidW View Post
    Morne, last week we did a light recovery, just a small tug, using a D shackle. The next time a recovery was needed they pulled out the D shackle again, however this time I decided to complain a bit and told them to use a Bow shackle.
    The owner accepted this advice and fetched a Bow. After the recovery was finished we in inspected the D and found it to be cracked in three places (if I remember correctly), all this after one light tug!
    And now they are actually using a D amongst people of all things.

    Understand!
    Baie dankie meneer
    Rich

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    Just saw the other thread, that confirms the use of D shackles. Consider me disappointed.

  19. #19
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    I think they should have had a photo of MUDZ leg up there to motivate them to DO IT PROPERLY even if only for spectator value, spectators are dumb and will copy what they see in real situations and most likely land up worse of than MUDZ did!!!
    I would imagine voetspoere and LA Sport should know better than that

  20. #20
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    I do agree with Henris - if experienced people are showing inexperienced people how to do something, show them the super safe, time consuming tedious way - then let them make their own decisions on how to 'cheat' the process.

    then when they lose their head they can't turn around and say - ooo - but thats how they showed me to do it!!!

    erm wait. that was like when my mother said "if you cut off your legs doing that don't come running to me!!!"

    but you get the idea - you can do it the easy way - only once you know and understand the hard way and have learnt the consequences of the easy way!!

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