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  1. #41
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    Now my question comes in.

    What about a horse like a Volvo 610, that weighs about 12tonne, pulls a trailer, with a load, that weighs 150tonnes. How does this work now?
    Henris, it is more involved when you look at the big rigs, for eg:
    All big rigs are 3500kg + so the service brakes are a must on each unit being drawen.
    PD, is the rated HP/Kw of the engine which is involved in a traction calculation.
    DT, is the maximun mass the truck tractor may pull behind it, so the manufacturer rates this and is also part of the traction calculation. Then there is the 11% weight tranferr from the 5th wheel steering wheels, all this is on the AV regitration for abnormal vehicles.
    The braking part, the truck tractor is not there to stop the all the weight, as each trailer behind it must comply to the braking specs on its own, and does its own braking which the TT controls from the driver in put. Its when the trailer brakes are not adjusted regularly then they burn out the trucks brakes and have run a ways.
    2007 TDV6 S
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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    here you go:

    National Road Traffic Act, 1996
    National Road Traffic Regulations, 1999
    Chapter X : Rules of the road and matters relating thereto
    Part III : General
    330. Towing of vehicles




    1) No person shall operate a vehicle on a public road towing another vehicle

    a) if the length of the tow-rope, chain or tow-bar between the two vehicles exceeds three and a half metres;

    b) if the towed vehicle is connected to the towing vehicle in such a manner that both vehicles are not under control;

    c) unless the steering gear of the vehicle being towed is controlled by a person holding a code of driving licence authorising him or her to drive the class of such vehicle, if the towed vehicle is fitted with steering gear contemplated in regulation 200(1): Provided that the provisions of this paragraph shall not apply in the case where

    i) the steerable wheels of the towed vehicle are being carried clear of the ground; or

    ii) the device connecting the towing vehicle to the towed vehicle is such that the steerable wheels of the towed vehicle are controlled by such device;

    d) if the brakes of the towed vehicle do not comply with the provisions of regulation 155, unless the towing vehicle is connected to the towed vehicle by means of a drawbar or tow-bar;

    e) at a speed in excess of 30 kilometres per hour, unless the towing vehicle is connected to the towed vehicle by means of a drawbar or a tow-bar;

    f) if the towed vehicle is conveying persons at a speed in excess of 30 kilometres per hour, unless the towed vehicle is a semi-trailer; or

    g) if the towing vehicle is a motor cycle, motor tricycle, motor quadrucycle or pedal cycle.



    basically - if you are pulling a vehicle (NOT A TRAILER) all the weight limits don't apply, nor do you have need have brakes on the towed vehicle if it's on a solid bar (a frame)

    which is daft, but true.

    what you may not do is have passengers in the towed vehcile nor may you connect a trailer to the towed vehicle, nor may you A- Frame a vehicle behind a trailer.
    This does not make sense at all unless I got it altogether wrong. I can therefore tow a truck of which the brakes does not work woth my Citi Golf as long as a solid bar is used, the person steering the truck is duly licenced and he carries no passengers.

    An accident looking for a place to happen!
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    Youth is such a wonderful thing - what a pity it is being wasted on the young.

  3. #43
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    Originally Posted by Apocalypse
    here you go:

    National Road Traffic Act, 1996
    National Road Traffic Regulations, 1999
    Chapter X : Rules of the road and matters relating thereto
    Part III : General
    330. Towing of vehicles




    1) No person shall operate a vehicle on a public road towing another vehicle –

    a) if the length of the tow-rope, chain or tow-bar between the two vehicles exceeds three and a half metres;

    b) if the towed vehicle is connected to the towing vehicle in such a manner that both vehicles are not under control;

    c) unless the steering gear of the vehicle being towed is controlled by a person holding a code of driving licence authorising him or her to drive the class of such vehicle, if the towed vehicle is fitted with steering gear contemplated in regulation 200(1): Provided that the provisions of this paragraph shall not apply in the case where –

    i) the steerable wheels of the towed vehicle are being carried clear of the ground; or

    ii) the device connecting the towing vehicle to the towed vehicle is such that the steerable wheels of the towed vehicle are controlled by such device;

    d) if the brakes of the towed vehicle do not comply with the provisions of regulation 155, unless the towing vehicle is connected to the towed vehicle by means of a drawbar or tow-bar;

    e) at a speed in excess of 30 kilometres per hour, unless the towing vehicle is connected to the towed vehicle by means of a drawbar or a tow-bar;

    f) if the towed vehicle is conveying persons at a speed in excess of 30 kilometres per hour, unless the towed vehicle is a semi-trailer; or

    g) if the towing vehicle is a motor cycle, motor tricycle, motor quadrucycle or pedal cycle.



