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  1. #1
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    Default Revealed - Most reliable and least reliable 4x4's

    Article is obviously biased in a nanny state where 4x4's don't get used for their purpose but interesting nonetheless.

    What I find interesting is the Pajero (a.k.a Shogun), end especially the Freelander.

    4e - did you make the right decision on the T'reg?

    January 6, 2010

    All-wheel drive vehicles are in the limelight as the Dakar rally renowned as the world's toughest motorsport challenge ruthlessly exposes the slightest weaknesses of man and machine. But just how reliable are the standard 4x4's and SUV's we buy?

    British extended warranty provider Warranty Direct went through its records of 50 000 used all-wheel drive vehicles from three to eight years old to find the answers.

    Audi's A6 Allroad fared worst, with more than half recording a fault in a typical year and a third of those problems reported were suspension-related.

    At the other end of the scale, the Honda CR-V showed up as least likely to let you down, followed by the Suzuki Grand Vitara and Toyota RAV4
    The VW Touareg came in fourth-last
    .

    Mitsubishi and Kia made it a clean sweep for Oriental manufacturers in the top five.

    The VW Touareg, despite winning the 2009 Dakar with South African Giniel de Villiers at the wheel, came in fourth-last with a quarter of its faults down to electrical gremlins.

    The study used a reliability index that takes into account how often vehicles break down, average repair cost and time spent in the workshop to calculate its overall reliability. The lower the number, the more reliable the car.

    The highest-placed European car was the latest version of Land Rover's Freelander, which has historically fared badly in reliability studies
    'The biggest surprise was the poor performance of the XC90' - McClure Fisher
    .

    Warranty Direct's Duncan McClure Fisher said: "It's promising to see improvement from Land Rover but it's telling that the bottom 10 is dominated by European cars and the top of the list populated largely by Japanese vehicles.

    "The biggest surprise was the poor performance of the XC90. It's not what you'd expect from a manufacturer with Volvo's reputation but I'm signing cheques every day for XC90 repairs."

    With an average repair cost of 595.58 (about R7000) the Mitsubishi Shogun was the most expensive to fix but had a low incidence rate, with less than eight percent a year breaking down.

    A third of Nissan X-Trail problems were caused by cooling and heating issues while almost 60 percent of workshop visits for Volvo XC-70 owners were due to suspension breakages.




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  2. #2
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    Simon, I presume the numbers in brackets after the model are the years as they say that it is three to eight year old vehicles? If that is the case, then this study is even more interesting, as it vindicates what myself and several others have been hammering ad nauseum, ie that the Freelander's problems were sorted out post-2003, and that it is the earlier models that were a stuff up.

    Very interesting reading. Thanks for posting it. I wonder if the full list is available online?
    Tony Weaver
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    1983 Toyota HiLux 2l 4x4

  3. #3
    4ePajero Guest

    Default

    Without having statistics available,but having been a member of this forum for a long time, I don't see those sentiments echoed here.

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    Default

    This interests me because there was a link posted somewhere about problems per 100 vehicles and mitsubishi fared pretty poorly with something like 145 problems per 100 vehicles...
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  5. #5
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    so the Freelander is better than the Cruiser hey...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ralton View Post
    so the Freelander is better than the Cruiser hey...
    He he, on paper yes, but one day when you are out there and the car breaks and all the Cruisers go driving past, get out, and shout at the vehicle, "You are supposed to be better than the cruiser"... and get back in and try and go... see if that works....

    These surveys are probably best printed out on toilet paper....
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  7. #7
    4ePajero Guest

    Default

    People with technical savvy accept that (regardless of brand) a car is a machine

    • designed by a man
    • built by a man
    • or it was built by a robot, which was designed, built and serviced by a man
    • serviced by a man
    • driven by a man

    There are good examples and bad examples of any brand (even ........).
    The ratio of good to bad is what separates good from bad, but absolute quality is hard to define, because

    how do you define "good" and how do you define "bad" ?
    how do you define "reliability"?


    These polls don't necessarily define good/bad/reliability, but gripes.



    I belong to quite a few forums and have noted that many gripes (not all) about vehicles are of the type:

    • "no cup holders in the rear"
    • "the brakes squeal"
    • "I don't like the red illumination of the switches"
    • "the battery packed up after two years"
    • "the radio reception is not good when I drive through tunnels"
    • "the satnav was wrong and caused me to miss an important meeting"
    • etc

    Read forums like this one and you will soon know which vehicles have which glitches.

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    Default

    Ok I was wrong (surprise surprise) but I did find the link it was about the problems per 100 vehicles (PP100) quality survey done by Synovate in their 2009 Product Quality Awards and I shall post some interesting graphs here they may interest someone.

    (all graphs were sourced from Synovate 2009 Product Quality Awards)


    Source: Synovate 2009 Product Quality Awards N = 1299 (CIF applied)


    N = 2276







    So it turns out that the mitsubishi products didnt score as badly as I read a couple of years ago - and makes for interesting comparison with SimonB's table
    2001 Mitsubishi Colt 2.4i Trailbuster
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4ePajero View Post

    These polls don't necessarily define good/bad/reliability, but gripes.
    4e, I agree with everything you mentioned, but have to point out that the stats this thread was based on, is of claims recorded by a company providing extended warranties. It is therefor not a poll but actual statistics.

