P-Series Kool-Aid...

[Seerower]

Long-time lurker, reeeeeally infrequent poster. I currently own a 3L V6 Colt Clubcab (4x2), the initial purpose of which was to get me to the shooting range and back. However, the Colt has been my daily drive since my Megane blew a top gasket and it worked out far less expensive to fix up the Colt (including paying for petrol!) than the platkar... Alas, middle age has hit, both for the Colt and myself. Engines are still awesome but the bodywork aint what it used to be. And what was state of the art (or at least completely sufficient) in 2006 is starting to look decidedly dated in 2024.

The Colt has always felt more at home on gravel than on tar, and we've had awesome trips together. Ive rarely ever gone anywhere where I would rather have had 4x4, but then again, I didn't because I didn't have it. Once or twice Ive powered up places in 2nd and 3rd gear & diff lock where a 4L wouldn't been far more elegant and required less adrenaline. Once I got stuck in 2" deep soft sand because I'm a dumbass, and had to be recovered by the property owner's Jeep. That was bad for the ego... So I decided that when I eventually do acquire a new bakkie it will have to be 4x4 capable, at least to avoid the Jeeps.

So one keeps an eye on the market, then look at what newer vehicles cost and decide that the one I paid cash for remains by far the best one for my wallet, regardless its affinity for the green go-juice. But there's always that wandering eye... Seeing that 97.52% of my driving is the 10km to my workplace and back, on Western-Cape tarred roads, and that in my dotage my love of stepping on a clutch pedal is diminishing at a similar rate to my free time, I always kinda liked the idea of the 4-motion Amarok Auto. I liked the idea of car-like comfort, and the 8-Speed ZF box tickled my fancy for elegant engineering. However, I recently realized that if I wanted to buy an Amarok I should've done so some years ago, what you get 2nd hand now has got a lot of kilos on and the new one is both out of my price range and a Ford, neither of which tickles any of my fancies.

Having always liked the Mitsu's, the current Triton looked cool(-er than any previous ones) but reading reviews and putting in some serious study at the University of Youtube gave me the impression that it's actually rather dated. The NEW Triton actually does look really nice to me, but it isn't here yet, and given my limited understanding of economics (I'm OK with hammers, screwdrivers and a selection of long sums, but accounting always flummoxed me...) I get the idea it's going to be expensive. Similarly, you pay a lot of money for a relatively dated Hilux, which makes sense for all the good reasons people buy Hiluxes, but you're not going to get the comfort or the refinement when compared to the Amarok, which always served as my baseline.

[Seerower]

As I casually browsed the online sales sites, I couldn't help but notice the P-series, with new or only few kilos on, when similarly priced offerings from the well-known names were often approaching or even exceeding the 100k km mark. Specs look really good, and on paper it ticks all the boxes set by the Amarok baseline, and more. So I made my way back to this site, as I know there's generally a thread that lists all the problems members experienced with their vehicles. I mean, even the Mitsu and Toyota threads have one or two posts in... Great was my surprise to learn the vehicle has been around for 4y already, and that in general there's very little complaints about them (at least on here). I read all the relevant threads here (hat-tip to everyone that post they're experiences, but especially PsyPhin's thread) trying to find dealbreaker issues, but I've come up effectively empty-handed. Back to the University of YT, getting as much local and Ozzie input as is available. I think I've managed to collect the complete list of negatives:

1. It's somewhat underpowered (strangely, because comparisons seems to be made between top-end models, it's never said that similarly priced Toyotas and Fords have got similar power and torque...)
2. The giant chrome grill is obnoxious (I started to pay attention, and have at a distance now often mistaken a Hilux for a P-series judging by projected chrome area alone...)
3. Something about indicators and the radio.
4. GWM couldn't decide on a single logo so kinda took a shotgun approach with what they put where.
5. No roof light at the rear.
6. Initial uncertainty about the towing capacity.
7. Fuel tank, diesel filter and a couple of other things rather exposed under the vehicle

Yesterday I spent some time at the local Haval/GWM dealership. I'm unfortunately cursed with a "oop en eerlike gesiggie" so I cannot really fake casual disinterest and I'm-just-browsing-while-I-wait-for-Burger-King-to-complete-my-special-skaapboud-order. Took an LT for a drive, and I must say, at least around the local roads it was a really pleasant experience. Although it's physically bigger than my Colt, it doesn't FEEL bigger, and definitely has a turning circle more biased towards a modern vehicle than an ossewa. It's a rather nice space to be in; I didn't get the opportunity to experience all the gee-wizardry and bing-bongs, but the little bit that I did see was informative and not overbearing. Compared to my Colt the power delivery is just different, so it doesn't make sense to even try and compare.