    basically - if you are pulling a vehicle (NOT A TRAILER) all the weight limits don't apply, nor do you have need have brakes on the towed vehicle if it's on a solid bar (a frame)

    which is daft, but true.

    what you may not do is have passengers in the towed vehcile nor may you connect a trailer to the towed vehicle, nor may you A- Frame a vehicle behind a trailer.
    This does not make sense at all unless I got it altogether wrong. I can therefore tow a truck of which the brakes does not work woth my Citi Golf as long as a solid bar is used, the person steering the truck is duly licenced and he carries no passengers.

    An accident looking for a place to happen!
    The part you guys are missing is on the towing vehicles data plate, you still have the maximun towing mass, it still has to comply to the road regs, so you are getting some relief on the drawen vehicle on the brake side. I read the regs as for towing a broken down vehicle on the side of the road, one that is road worthy and licenced, not a A-framed pipe car from JHB to CT.
    2007 TDV6 S
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  4. #44
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    Spoke to one of the sales people at a caravan dealership and was told that even with a EB license, the tow vehicle GVM and the caravan/trailer GVM combined may not exceed 3500 kg's. Thats apart from the restriction with regards to GCM masses and braked/un-braked weight restrictions.

    Does that mean I am not allowed to tow an off-road caravan even though I am towing with a Disco?
    .................................................. ......
    Gary W


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    Jurgens XT120..home away from home.

  5. #45
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    Code Vehicle classes Includes
    Motorcycles
    A1 Motorcycles with an engine capacity of 125 cubic centimetres or less
    A Motorcycles with an engine capacity greater than 125 cc Code A1
    Light motor vehicles
    B Vehicles (except motorcycles) with tare weight of 3 500 kilograms or less; and minibuses, buses and goods vehicles with gross vehicle mass (GVM) of 3 500 kg or less. A trailer with GVM of 750 kg or less may be attached.
    EB Articulated vehicles with gross combination mass (GCM) of 3 500 kg or less; and vehicles allowed by Code B but with a trailer with GVM greater than 750 kg. Code B
    Heavy motor vehicles
    C1 Vehicles with tare weight between 3 500 kg and 16 000 kg; minibuses, buses and goods vehicles with GVM between 3 500 kg and 16 000 kg. A trailer with GVM of 750 kg or less may be attached. Code B
    C Buses and goods vehicles with GVM greater than 16 000 kg. A trailer with GVM of 750 kg or less may be attached. Codes B and C1
    EC1 Articulated vehicles with GCM between 3 500 kg and 16 000 kg; and vehicles allowed by Code C1 but with a trailer with GVM greater than 750 kg. Codes B, EB and C1
    EC Articulated vehicles with GCM greater than 16 000 kg; and vehicles allowed by Code C but with a trailer with GVM greater than 750 kg. Codes B, EB, C1, C and EC1

    Tsotsi if the GVM was not allowed to be more than 3500kg then your Disco wouldn't be allowed to tow a pram let alone an off road caravan.
    My Pajero has a GVM of 3080kg
    An EB licence allows one to tow a trailer with a mass greater than 750kg. The limit of the trailer is thus defined by the limit of the tare mass of your vehicle.
    That being said if your off road caravan tips the scale @ the weigh bridge at 1600kg this only allows you 1900kg for the vehicle, including contents. This is due to the fact that both vehicle and trailer may not exceed 3500kg combined.
    So if the tare mass of your vehicle is 2000kg and the family and all the holiday luggage adds another 600kg, mrs venter is all you can tow


    See - http://www.aawdc.offventure.com/now/annexD.pdf
    Last edited by mplester; 2012/12/06 at 10:06 PM. Reason: web site info

  6. #46
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    Spoke to one of the sales people at a caravan dealership and was told that even with a EB license, the tow vehicle GVM and the caravan/trailer GVM combined may not exceed 3500 kg's. Thats apart from the restriction with regards to GCM masses and braked/un-braked weight restrictions.

