Defender Puma 2.4 tdci power loss in 6th gear

[Montari]

Good afternoon fellow Landy people. I need help on a frustrating issue. I recently had the following done to my 2011 Defender 110 (210000 kms): Water pump, EGR valve, reconditioned injectors, Clutch. All except the clutch was done by an independent Land Rover garage and the clutch by LR dealer. Symptoms before were heavy smoking on cold start for 3-5 min after which it ran well with no smoke. When the water pump started leaking it was taken to the garage to fix and then asked about the smoke. This lead to the EGR change but it didn't solve the issue so the garage send the injectors for testing and all failed. Reconditioned injectors in and now it starts and idles well and pulls like a train for 5km after which it loses all torque in 5th and 6 gear. Maximum 3000 rpm. Apparently no fault codes according to the garage.

I had some good advice from the forum in the past, so what could it be?

[Swiegie1]

Hi

First thing that comes to mind is, did they code the injectors correctly when they re-installed them?

I might be wrong, but I am not sure if this model is completely mechanical or if electronics are controlled via ECU.

T

[Montari]

Hi

First thing that comes to mind is, did they code the injectors correctly when they re-installed them?

I might be wrong, but I am not sure if this model is completely mechanical or if electronics are controlled via ECU.

T

Yes Swiegie, it was checked when I took it back.

[skietskopdonder]

Do you have any hissing or whining when your car is under load?

When accelerating heavy is there any black/blue/grey/white smoke out the exhaust?

EDIT:
This is caused by the VCV, it's an easy and relatively cheap fix

[Montari]

Do you have any hissing or whining when your car is under load?

When accelerating heavy is there any black/blue/grey/white smoke out the exhaust?

EDIT:
This is caused by the VCV, it's an easy and relatively cheap fix

Morning Skietskopd. No hissing but black smoke sometimes on acceleration.
I have heard about VCV.
Thanks

[clivemd]

Hi

First thing that comes to mind is, did they code the injectors correctly when they re-installed them?

I might be wrong, but I am not sure if this model is completely mechanical or if electronics are controlled via ECU.

T

not sure about the puma with injector codes but the TD5 will run with out any problem with out changing codes, these injectors are over 20 yrs old and were not that clever, they not like modern injectors

[JackJack]

Just a quick question. @ 3000rpm in 6th gear I'm running at +- 120km/h (also 2.4)
At what point to you feal the loss of torque, and does it get better then when you gear back down?
Did they replace EGR or black it off?
Air? MAP MAF sensors?

Good luck.

Good afternoon fellow Landy people. I need help on a frustrating issue. I recently had the following done to my 2011 Defender 110 (210000 kms): Water pump, EGR valve, reconditioned injectors, Clutch. All except the clutch was done by an independent Land Rover garage and the clutch by LR dealer. Symptoms before were heavy smoking on cold start for 3-5 min after which it ran well with no smoke. When the water pump started leaking it was taken to the garage to fix and then asked about the smoke. This lead to the EGR change but it didn't solve the issue so the garage send the injectors for testing and all failed. Reconditioned injectors in and now it starts and idles well and pulls like a train for 5km after which it loses all torque in 5th and 6 gear. Maximum 3000 rpm. Apparently no fault codes according to the garage.

I had some good advice from the forum in the past, so what could it be?

[Montari]

Hi JackJack

As you drive at +-110 in 6th you suddenly lose all torque, slightest incline the revs drop and your gear down to 5th and you still slow down. It sort of revs freely but only up to 3000 and no torque at all. Must be computer overriding the diesel delivery. There is just no power. They replaced the EGR with new LR model. New air filter and new diesel filter and I cleaned MAP and MAF myself. They said the diesel looked dirty and cleaned fuel lines. But it did the power loss thing before and after. First time it took about 30km to show up, nowadays at the same hill going into town about 5km from my house.

[coetzer94]

Also suspect the MAP/MAF sensor. Similar to what my Hilux did in regards to losing power while not displaying any codes.
See if you can swop out the MAF sensor with a friend's and take a drive to confirm

[Montari]

Good idea, my colleague also has a similar Defender. Thanks

[ClaudeG]

Hi Montari

1. Check boost pipe for split. Sometimes very difficult to spot. Rather remove and inspect end to end.
2. Check wires on the turbo actuator. After 13 years im sure they brittle, mine were also.
3. Check wires on the mass air flow sensor.
4. Replace VCV
5. Replace fuel filter, if you haven't already.
6. Might have a bad map resulting in overfuelling. Consider installing original map from LR.

Cheers
Claude

[Montari]

Thanks Claude, makes sense according to what I read in Google. Point 6, bad map? What does that mean?

[Bosvark Kzn]

@Montari

My one was performing without issues in town and dirt road driving, but once you hit the open road, doing like 120 km/h, it had the same symptoms as yours.

I knew the loss of performance was due to it going into limp mode, but why?

I only figured it out when I had someone drive it and I sat passenger with my diagnostic tool, keeping an eye on live data. I noticed the coolant temperature going up and then when it reached a certain temp, it would go into limp mode.

While this was happening, the temp gauge did not move from its normal position. In fact, I’ve never seen the temp gauge gradually climb when there’s an overheating problem, it always goes from normal position all the way into the red in an instance. Not sure why it's like that, but it’s not very helpful. The way the temp gauge functions, basically just tells you “ok now it’s too late” it already overheated.

Anyway, after that, I went through the coolant system and found the radiator to be dirty, grass seeds etc. Cleaned it properly and made sure I bled the coolant system properly and correctly (this is very important) and in my case it sorted the problem out.

