Distance to a star

[C Africa]

This part of the forum seems to be quiet, so lets see if I can get a bit of activity going.

We are always blithly talking about how many lightyears the distance is to objects in the universe. The other day I made an idle calculation. I worked out the distance to our nearest neighbour (which is just more than 4 light years away (I'm talking about a star, not planet)). Then I worked out how long it would take you to travel there. For this exercise I assumed more advanced technology than we have and assumed as a nice round figure that we'll be able to propel our space ship at 1 million kilometers per hour!

The astonishing result is that it will take you more than 4000 years to get there!!!! In other words, if the ship left on the day that Jesus was born, then by now it would not yet be halfway to the nearest star!!

How about that?

C

[RedLineR]

Just to pull you leg a bit and be my nagging self around technicalities and accuracy...
Our nearest star is 8 light minutes away

But yes, absolutely, the distances are vast and our minds are not equipped to even visualize such figures.

Let me give an example... Marbles, normal marbles that we played with as kids...
How big is a heap of 10 marbles? Will it fit in your hand? That we can visualize and understand.
How about 1 billion marbles. Without equating it to a number of hands holding 10 marbles, how much is 1 billion marbles?
Will it fill a large 10000l water tank?
Will it fill a stadium?
Will it cover jo'burg cbd?

I havn't done the calculation ever, because I still use the example often. My mind just can't visualize 1 billion marbles, though I know how much 1 billion (the number) is, and I can do maths using such figures. It doesn't mean my mind understands the number.

[SimonB]

how much is 1 billion marbles?
Will it fill a large 10000l water tank?
Will it fill a stadium?
Will it cover jo'burg cbd?

I havn't done the calculation ever, because I still use the example often. My mind just can't visualize 1 billion marbles, though I know how much 1 billion (the number) is, and I can do maths using such figures. It doesn't mean my mind understands the number.

I find doing the math makes it easy to visualise.

Assuming a marble of 15mm and the marbles are packed square , and 1 layer deep, 1 billion (that's 10^12, not 10^9) would pack an area of 225 square kilometers.

Imagine how many synaptic connections there are in our brain... THAT's impossible to imagine (or at least in some of our brains )

[gazza1210]

Even if we hitched a ride on a comet it would take more than 5 times that time period (Haley's comet reaches it max speed at around 54.5 km/sec or about 196 200km/h.)

[Henris]

You want to suck my what?

[4ePikanini]

An interesting fact is that here are more atoms in a glass of water than there are glasses of water in all the oceans on earth.

I did the math at school. It's true!

Secondly look at this pic for perspective of size
NOTE : 4MB image

[gazza1210]

It would actually take more than 4000 years...

When we got to the spot the star would have moved (due to galactic rotation), we don't currently have tracks4galaxies and lastly there would be no-one to ask directions - not that we would because we are self-sufficient men who don't need help.

[BrandonW]

Hi,

Are you guys avid astronomers? Do you know of any avid astronomers on this site?

[gazza1210]

No, but we are a small bunch of talented BS artists!

[RedLineR]

I find doing the math makes it easy to visualise.
Assuming a marble of 15mm and the marbles are packed square , and 1 layer deep, 1 billion (that's 10^12, not 10^9) would pack an area of 225 square kilometers.
Imagine how many synaptic connections there are in our brain... THAT's impossible to imagine (or at least in some of our brains )

1 billion is 10^9 or one thousand million or 1 000 000 000. But that doesn't matter.
As I said, yes we can easily do the math to calculate (volume, mass, mono-layer area etc), but you can't naturally visualize as you can with 10 or even 1000.
Pack the 225 sq km of marbles into a stadium or stadiums? Using your mind's visualization only. Take a guess at how many stadiums would be filled or even if just one stadium or less than one stadium is filled. Which is it?

To do the math makes it easy, to do the raw visualization is what our minds are not equipped to do.

[SimonB]

1 billion is e10^9 or one thousand million or 1 000 000 000. But that doesn't matter.

Depends on whether you are using the long or short scale... 10^9 is a milliard in the long scale. I used the long scale to make the math easy SQRT of 10^9 is slightly more difficult in my head

[MikeAG]

Assuming a marble of 15mm and the marbles are packed square , and 1 layer deep, 1 billion (that's 10^12, not 10^9) would pack an area of 225 square kilometers.)

We haven't used 10 to the power 12 for a billion for over 30 years. The Americans won that argument! A billion is one thousand million.

-

I assumed a smaller marble (10mm diameter), and an angle of rest of 35 degrees (which is extremely optimistic), and reckon that 1 billion marbles in circular pile would have a base about 840 metres across and be about 295 metres high in the middle. Avalanche warning!

Mike

[RedLineR]

Depends on whether you are using the long or short scale... 10^9 is a milliard in the long scale.

Very true!
But being and english post I figured I'd stick with short scale as per UK,US, Australia, and English SA

And yes, I did learn something Thanks!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_scale

[C Africa]

Just to pull you leg a bit and be my nagging self around technicalities and accuracy...
Our nearest star is 8 light minutes away

I said our nearest neighbour, not nearest star.

By the way, at 1million k's per hour it would take you almost a week to get to our own star as well.

Sorry, but I agree that 1 Billion is 10^12 (we are an English country, not an American country, in US that would be a trillion, but billion for us is 1 mil X 1 mil).

C

[4ePikanini]

I think they mentioned the other day that across the world the amount of baggage lost every year can fill a rugby stadium to the roof.

[RedLineR]

I said our nearest neighbour, not nearest star.
By the way, at 1million k's per hour it would take you almost a week to get to our own star as well.
Sorry, but I agree that 1 Billion is 10^12 (we are an English country, not an American country, in US that would be a trillion, but billion for us is 1 mil X 1 mil).
C

You caught me on the "neigbour" thing!
Yes, the distances are truely frightening!

PS: Check the wiki-link.
Afrikaans SA use the long scale, English SA use the short scale

[MikeAG]

Sorry, but I agree that 1 Billion is 10^12 (we are an English country, not an American country, in US that would be a trillion, but billion for us is 1 mil X 1 mil).C

Sorry, but England is an English country, and here a billion is a thousand million, and has been for decades.

Mike

[C Africa]

Ok seems I am outdated in my perception of what is a billion. (In Afrikaans maak ons dit nog meer gekompliseerd deur behalwe vir Biljoen en Triljoen, nog 'n Miljard ook te he).

The comment about the speed of Haleys comet, raises an interesting question. If a body (the comet) moving away from the sun at 200 000k's per hour is unable to break out of the gravitational force of the sun, how does NASA hope that the explorer probes at a quarter of that speed will manage it?

C

[gazza1210]

They are going to use the "slingshot" manouver (sp) like they did in "Armageddon" except they are going to use pluto. It is now small enough to do as it has been down graded from planet status

[4ePikanini]

Sorry, but England is an English country, and here a billion is a thousand million, and has been for decades.
Mike

says the man living in a country that refuses to use the international iso standard ( miles, pounds, stone etc. )