Anti Pouching help from 4x4 “Harde Baarde"





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  1. #1
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    Default Anti Pouching help from 4x4 “Harde Baarde"

    I have a suggestion to make to all the 4x4 “Harde Baarde” and “Bosslapers”.
    I need help to control and minimise the poaching in my hunting area in Tete Province of Mozambique. The area is very big 22000 hectares + and real untamed Africa with no infrastructure Tsetse and Malaria.
    I collected more than 130 wire snares in one day with my 11 year old son. I have seen tracks of Elephant dragging their feet and have come upon snared leopards. The poachers in the area are substance poachers and are not armed and dangerous like in Zimbabwe. As a matter of fact these guys would stop poaching if an alternative is available. Hey think what you would do before you die of hunger! The government have appointed “Fiscale” to eradicate the problem but these guy’s is community volunteers and is not paid. But at least they have been issued with a uniform. They know where to look and who is poaching but do not have the means, mainly transport to do anything about the problem. I have the blessing of the “Director Tourisimo” the district “ Adminstrdor” and the local “Chef Do Posto” to bring in people & vehicles to help remove the snares. Would anybody be interested to help!
    I have a base camp with flushing toilets and hot showers, to operate from. Please bring your own food and supply’s. I will supply drinking water, guides and every alternative day an rat run for diesel etc. At this stage the the timing is early July.
    I don’t know if this is the right place to posts – please correct me if not! Maybe this should have been in the environment section?

  2. #2
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    Hi,

    What is it exactly that you want help with?

    As a matter of fact these guys would stop poaching if an alternative is available. Hey think what you would do before you die of hunger!


    what happens to the meat from the hunting?
    Last edited by DouglasN; 2010/04/07 at 06:18 PM.


  3. #3
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    I need 4x4 and people in the area for a few day's to assit the game wardens to acess remote areas to remove wire snares from the bush.
    The meat from hunting is consumed by the locals but this is seasonal ( 2-3 months) and very little trophy hunting is done at the moment.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buchholz View Post
    I need 4x4 and people in the area for a few day's to assit the game wardens to acess remote areas to remove wire snares from the bush.
    Who does the land belong to?

    Lets see if I have this right, you are a PH with a concession in Mozambique, some 1600km from Jhb (Jhb to Cahora Bassa) and you want some volunteers to to take a weeks leave minimum (weekend to weekend) at their cost for fuel, accomnodation on the route there and back, and all supplies to help you clear out the snares?

    I'm not sure you will get many volunteers and it's not a project I would easily recommend for the 4x4Community forum's conservation initiatives.
    Last edited by DouglasN; 2010/04/07 at 06:19 PM.


  5. #5
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    I hear what you say, but surely there are members who have the adventurous spirit to do something like that. I mean, we do some weird things with the vehicles because we can, and for no other reason. And many members may not need more than an invitation to help out, even when it sounds from the last reply that it may be regarded as a effort. COME ON. LET'S BE POSITIVE !!
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  6. #6
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    Wish you could leave it for December. Most of us would be able to do it during December.

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  7. #7
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    I will be keen on something like this, leave and time permitting off course
    Christo Davids
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  8. #8
    RogerT Guest

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    I would love to help.......no time though!!!!!

    You will find guys who will do it just keep looking.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suzie Q View Post
    I hear what you say, but surely there are members who have the adventurous spirit to do something like that. I mean, we do some weird things with the vehicles because we can, and for no other reason. And many members may not need more than an invitation to help out, even when it sounds from the last reply that it may be regarded as a effort. COME ON. LET'S BE POSITIVE !!
    Anybody who wants to go can, nobody is stopping them. For single guys/girls this might well present an opportunity for a fantastic trip & experience, and I know Christo will have an absolute ball there and really hope that if this comes together for Buchholz that Christo does in fact go on the trip.

    As me regarding this as effort, you seriously misunderstand my comments and motives, if some guys are moaning about R2950 for a guided trail in a big 5 game reserve with their family & friends, I'd like to see how many volunteers you'll get with the costs for this trip running to approx R5000 in fuel, a weeks leave and 9 days away from the family and then food and beverages on top of that.

    Out of 80 people who have taken the time and sent an email saying they want to get involved in the conservation work parties, just 14 have actually been out in the field, and that is only a 2hr drive from Jhb, not a 2 day trip, it's reality, not effort.

    As to being positive, we are, we are continually striving to bring more 4x4 people into conservation and open more conservation groups eyes to the fact that not all 4x4 people are bad, and we are succeeding, slowly.

    I just feel our priorities from a forum perspective, lay with the projects we have already started and are busy with, and why would we save the antelope from snares now so somebody else can shoot them come hunting season ?


  10. #10
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    You can email me direct for more info. I have had some pm from interested parties thanks for the support. my email [email protected]
    Doug.
    "snares now so somebody else can shoot them come hunting season"
    This is state land leased to hunt 11 animal's per year(Lion,Elephant,buff etc). 10-15 4x4's would remove at least 1500 snares all that will kill most of the time more than once a season. Your arguments don't hold water.