[LandyLove]

@Montari

My one was performing without issues in town and dirt road driving, but once you hit the open road, doing like 120 km/h, it had the same symptoms as yours.

I knew the loss of performance was due to it going into limp mode, but why?

I only figured it out when I had someone drive it and I sat passenger with my diagnostic tool, keeping an eye on live data. I noticed the coolant temperature going up and then when it reached a certain temp, it would go into limp mode.

While this was happening, the temp gauge did not move from its normal position. In fact, I’ve never seen the temp gauge gradually climb when there’s an overheating problem, it always goes from normal position all the way into the red in an instance. Not sure why it's like that, but it’s not very helpful. The way the temp gauge functions, basically just tells you “ok now it’s too late” it already overheated.

Anyway, after that, I went through the coolant system and found the radiator to be dirty, grass seeds etc. Cleaned it properly and made sure I bled the coolant system properly and correctly (this is very important) and in my case it sorted the problem out.

Correct. I have paid for 2 heads on a td5 like this. One instance the water blew out over the windscreen and when I looked down at the gauge it only went from normal to your’e dead.

Also check that the oil cooler etc is clean and not clogged with mud etc.

I had a VDO direct feed gauge installed to tell me exactly whats happening. But this actually stresses you out even more if you know.

[Bosvark Kzn]

@Montari

My one was performing without issues in town and dirt road driving, but once you hit the open road, doing like 120 km/h, it had the same symptoms as yours.

I knew the loss of performance was due to it going into limp mode, but why?

I only figured it out when I had someone drive it and I sat passenger with my diagnostic tool, keeping an eye on live data. I noticed the coolant temperature going up and then when it reached a certain temp, it would go into limp mode.

While this was happening, the temp gauge did not move from its normal position. In fact, I’ve never seen the temp gauge gradually climb when there’s an overheating problem, it always goes from normal position all the way into the red in an instance. Not sure why it's like that, but it’s not very helpful. The way the temp gauge functions, basically just tells you “ok now it’s too late” it already overheated.

Anyway, after that, I went through the coolant system and found the radiator to be dirty, grass seeds etc. Cleaned it properly and made sure I bled the coolant system properly and correctly (this is very important) and in my case it sorted the problem out.

Just as a side note, if you need to clean the radiator, clean the intercooler as well as it also gets blocked with grass seeds etc. and since it’s positioned in front of the radiator, it will block airflow to the radiator.

[WernerDV]

Do you know if your injectors were tested on a bench after the recon?

My Isuzu had the same symptoms. All is well until you overtake or hit an incline in 5th gear, then no more power. Had it on a dyno for 2 days and couldn't isolate the issue. Fuel consumption also increased drastically when this happened.

Eventually had the injectors pulled and tested on a bench, they were all leaking.

[clivemd]

LandRover water temp gauges are sh@t no other word for it

[Montari]

@Montari

My one was performing without issues in town and dirt road driving, but once you hit the open road, doing like 120 km/h, it had the same symptoms as yours.

I knew the loss of performance was due to it going into limp mode, but why?

I only figured it out when I had someone drive it and I sat passenger with my diagnostic tool, keeping an eye on live data. I noticed the coolant temperature going up and then when it reached a certain temp, it would go into limp mode.

While this was happening, the temp gauge did not move from its normal position. In fact, I’ve never seen the temp gauge gradually climb when there’s an overheating problem, it always goes from normal position all the way into the red in an instance. Not sure why it's like that, but it’s not very helpful. The way the temp gauge functions, basically just tells you “ok now it’s too late” it already overheated.

Anyway, after that, I went through the coolant system and found the radiator to be dirty, grass seeds etc. Cleaned it properly and made sure I bled the coolant system properly and correctly (this is very important) and in my case it sorted the problem out.

Hi Bosvark. This makes a lot of sense. On a very cold Thursday last week I passed the hill without the symptoms. I am planning to do the radiator and the hose check this week and will report back.

[ClaudeG]

@Montari

My one was performing without issues in town and dirt road driving, but once you hit the open road, doing like 120 km/h, it had the same symptoms as yours.

I knew the loss of performance was due to it going into limp mode, but why?

I only figured it out when I had someone drive it and I sat passenger with my diagnostic tool, keeping an eye on live data. I noticed the coolant temperature going up and then when it reached a certain temp, it would go into limp mode.

While this was happening, the temp gauge did not move from its normal position. In fact, I’ve never seen the temp gauge gradually climb when there’s an overheating problem, it always goes from normal position all the way into the red in an instance. Not sure why it's like that, but it’s not very helpful. The way the temp gauge functions, basically just tells you “ok now it’s too late” it already overheated.

Anyway, after that, I went through the coolant system and found the radiator to be dirty, grass seeds etc. Cleaned it properly and made sure I bled the coolant system properly and correctly (this is very important) and in my case it sorted the problem out.

Good advice! If the cooling system is fine after checking, could be a bad map still. Maps cause temps to accelerate in high gears pushing pumas into limp.

[Montari]

So I bled the radiator and cleaned it and the intercooler externally. I also had it on a diagnostics computer. The turbo boost and diesel delivery are not the problem. The temp is also good.
The problem is that injector learning was not done. It also says overfueling is happening. We tried doing the injector learn but it bombed out about three times. He reckons the reconditioned injectors are bad. Lately the Landy smothers around 2000 rpm and black smoke comes out. Also at idle it revs up to 2000rpm on its own before returning to normal. Not happy with the garage that did the injectors in Worcester.