2002 TD5 Clutch problem. Advice needed.

[Sabie]

Approximately 5000km ago I had the following work done on the above vehicle.

1. Complete clutch rebuild.
2. Complete overhaul of gearbox and transfer box.
3. Complete overhaul of rear diff.

Initially everything was perfect. However, +/- 1500km later the clutch started making a terrible noise every time it was pushed in to change gears. I contacted the guy in Centurion who did the work and was advised to bring the vehicle in to check out the problem. I was informed that the noise was caused by a "dry spigot shaft bush". Apparently the lubricant applied, Coppaslip, loses its viscosity due to the high operating temperature of the bush. The Coppaslip was to be replaced with "marine grease". Again for the first +/- 1000km everything seemed fine and then the same problem recurred. Upon contacting the guy again he told me that there is absolutely nothing more that he can do to resolve the problem and I will just have to live with it. According to him in some cases the noise carries on forever and sometimes it eventually goes away.

Has anyone experienced a similar problem?

After spending R66000 on the above work I am very disappointed with the result.

I fail to understand that for 160000km the lubricant on the spigot shaft bush was never an issue. Only after the recent clutch rebuild was done the problem started (lubricant failure?). What kept this bush lubricated for the past 160000km?

Any suggestions, advice regarding the above would be appreciated as I now find myself in a dead end street with a so called Land Rover specialist whose name often features in this forum and others.

[Landyluvver]

i would give him one more chance to rectify the situation.
failing his willingness, i would suggest to him that you are going to take the vehicle to the agents to rectify and then present him the bill.
you also have the option of contacting the consumer protection council and report this case to the ombudsman.
one would not want to get nasty but to rectify something seemingly as simple as that would be worth the gamble of preventing having your name dragged through the mud. there are many ears on the forum and members quickly identify and seperate the good from the bad.
word spreads quickly and a business can close down overnight if it is deemed to be incompetent or a fly by night.

i have checked the rave manual and no mention is made of any lubricant to be applied to the spigot shaft. during my training as motor mechanic, i also never came across any instruction to apply lubricant. certainly if any lubricant is to be applied, i would recommend a dry type like graphite powder. this is not affected by heat, won't dry out like grease and will supply the additional reduction in friction as required.
my gut feel tells me that an aftermerker clutch plate was fitted which may not meet the high standard set by the Land Rover components.
I certainly know of very few Td5 clutches that have packed up with less than 250 000km on the clutch unless it was severely abused.
Problematic is the flywheel on the Td5. the "shock absorber" does sometimes fail prior to that milage. the flywheel is fitted with a spring mechanism which sometimes fail.

good luck

[Boyscout]

A friend of mine is having his D2 td5's clutch replaced. I will check with him about this lube issue. I'm not too sure but I don't think that bush/shaft must be lubed. Grease will attract the dust from the clutch as it wears and start jamming. Who is the shop? Centurion gearbox&diff ? Souns more like a crap releas bearing to me. Besides, why is there high heat? I smell the rat!

[RudolfD2]

Sounds more like miss alignment to me.

I paid R15000.00 for clutch, fly wheel and labour, they were OEM parts.
Not done at the stealers but at LandyTech in Boksburg.

Get a second opinion from them before tackling your repair shop.

There's only two Land Rover places in Centurion.
Land Rover and Waynes 4x4.

It's very posible for the spigot and Dual mass fly wheel to be worn at 160000Km's.
I replaced mine at 185000Km's and it was also the second clutch.

Then again. Heat in the fly wheel is possible if you ride the clutch and use it a lot.
Especially if the TD5 has some power issues. Torque at low revs will be very low and just pulling away will show some pedal dancing not to stall it.

Some things wrong here and it's not a grease issue!!!

[Sabie]

Thank you very much for your replies. Much appreciated!

The sad thing is that there was nothing wrong with the clutch at all. I just had the work done while the main gearbox and the transfer box were being overhauled as a precautionary measure.

I had a look at the invoice. I was charged for the following items:

1 x rear crank seal TD5
1 x fly-wheel TD5
1 x bush spigot shaft
1 x clutch kit TD5
1 x clips clutch
1 x clip clutch
2 x gasket exhaust D/pipe TD5
2 x o-ring oil cooler hoses
6 x locking flange nut M10

From the above I make the assumption that basically everything should be brand new. Total parts cost came to +/- R10,200.00 (excl labour).

The problem is definitely temperature related. I have noticed that it is the worst just after start up and pulling away with the vehicle when cold. It tends to get slightly better as the engine and bell housing assembly heats up - but then again sometimes it does not get any better at all regardless the temperature.

I am reluctant to take the vehicle back for a second time to the same person as I have lost faith in his abilities and business ethics.

I feel that by having taken it back the first time I have given him ample opportunity to rectify the problem.

Regards

[Savannah]

Hi Sabie.
From your description of the noise it is a dry pilot shaft bush. The mechanic that fitted the bush was suppose to oil press it before fitting. No amounts of grease or copperslip will help if the wrong procedure where followed. The bush is placed on your hand,filled to the brim with engine oil and then pressed with the other hand on top untill you can see the oil coming out the outer wall of the bush.If this is not done,the bush will dry out within a thousand kilometers. Take it back and stand next to the machanic when he oilpresses the bush. Dont be shy. This is your money they wasted.
Regards.
Marius.
021-556-3373

[JACQ.]

Hi Sabie

You got taken. Was this a workshop that understands Land Rovers? Savannha (Marius) is absolutely correct, and it should have been a simple issue when they had the lot out anyway. In fact, it is a very cheap fix if the clutch/g-box is out anyway.

I experienced the same problem and it turned out to be a well-known Landy issue. If that workshop knew what they were doing (like Marius and Louis, who looks after my vehicle at Safari Off-road Centre ) this problem would not have arisen. It should have been a cheap preventative maintenance item anyway, never mind that they clearly did not fit the thing correctly.

They must sort it out. Good luck.
Jacques.

[Sabie]

Will have it sorted out as soon as time permits. Any recommendations on reliable "stealers" and or other workshops in the Gauteng area? Except the one that caused the problem in the first place off course!

A rough estimate on what it would cost to fix the problem now that the gearbox will have to be removed AGAIN?

Regards.

[Landyluvver]

if you travel north - british (pretoria)
if you travel south LMC (benoni), Landytech(boksburg)
failing that Land Rover Centurion?