  11. #11
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    I am keen. You can PM with more details. I agree that snares will probably kill more animals than the hunting permits, also a slow and painful death. Will also contact a few non-forum chaps I know who may be interested.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by DougN View Post
    and it's not a project I would easily recommend for the 4x4Community forum's conservation initiatives.
    May i ask why not? Is there something we don't know about?
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    Unless it is a screw driver.

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  13. #13
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    and why would we save the antelope from snares now so somebody else can shoot them come hunting season ?


    Doug I believe if you think about this for two seconds you might agree that's a short sighted statement. Poaching annihilated a lot of species in Africa and the world. Much as the anti-hunting fraternity want to argue the opposite, hunting has saved and increased the numbers of many endangered species due to sustainable utilization. Leave it and a few years down the line nothing's left.

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  14. #14
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    I think it is a great idae, i would love to attend, will email bucholz for more info.

    Doug, i dont agree with your statement on the hunting, as far as i can see they only take off 11 animals per year, weigh that up against 1500 killed by snares and im sure youll agree that your argument doesnt really hold water.

    As far as im concerned its a great initiative, would not mind seeing more of these positive ideas on the forum.

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  15. #15
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    Been in contact with Francois Rossouw from RSG 4x4 - he supports the idea and will send out info to some parties he think might be interested. I have send out 43 emails with more info to members from this forum. I think the project is a go!
    Any more interested "harde baarde" email me at [email protected].
    The dates have now been set to 30/06/10 to 10/07/10. You dont have to spend all the time there, you may come and go as you like!
    I would like to limit the number of people to 30 and the 4x4's to 12 , that is the max my facilities can handle! Thanks everybody for your remarkable insight and support!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uys View Post
    Originally Posted by DougN
    and it's not a project I would easily recommend for the 4x4Community forum's conservation initiatives.[
    May i ask why not? Is there something we don't know about?

    The simple gist of our project requirements is that the projects should have some sort of link to a recognisable conservation entity, should be sustainable and have a measureable result. Projects should also be family orientated and be accessible to the majority of our members and copiable in all regions.
    Last edited by DouglasN; 2010/04/11 at 10:22 PM.


  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buchholz View Post
    B[snip] I think the project is a go! [snip]
    Chris, well done, I wish you all the best in your project.
    Last edited by DouglasN; 2010/04/11 at 10:21 PM.


  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by granlor View Post


    Doug I believe if you think about this for two seconds you might agree that's a short sighted statement. Poaching annihilated a lot of species in Africa and the world. Much as the anti-hunting fraternity want to argue the opposite, hunting has saved and increased the numbers of many endangered species due to sustainable utilization. Leave it and a few years down the line nothing's left.
    I agree with your and other statements about poaching and the hunting, there is about 4 times as much private land under "game" than we have national or provincial parks & reserves.

    And for the record, contrary to popular belief I am not against hunting, I just don't hunt anymore. Hunting is an integral part of sustainable wildlife managent practices.

    Just a my personal view, agree,disagree, doesn't really matter, The problem here as with many of the similar conservation topics is that only a very small part of a very large problem is being addressed.

    Rhino horn aside, in general, not this specific case, what is being done to address the root cause of general game poaching, very little if anything. Chris, please understand this is very much a generalisation and not a view on you and your business, for a few months, the local population might (not all hunting operations spread the value) get some meat as a result of the hunting, but what about the rest of the year? Mozambican hunting prices are reasonbly low compared to the rest of Africa but $10000 to $20000 per hunter for a short safari is not an unusual price, Government gets some, outfitter & PH get just about everything else, what goes to the locals?

    I don't agree with their poaching methods, it is indiscriminate and the poachers tend to stop checking the snares after they have got their fill of meat leaving many animals to die, it happens in just about every game rich area we have, you should see the snares taken out of Borakalalo in the NW province and Milliwane in Swaziland.

    How do we come to a consensus and mutally beneficial agreemnt between the huntiing industry, conservation & government bodies and the local populations?
    Last edited by DouglasN; 2010/04/11 at 10:23 PM.


  19. #19
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    Doug
    A good suggestion have come trough this thread (by email) to supply the "poachers" with an alternative. I am working on the detail and the following is open to discussion.
    The basic idea is that every 4x4 owner (Harde Baard participant) sponsors a poacher with start up farming stock - a few hens and 2-3 goat ewe's and some veggie seeds - even bee hives have been suggested. This cost of this would be negligible - round R700 per poacher. I know they will be drawn in and will even point out the snares. This will push up the success rate of such an effort beyond expectation. I do think this can work. I am still working on the logistic's and how to make it sustainable.
    Chris

  20. #20
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    My problem is this why would I sponser someboddy who is steeling in the first place. I will help with the rangers keeping them out.

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