Looking at my own use case, the LT seems like the most suitable model for me, as the few mod-con upgrades above the LS is attractive to me. I like the default AWD mode for general driving, and I also like that there are other options available. I don't see myself jumping headlong into really serious offroading, so the LTD would be wasted on me. The biggest think I need to get over is, regardless of the really attractive relative cost, and bang-for-buck compared to the competitors, I've been used to NOT making payments for a car since 2007. I also actually vowed to never buy a brand new car again.

With all the above said, please see this as an intro: I'll make a few subsequent posts here with more to-the point questions and less prose, but I'd really appreciate the insights from those in the know.

Much obliged in advance.

:- P

[WillieJimny]

Mother, thats a lot to read.

[pjf110]

Having owned a 3.0 colt V6 DC 4x4 they are lovely vehicles but very much old school bakkie. The Colt was actually quite comfortable with torsion bars in front.

You seem to be someone who is able to take care of and appreciate a vehicle for a good period. That said reliability and resale value should by high on you list.

Ive driven a amarok and been a passenger a few times, they are great vehicles. I would seriously suggest you look at late model previous shapes with some warranty left. If not then the following would be my recommendation:

1.) Mazda BT50- basically a isuzu but for a better price and better looks
2.) Isuzu Dmax- Proven engine and gearbox (same as hilux and fortuner)
3.) Triton- Dynamic 4x4 system and a good 2nd hand buy due to being less popular

Coming full circle a previous gen Amarok with a 3.0 bi-tdi V6 will be a fantastic upgrade in comfort, power, tech and consumption.

Happy hunting!

[Ooba]

Having owned a 3.0 colt V6 DC 4x4 they are lovely vehicles but very much old school bakkie. The Colt was actually quite comfortable with torsion bars in front.

You seem to be someone who is able to take care of and appreciate a vehicle for a good period. That said reliability and resale value should by high on you list.

Ive driven a amarok and been a passenger a few times, they are great vehicles. I would seriously suggest you look at late model previous shapes with some warranty left. If not then the following would be my recommendation:

1.) Mazda BT50- basically a isuzu but for a better price and better looks
2.) Isuzu Dmax- Proven engine and gearbox (same as hilux and fortuner)
3.) Triton- Dynamic 4x4 system and a good 2nd hand buy due to being less popular

Coming full circle a previous gen Amarok with a 3.0 bi-tdi V6 will be a fantastic upgrade in comfort, power, tech and consumption.

Happy hunting!

Wait, what?

Dmax has the same engine and gearbox as the hilux and Fortuna?

V6 Amarok is not a bi turbo.

[Seerower]

Mother, thats a lot to read.

Yup sorry, I got a bit carried away

@pjf110, thanks for the insight and the objective look at different alternatives. My look-around started with V6 Amaroks, but I was somewhat appalled to discover that low-km late model ones go for more than what many new bakkies cost. In the wayback when I bought the Colt, I specifically only considered the petrol versions, because my research told me the engines were effectively bulletproof, in contrast with the 2.8 diesel that liked blowing tops. Because I had no way of knowing how a previous owner drove a vehicle, the petrol ws the logical solution. I sorely wanted the 4x4DC but for the same moneyas the Clubcab, they were generally 2-4y older and often 100K km more.

To a large degree I realise I'm in a similar position now: I have an emotional limit on the money I'm willing to spend (well-knowing that a car isn't an investment), and at that price the "traditional names" are generally close to end of warranty, or relatively old tech, or both. This is to a large degree what attracts me to the P-series, namely a really modern option at a class-beating price, with a service plan and warranty that will at least last as long as one expects to pay for the car. Perhaps I'm overly sensitive, but I have that ongoing concern about a second-hand diesel engine. The newer it is, the I'll know what's been done to it, because I'm the one doing it...

Which does bring me to one of my questions, which is perhaps more a general "car dealer" type one: how is it possible for one dealership to offer a new vehicle at R150K less than the sticker price? And how do new vehicles end up at used car franchises, also at significantly lower prices? In the latter case, how would one go about verifying that the vehicle will have the same warranty and service plan as a new one from the name-brand dealer?

I probably sound like the guy on a gun forum that says "I've made up my mind to buy a Taurus Millennium, please tell me how great it is...", but also realise that buying a new car is not a topic I'm an expert in... last times I spent more than R500K on anything they came with title deeds!