    Does that mean I am not allowed to tow an off-road caravan even though I am towing with a Disco?
    Tsotsi, an extract from the regs, and you will notice that it refers to the vehicle you drive, and the restrictions imposed on it, not whats behind it.


    EB
    A motor vehicle, excluding a motor cycle, motor tricycle, motor quadrucycle, tractor and a motor vehicle which is a type of mobile agricultural or industrial equipment or machinery not designed principally for the conveyance of persons or goods, being-- (i) an articulated motor vehicle, of which the gross combination mass of the truck-tractor does not exceed 3 500 kilograms;
    (ii) a combination of--
    (aa) a motor vehicle the tare of which does not exceed 3 500 kg; or
    (bb) a mini-bus, bus or goods vehicle, the gross vehicle mass of which does not exceed 3 500 kilograms,
    with a trailer the gross vehicle mass of which exceeds 750 kilograms.


    Firstly a truck tractor is a goods vehicle, which you dont have so ignore it. As for the rest it will apply to the vehicles Tare weight only, not GVM,GCM etc. as there is no mention of these, and lastly you can tow a trailer heaver that 750kg GVM. Trailers are licenced vehicles on their own and have the required regs which they must comply with, as with the towing there off. The towing ability of your vehicle is not reflected in the class of licence you hold, but specified by the vehicle manufacture to conform with homologation regs before they can sell it. Another misconception is the vehicle tare, this does not influnce the size/weight of the trailer you can tow at all, it helps to define what the braking requirments need to be for what you will be towing, period. As an example using a Discovery 3, weights will not be accurate but more or less, but the calculation remains the same,

    GVM 3500kg ( gross vehicle mass, the maximun a fully laden legal mass of the D3 ) GCM 6000kg ( gross combination mass, maximun mass of the vehicle,GVM, and trailer,GVM, combined ) so you subtract the vehicle GVM from the vehicle GCM and you have 2500kg which you can tow behind you, simple, then the braking requirements are checked to see if the trailer complies.
    Last edited by discoeast; 2012/12/07 at 09:48 AM.
    2007 TDV6 S
    ARB BB and winch,BRS HD tow bar,TT and EGR's blanked,RR with dual awnings,Duel batterys,Custom long lange tank,Centre mount fridge,Custom rear box,Custom internal water tank 65Lt,Custom dash consol,Custom swing out spare wheel carrier, Adjustable 50mm suspension lift, SDV6 3Lt conversion.

  7. #47
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    Hi, the following regulation extract is what got me confused as well, and I think possibly the sales guy I spoke to. it refers to a Gross Combination Mass of 3500Kg's, in other words vehicle GVM and Trailer GVM combined.
    which means if the vehicle GVM is 2480Kg's, you have 1020kg's left for the GVM of the trailer.
    http://www.aawdc.offventure.com/now/annexD.pdf
    .................................................. ......
    Gary W


    Discovery 2 (Td5) Best 4x4xfar
    BMW GS 1200 Adventure. For when the road ends...
    Jurgens XT120..home away from home.

  8. #48
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    the law is very clear in terms of what you can tow.

    the B licence allows you to drive a light motor vehicle (i.e. Gross Vehicle Mass less than or equal to 3500kg) PLUS a trailer if up 750kg GVM

    an EB licence allows you to drive the same vehicle plus a trailer of over 750kg. no upper limit. as long as the car is rated to tow it, and the trailer complies - you can legally drive it. If it's rated to tow 10 tons and your trailer complies with the rules - no problem.

    thereafter it is about the vehicle.

    IF you have, for instance, a Jeep Rubicon like mine, the vehicle has a GVM of around 2600kg - which means I may drive it with a B or EB licence.