    What I notice, however, is that the cost of the repair seems to play a roll in the outcome, although IMHO it has nothing to do with RELIABILITY. Repairs to vehicles like the Treg's technically advanced suspension is naturally going to be more expensive than the donkey cart suspension of my Jeep or that of a Japanese bakkie. A failed suspension is a failed suspension, irrespective of what the repair cost is going to be.

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    Two things on this survey jump out at me:
    1. has the population of vehicles in the stat been normalised against the number of vehicles in the market? I.e. if there are more Tregs in the market vs Freelanders, then any Treg problems will appear to be higher (statistically) than the incidence of Freelander problems. In that vein, OwenB's PP100 scale is much more statistically relevant;
    2. then, the reliability index isn't equal across model years... look at the Top 10. Some of those models have a 5-year range, some a 10-year range. The longer age-range of a certain model/series will naturally include initial production shortcomings in the earlier models and so possibly bias overall reliability stats.
    In my book, the most reliable car is the one you're driving. You know what it can do and what is can't. Everything else is an unknown quantity - for all the great reasons 4e so eloquently mentioned.
    DV8 - I'D RATHER BE OFFROAD

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  11. #11
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    [QUOTE=4ePajero;407893]People with technical savvy accept that (regardless of brand) a car is a machine

    • designed by a man
    • built by a man
    • or it was built by a robot, which was designed, built and serviced by a man
    • serviced by a man
    • driven by a man

    And some are DRIVEN by WOMEN... not sure if that raises or lowers the reliability...
    Gary
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by OwenD View Post
    This interests me because there was a link posted somewhere about problems per 100 vehicles and mitsubishi fared pretty poorly with something like 145 problems per 100 vehicles...
    Holy CRAP!

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  13. #13
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    Default IOL motoring article on most reliable 4x4

    Tom
    2002 BMW R1150GS

  14. #14
    4ePajero Guest

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    Yeah right!

    Once again the journo illustrates his superior knowledge:

    The VW Touareg, despite winning the 2009 Dakar with South African Giniel de Villiers at the wheel, came in fourth-last with a quarter of its faults down to electrical gremlins.

    1. The Dakar was won by a Race Touareg 2, which is a totally different vehicle to the Touareg.
    2. The closest similarity between the two are the VW badges.
    3. I don't think a Touareg has ever been entered for the Dakar.

  15. #15
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    This looks like it is mainly based on the newer cars?
    Your car is like your wife/girlfriend. In the beginning of your relationship you will find some hic-ups, no doupt. Only with time you will get to know and understand your wife/girlfriend/vehicle. If you look after your wife/girlfriend/vehicle and don't abuse it, you will get a better ride.
    Think of it, at the end they are all the same.

    I actually don't care about the brand as long as I still enjoy my old banger. (and respect it for what its worth)
    "If you can park your car and NOT turn around to look at it as you walk away, you haven't bought the right car"

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  16. #16
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    The bottom line, IMHO, is that if you use the vehicle for what it was originally designed to do, in the conditions that it was designed to operate in (ie: soft roader, hard core off-roader etc.) AND you look after it (ie: do not attempt terrain / conditions that it wasn't designed to do) AND you service / maintain the vehicle in strict accordance with the manufacturers specifications, then the vehilce will have a good reliability. Dont try and do the Dakar in a stock X5, It WILL break down... common sense...

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by dv8 View Post
    two things on this survey jump out at me:
    1. has the population of vehicles in the stat been normalised against the number of vehicles in the market? I.e. If there are more tregs in the market vs freelanders, then any treg problems will appear to be higher (statistically) than the incidence of freelander problems. In that vein, owenb's pp100 scale is much more statistically relevant;
    2. then, the reliability index isn't equal across model years... Look at the top 10. Some of those models have a 5-year range, some a 10-year range. The longer age-range of a certain model/series will naturally include initial production shortcomings in the earlier models and so possibly bias overall reliability stats.
    in my book, the most reliable car is the one you're driving. You know what it can do and what is can't. Everything else is an unknown quantity - for all the great reasons 4e so eloquently mentioned.


    agree 100%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!

    2004 2.8TDI Mitsubishi Colt 4x4 Double Cab

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  18. #18
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    Default

    Proof that Land Rovers are more reliable than Land Cruisers...
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    Exclamation

    Note: Similar threads merged
    * "Wat Spike probeer s in sy min woorde" -Die Skim "
    .................................................. .....

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4ePajero View Post
    Without having statistics available,but having been a member of this forum for a long time, I don't see those sentiments echoed here.
    Which sentiments? Mine or SimonB's?
    Tony Weaver
    2010 Mitsubishi Pajero Sport 3.2l diesel
    Previously
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    1983 Toyota HiLux 2l 4x4

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