[Seerower]

Wait, what?

Dmax has the same engine and gearbox as the hilux and Fortuna?

V6 Amarok is not a bi turbo.

I think he meant the Isuzu's engine and gearbox combo is proven, similar to that of the Toyotas.

[PsyPhin]

1. It's somewhat underpowered (strangely, because comparisons seems to be made between top-end models, it's never said that similarly priced Toyotas and Fords have got similar power and torque...)
It isnt a racecar, but I would say its quicker than my manual 2.2 Ranger. The gearbox makes up for it, but if you want to overtake at 120kmh you feel it struggle.
The power isnt a 4L V8, it is a ZF gearbox thing where it needs to be in the correct rev range.
2. The giant chrome grill is obnoxious (I started to pay attention, and have at a distance now often mistaken a Hilux for a P-series judging by projected chrome area alone...)
If it bothers you, black out kit is like R2k. Replacement LTD grills go for R3k+
3. Something about indicators and the radio.
Not aware of anything currently. Radio can be reset if it does cause an issue but this seems to be fixed with an update.
4. GWM couldn't decide on a single logo so kinda took a shotgun approach with what they put where.
Not quite sure hows this bothers you? Same logo back and front. Also get blackouts if you want but I wear the logo happily.
5. No roof light at the rear.
LTD version has, otherwise there is a DIY light with harness that plugs into the front. I think it was like R700?
6. Initial uncertainty about the towing capacity.
This has been established. While its 3.5T in Aus and other areas, the GVM dictates it here in SA depending on model. I can only tell you for sure its 2200kg on the LTD.
7. Fuel tank, diesel filter and a couple of other things rather exposed under the vehicle
This is only if you really use it offroad. I have never heard of anyone but me hitting the tank, but its still there. Some people just mention the filter as more of an observation of what can hit in theory. My use case is probably different to 99% of the other P Series.

[PsyPhin]

And shop around. Some dealers can knock off huge amounts from the price, some offer 7 year/200k km guarantees for example.

[Seerower]

1. It's somewhat underpowered (strangely, because comparisons seems to be made between top-end models, it's never said that similarly priced Toyotas and Fords have got similar power and torque...)
It isnt a racecar, but I would say its quicker than my manual 2.2 Ranger. The gearbox makes up for it, but if you want to overtake at 120kmh you feel it struggle.
The power isnt a 4L V8, it is a ZF gearbox thing where it needs to be in the correct rev range.
2. The giant chrome grill is obnoxious (I started to pay attention, and have at a distance now often mistaken a Hilux for a P-series judging by projected chrome area alone...)
If it bothers you, black out kit is like R2k. Replacement LTD grills go for R3k+
3. Something about indicators and the radio.
Not aware of anything currently. Radio can be reset if it does cause an issue but this seems to be fixed with an update.
4. GWM couldn't decide on a single logo so kinda took a shotgun approach with what they put where.
Not quite sure hows this bothers you? Same logo back and front. Also get blackouts if you want but I wear the logo happily.
5. No roof light at the rear.
LTD version has, otherwise there is a DIY light with harness that plugs into the front. I think it was like R700?
6. Initial uncertainty about the towing capacity.
This has been established. While its 3.5T in Aus and other areas, the GVM dictates it here in SA depending on model. I can only tell you for sure its 2200kg on the LTD.
7. Fuel tank, diesel filter and a couple of other things rather exposed under the vehicle
This is only if you really use it offroad. I have never heard of anyone but me hitting the tank, but its still there. Some people just mention the filter as more of an observation of what can hit in theory. My use case is probably different to 99% of the other P Series.

Ja, what I probably should have added to the book is that these were the gripes I picked up on the interwebs. To be honest neither the power nor the grill is an issue for me; it has more power and torque than I'm currently used to, and as mentioned, a few models of the Hilux don't stand back in the chrome grill parade, and no-one seems to mind that. Interestingly the local dealer said they now offer a black grill with "Great Wall Motors" written, instead of the P logo.

I never noticed the different logos until some Oz youtuber pointed it out. Rear roof light may or may not be a bother... there are no seerowertjies and the vast majority of the time I have a strong LED flashlight on me.

The dealer sells a set of bash plates that are similar (in shape?) to the LTD's. The blurb on the wall however said its aluminium-magnesium, which obviously has a mass advantage over steel plates but definitely not as strong. I kinda presumed the LTD's plates are steel?