    It has a gross combined mass of some 6100kg. As I have an EB licence I may drive the vehicle (while it is correctly loaded to not more than it's GVM) while towing a trailer over 750kg up to the GCM of the vehicle (in this case GCM-GVM = a 3500kg trailer)

    it must be noted that there are OTHER rules about the trailer - i.e. as it is over 750kg it must have a brake.

    if it is below the GVM of the towing vehicle it may have an overrun brake only. SO - if my trailer is 2600kg or less with an overrun brake it is legal.

    PLEASE NOTE - the same trailer with the same brakes WOULD NOT be legal behind a lighter car.

    if my trailer is heavier than the car - in this case over 2600kg but less than 3500kg - it must have a SERVICE brake - i.e. the driver must be able to operate it while driving - usually conencted to the brake system of the car.

    and note: A car IS NOT A TRAILER. the TRAILER rules do not apply to flat towing a car....

    ALSO to NOTE - a TRAILER is different to an articulated vehicle.

    your EB licence does not entitle you to drive one of those bakkies with a fifth wheel and trailer if the whole rig is over 3500kg as the articulated part is considered part of the vehicle, even though you can unhitch the trailer. the principal difference is that a large portion of the load of an articulated vehcile is carried on the back axle of the towing vehicle...
    Last edited by Apocalypse; 2012/12/07 at 02:06 PM.

  9. #49
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    EB
    A motor vehicle, excluding a motor cycle, motor tricycle, motor quadrucycle, tractor and a motor vehicle which is a type of mobile agricultural or industrial equipment or machinery not designed principally for the conveyance of persons or goods, being-- (i) an articulated motor vehicle, of which the gross combination mass of the truck-tractor does not exceed 3 500 kilograms;
    (ii) a combination of--
    (aa) a motor vehicle the tare of which does not exceed 3 500 kg; or
    (bb) a mini-bus, bus or goods vehicle, the gross vehicle mass of which does not exceed 3 500 kilograms,
    with a trailer the gross vehicle mass of which exceeds 750 kilograms.
    Tsotsi, I think your confusion is with the class of vehicle discription, if you drive a truck tractor,mini-bus,bus or goods vehicle then they refer to the GVM, then your thinking would be correct, but anything els would be considered a motor vehicle and there they refer to the tare, it is written that way in the regulations, the only exclusion are the highlighted vehicles in the opening paragraph. You will also notice there is no mention of GCM here, this is delt with els where.


    Firstly a truck tractor is a goods vehicle, which you dont have so ignore it. As for the rest it will apply to the vehicles Tare weight only, not GVM,GCM etc. as there is no mention of these
    I need to correct myself here as the GVM is mentioned.
    2007 TDV6 S
    ARB BB and winch,BRS HD tow bar,TT and EGR's blanked,RR with dual awnings,Duel batterys,Custom long lange tank,Centre mount fridge,Custom rear box,Custom internal water tank 65Lt,Custom dash consol,Custom swing out spare wheel carrier, Adjustable 50mm suspension lift, SDV6 3Lt conversion.

  10. #50
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    Hi All,
    Thanks for assisting with clearing this up. At least now I know what I am allowed and not allowed.
    Will be visiting the caravan sales guy soon again!

    Was wondering what a venter would look like with 15" wheels and trailer tent on top>>>
    .................................................. ......
    Gary W


    Discovery 2 (Td5) Best 4x4xfar
    BMW GS 1200 Adventure. For when the road ends...
    Jurgens XT120..home away from home.

  11. #51
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    Hypothetically if one only woke up now, where and how would one go about getting an EB license in Pta on such short notice?

  12. #52
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    NewB, it is the same as for any drivers licence now, but I think you go through a central booking system, so the short notice is out the window.
    2007 TDV6 S
    ARB BB and winch,BRS HD tow bar,TT and EGR's blanked,RR with dual awnings,Duel batterys,Custom long lange tank,Centre mount fridge,Custom rear box,Custom internal water tank 65Lt,Custom dash consol,Custom swing out spare wheel carrier, Adjustable 50mm suspension lift, SDV6 3Lt conversion.

  13. #53
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    OK, we are back from the coast, did not have any problems, went through 3 Roadblocks, not even a remark about the tandem towing. They only checked the Licence Disks, and tyres of all the vehicles! thanks for all the advice!