And shop around. Some dealers can knock off huge amounts from the price, some offer 7 year/200k km guarantees for example.

I've seen this looking at autotrader and cars.co.za. It breaks my brain how thats possible, and on the one hand makes me concerned about whether the local dealer will support a vehicle bought from a franchise outside his dealership network.

[QuQ]

Wait, what?

Dmax has the same engine and gearbox as the hilux and Fortuna?

He is referring to the fact that they use an Aisin sourced auto gearbox, as does Isuzu.

[PsyPhin]

I've seen this looking at autotrader and cars.co.za. It breaks my brain how thats possible, and on the one hand makes me concerned about whether the local dealer will support a vehicle bought from a franchise outside his dealership network.

Ive seen it at GWM official dealers so any network dealer should support it.
Annoys me as I obviously paid more for less warranty period, but such is life for being an early adopter.

[pjf110]

Wait, what?

Dmax has the same engine and gearbox as the hilux and Fortuna?

V6 Amarok is not a bi turbo.

Apologies, my mistake on V6 Amarok

The Mazda bt50 and isuzu (Dmax and Mux) use same engine and gearbox. That same gearbox (not engine) is shared by Hilux, Fortuner and if Im not mistaken Mahindra scorpioN.

Just wanting to highlight that on top of the renowned reliability of the 3.0 Isuzu motor the gearbox also seems to be pretty robust.

[Seerower]

... the local dealer said they now offer a black grill with "Great Wall Motors" written, instead of the P logo...

And as Murphy would have it, I saw one with this new grill at a traffic light intersection today. It looks pretty cool...

Would the LTD's wheels fit the LT? I do like the six-spoke design better than the many-spoked one.

When switching from AWD mode to 4L, is my understanding correct that the transfer case is then effectively locked, i.e. 50/50 split between front and rear? Does this also apply to "Cross Country Expert Mode" (which as far as I can gather from YT is effectively a "traditional 4H")?

:- P

[PsyPhin]

Would the LTD's wheels fit the LT? I do like the six-spoke design better than the many-spoked one.
:- P

I am not sure, never seen anyone try it. But cant imagine they changed the wheel setup from the LT.

When switching from AWD mode to 4L, is my understanding correct that the transfer case is then effectively locked, i.e. 50/50 split between front and rear? Does this also apply to "Cross Country Expert Mode" (which as far as I can gather from YT is effectively a "traditional 4H")?
:- P

It is pretty much locked, but can slightly adjust as needed. It is computer controlled but rear always gets at least 50% in any event.
Cross country mode effectively turns off all computer safety systems/traction aids etc. It can be switched off in any mode.

[Seerower]

So the Kool-Aid's pull was too strong to resist, and this evening a white LT 4x4 is sleeping in the garage

[DouglasN]

Yup sorry, I got a bit carried away

Which does bring me to one of my questions, which is perhaps more a general "car dealer" type one: how is it possible for one dealership to offer a new vehicle at R150K less than the sticker price? And how do new vehicles end up at used car franchises, also at significantly lower prices? In the latter case, how would one go about verifying that the vehicle will have the same warranty and service plan as a new one from the name-brand dealer?

At the moment, the Current P-Series is in a runout phase, we are getting rid of the last existing stock before the new model, the P300 , is launched in Feb. GWM SA gave a discount to dealers on the last stock units they had, so they are being sold at the lower price, however, during the year, some dealers bought lots of stock at the standard price and are now sitting trying to sell them at full retail.

Then you have the guys who bought the discounted units and are selling them at VERY good markups , to make money.


Some dealers also moved a lot of the discounted stock to used car guys at R20k markups.

[Seerower]

At the moment, the Current P-Series is in a runout phase, we are getting rid of the last existing stock before the new model, the P300 , is launched in Feb. GWM SA gave a discount to dealers on the last stock units they had, so they are being sold at the lower price, however, during the year, some dealers bought lots of stock at the standard price and are now sitting trying to sell them at full retail.

Then you have the guys who bought the discounted units and are selling them at VERY good markups , to make money.


Some dealers also moved a lot of the discounted stock to used car guys at R20k markups.

Thanks Doug that all makes sense.

I ended up buying one of the "R150K below retail" ones I mentioned from a large 2nd hand group here in the WC province, with full disclosure given by them as to the reasons they can sell the vehicles at that price. Full service plan & warranty *from original registration ~6m ago). It had 297km on the clock when I gave the green light, and stood on 421km when I parked it last night. I'm super excited.

I'm also really glad I saw your post about the imminent P300 introduction prior to deciding to go ahead with this deal, as I could make an informed choice, knowing that it's an end-of-line vehicle and due for replacement. No surprises when you buy a car and a couple of months later there's a new version, I was pre-warned that this would be the case.

It's like a spaceship compared to my Colt! I'm slowly figuring out the nuances and quirks (and chuckling about the occasional chinglish in the manual). I remain stumped in my efforts to try and turn down the volume of the park distance control beeps....

[Seerower]

So just a little over two weeks now, and I've driven it for more kilos myself now than what I picked it up at. Mostly work-and-back trips unfortunately, but at least also two separate shooting range trips last weekend and this weekend. It remains really early days, but one can only have first impression for so long, so a summary of them below, while its still fresh:

The Good:
- Everything works! Yes I know it's supposed to, but I'm more referring to the built-in automation. Last weekend on N2 and R300, with the cruise control on, save for lane changes it effectively drove itself, right up to the persistent traffic jam between the R300, N1 and Okavango drive. I've got all the nanny-settings on their standard "sensitivities" (with the intention to see what irritates me) and while they're generally noticeable, I have yet to find them distracting.
- It's a head-turner! I've had a few committed Foryota guys make casual enquiries about what and how, and then be very surprised at the how much.
- The auto box definitely gets the best from the engine. It's never going to win drag races but going up Sir Lowry's pass yesterday with a cab full of gear was... more elegant... than with the Colt.
- I really like the driving experience. It's a bakkie, without being purely utilitarian. It turns sharper than I'm used to, and the cameras do an excellent job of ensuring situational awareness.
- It is a really nice space to be in, especially at the front. Everyone is also massively surprised about how roomy and comfortable the rear seats are.
- There's tons more, but to avoid a wall of text, onto...

The Bad (or at least, the Could Have Been Better):
- I would have expected the infotainment system (at least the radio) to be more refined. It does very little with RDS info, I got more info at a glance from my Colt's Becker radio.
- The preference settings on the system are not always intuitive. When you figure something out it's obvious that there's some kind of logic to it, but as I say, not intuitive. I have to admit that I have no reference with other vehicles, on the Colt the infotainment consisted of the radio's volume knob!
- I would have liked more customization options for the driver's display.
- The tyres. The Cooper Discoverer HTSs are advertised for Urban SUV use. From that I gather they're effectively road tyres, given that's where I spend the majority of my driving time, they should be an excellent answer to that. However, I'm concerned about they're suitability for gravel roads, and the odd proper offroad paadjie. On holidays I do like to take the road less travelled, and I never had a day's worry to do that with the Firestone Destinations and later the Goodyear Wranglers I had on the Colt. I can find no solid info on the construction of the HTSs, so that remains a concern.
- I'm a fan of a slightly higher profile. I wonder if 265/65/17s like on the Commercial version wouldn't have been a better option than the 265/60/18s...

The Ugly
- The sound quality of the speakers... for the first time in years do I have a car that's quiet enough inside to actually listen to music, and the sound quality is sorely lacking in depth. No amount of playing around with the (limited) settings brings a marked improvement.
- My brain needs a rewire! I KNOW all autoboxes have the R at the top and the D at the bottom. But man, wouldn't it have been really intuitive to push the selector forward to drive forward and rearward to drive rearward. This one is me, not the car, I know...

What makes me happy is that I'm excited every time I get it to drive somewhere, and slightly disappointed every time I stop and get out. I can't wait to take it on a bit of a longer trip, hopefully in the course of December.

[PsyPhin]

Since I am the other owner of a P series on the forum, I must agree with your sentiments.

Engine is shift but the gearbox makes up for it. I came from a stage 2 3.2 Ford Ranger so miss that power but it does what it needs to do.
Sound system isnt the best, but easily upgradable with a underseat sub.
Many times I see people looking at it and mouthing off "WTF car is that?". Better or worse I dont know

The LTD model which is basically the same build as the LT, comes with 265/65/18s standard so that wont be an issue if you want to stick to the 18"s and have the bigger profile without rubbing or problems with dealers.
I love driving the thing. I do wish it had rear coils instead of leafs though. I cant afford a fancy bakkie like a new model Ranger.

Just try not to get too comfortable with the driving aids. It feels like you can look around and not pay too much attention but one time I forgot to enable the cruise, and I had a slight oopsie assuming the car was in control of the traffic.