    VW AMAROK V6
    Land Rover Defender Td5

    Land Rover Discovery 4 V8 HSE (Swambo)

  14. #54
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    hi Johan,
    Welcome back.
    How did the Disco do with this combination (power, fuel consumption, handling)?
    .................................................. ......
    Gary W


    Discovery 2 (Td5) Best 4x4xfar
    BMW GS 1200 Adventure. For when the road ends...
    Jurgens XT120..home away from home.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsotsi View Post
    hi Johan,
    Welcome back.
    How did the Disco do with this combination (power, fuel consumption, handling)?
    The Disco was awesome.

    More than sufficient power slipped it into Manual Select into the 5th gear (Since it's the 1:1 ratio) and there it went without any hesitation, speed cruise on 100 km/h.

    The fuel consumption varied between 4,8 km/l and 6,5 km/l depending on the wind. We had a very strong head wind from Knysna to PE where I got the worst fuel consumption.

    Handling was very good; never drove more than 100km/h, except the odd overtaking where I might have gone to 120 km/h, combination was still very stable.
    VW AMAROK V6
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  16. #56
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    Hi guys, Sorry for resurrecting an old thread here. I have a code B which means I can tow an Echo 3 camping trailer. Will I be allowed to hook a Quad trailer to the Echo 3? Basically towing 2 trailers on a Code B license?

  17. #57
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    The whole unit may not exceed 12 m afaik.

    I don't know if you are allowed to do that,
    I guess, not, but I would never recommend it.

    I think IF any chance you may need an EB licence.

    Look also at that thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetlag View Post
    Hi guys, Sorry for resurrecting an old thread here. I have a code B which means I can tow an Echo 3 camping trailer. Will I be allowed to hook a Quad trailer to the Echo 3? Basically towing 2 trailers on a Code B license?
    you may only tow a total of 750kg of trailer/s with a B licence.

    plus then the car must be rated for whatever you are towing too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paw_by_Paw View Post
    This is exactly the problem I’ve addressed with some of the Trailer manufacturers and
    Never got response from them.

    According to Caravan and outdoor Towcar Guide there is only approximately
    15 vehicles on SA roads which may lawfully tow the following trailers:

    Afrispoor – Mongoose 1500 GVM
    Bantam – Sahara 1650 GVM
    Bushwakka – Safari 1500 GVM
    - Scout 1500 GVM
    Conqueror – Conquest 1525 GVM
    - Compact 1525 GVM
    - Supra 1525 GVM
    Desert Wolf – Leo 1800 GVM
    - Lynx 1500 GVM
    Echo 4 1600 GVM


    Maximum Allowable GVM of Caravan/Trailer for the following Vehicles to tow:

    Chrysler
    Jeep Grand Cherokee 1390 GVM
    PT Cruiser 1390 GVM
    Jeep Cherokee 1650 GVM
    Wrangler 1650 GVM

    Ford
    Ford Ranger 2.5D 1650 GVM but
    The Ranger 2.5D D/C only 1390 GVM (No offroad trailer for him)

    Isuzu
    350 LE & 240 only 1400 GVM

    Land Rover
    The Defender Td5, Discovery 3 TDV6 SE, Freelander Td4 not allowed to tow above offroad trailers
    Range Rover 1500 GVM

    Nissan
    The Navara 2.5 CDik Navara 4l auto 4x2, Pathfinder 2.5 CDi and Patrol are not allowed to tow above trailers.

    Only the Hardbody 3.0 1650 GVM

    Etc, Etc, Etc…

    My Question is thus: Were these trailer suppliers to enthusiastic by rating their trailers this high for sales purposes and never kept vehicle towing legislation in mind?
    I beg to differ: The defenders ( 90 and 110) are rated to tow up to 3500kg, this directly from user manual and Vehicle manufacturers vin plate inside vehicle!

    http://www.landroverweb.com/Pdf-file...20td5%20v8.pdf
    2011 Discovery LR4 HSE
    2008 LR 110 Defender Puma SVX, 60th Anniversary Ltd Edition.
    2006 LR 110 Defender Td5
    2014 Jurgens Safari Xplorer
    Renault Clio VaVaVoom

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    Iirc, my series3 is allowed to tow 2000kg in standard range, and 4000kg in low range? Can't see why the superior Defenders can't?

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