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  1. #41
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    Default Re: Eskom gunning for higher fixed costs

    When CoCT split the connection fee from "all in one bill", they took the time and effort to explain it all.

    It boils down to one simple fact:
    When more and more people start using solar (Cpt now), them having to install a PAYG meter, yet they still want to be connected to the grid, WHO pays for that maintenance, upgrades, of the grid infrastructure that CoCT maintains? To have the convenience of IF and WHEN you do need Eskom generated power sold by CoCT?

    Simple Answer: Everyone that has a connection to their grid, pays a connection fee.


    So the same is happening now with Eskom. Boohoo.

    Eskoms infrastructure HAS to be maintained. With or without the shenanigans going on there. (Just makes it more expensive, but that is another matter totally.)

    Recall the talked about split of Eskom between Generation (cost per kWh/Units) and Distribution (monthly connection fee IF you want to use kWh/Units)?

    So relax people. It is inevitable.

    OR, tell whomever to remove your connection to any grid ... your choice.


    Now I understand, we will have people foaming at the mouth, conspiracy theories, blame the politicians, fact is, it costs to maintain the grid infrastructure.

    Finish en Klaar.
    Last edited by the_terrible_triplett; 2024/06/20 at 09:04 AM.
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  3. #42
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    Default Re: Eskom gunning for higher fixed costs

    Quote Originally Posted by the_terrible_triplett View Post
    When CoCT split the connection fee from "all in one bill", they took the time and effort to explain it all.

    It boils down to one simple fact:
    When more and more people start using solar (Cpt now), them having to install a PAYG meter, yet they still want to be connected to the grid, WHO pays for that maintenance, upgrades, of the grid infrastructure that CoCT maintains? To have the convenience of IF and WHEN you do need Eskom generated power sold by CoCT?

    Simple Answer: Everyone that has a connection to their grid, pays a connection fee.


    So the same is happening now with Eskom. Boohoo.

    Eskoms infrastructure HAS to be maintained. With or without the shenanigans going on there. (Just makes it more expensive, but that is another matter totally.)

    Recall the talked about split of Eskom between Generation (cost per kWh/Units) and Distribution (monthly connection fee IF you want to use kWh/Units)?

    So relax people. It is inevitable.

    OR, tell whomever to remove your connection to any grid ... your choice.


    Now I understand, we will have people foaming at the mouth, conspiracy theories, blame the politicians, fact is, it costs to maintain the grid infrastructure.

    Finish en Klaar.
    maybe if escom and government did not loot, steel all the money billions and billions from escom and SOE. The connection fee applies to every one NOT just the easy targets it might be different, so we must suffer for there mismanagement and long pockets
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  5. #43
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    Default Re: Eskom gunning for higher fixed costs

    Quote Originally Posted by clivemd View Post
    maybe if escom and government did not loot, steel all the money billions and billions from escom and SOE. The connection fee applies to every one NOT just the easy targets it might be different, so we must suffer for there mismanagement and long pockets
    Clive I think TTT specifically said that the stealing and looting is a separate case altogether but that there is an actual cost cannot be denied.

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  7. #44
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    Default Re: Eskom gunning for higher fixed costs

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal Hannes View Post
    Clive I think TTT specifically said that the stealing and looting is a separate case altogether but that there is an actual cost cannot be denied.
    Until the looting and steeling is stopped then let’s talk about connection fees, cos all will happen is we will pay and it will be stollen
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  8. #45
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    Default Re: Eskom gunning for higher fixed costs

    Quote Originally Posted by clivemd View Post
    Until the looting and steeling is stopped then let’s talk about connection fees, cos all will happen is we will pay and it will be stollen
    "There is a cost of doing business", ANC terms "Feeding trough" reference.

    That does NOT mean every single cent is "stolen", misappropriated.

    On top of which, the ANC has lost power.

    On top of that, the courts are not under Zuma control anymore.

    And Gnl Hat (Bheke) is gone.

    .. glass half full if you want.

    Still does not detract from the fact that Generation is one thing, Distribution a totally different matter,at least heading towards it, with the theft a totally different kettle of fish. Thank you Hannes.

    Once things are split, the controls WILL BE more effective. Smaller Balance Sheets to investigate if you want.

    Now the glass is full.
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  10. #46
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    Default Re: Eskom gunning for higher fixed costs

    Quote Originally Posted by Gungets Tuft View Post
    DStv dishes are meaningless. Don't assume that everyone has the premium package.

    Here are the cheapest DStv packages in South Africa
    - EasyView: R29pm for 36 channels
    - Access: R129pm for 72 channels
    - Family: R319pm for 93 channels
    - Compact: R449pm for 124 channels
    - Compact Plus: R579pm for 140 channels
    - Premium: R879pm for 154 channels
    I got my live-in maid that 29/m package and a TV. When I had to let her go, I gave her the tv and the decoder and dish and kept on paying the 29/m for her for a few years now. They never touch that one when it comes to price increases.

    Back to Eskom. On my Ekurhuleni bill since I got pre-paid, there is no Electricity charge on my bill anymore. What is this availability charge? Is it only charged to Eskom direct clients? Excuse my ignorance but I am not sure about this availability thing and how me as a suburb dweller with pre-paid will be impacted.

    I have solar and I have zero doubt they will try to get me to pay for that in some way or form in the future. Just waiting to see what slimy way they will go about it.

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  12. #47
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    Default Re: Eskom gunning for higher fixed costs

    Quote Originally Posted by Blikka View Post
    Back to Eskom. On my Ekurhuleni bill since I got pre-paid, there is no Electricity charge on my bill anymore. What is this availability charge? Is it only charged to Eskom direct clients? Excuse my ignorance but I am not sure about this availability thing and how me as a suburb dweller with pre-paid will be impacted.
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  14. #48
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    Default Re: Eskom gunning for higher fixed costs

    I understand that there’s a fixed cost, and CoCT has been doing if for a few years already. I’m on around R250pm iirc. The point of the post and article is around the ‘HIGHER’ part, they are mentioning amounts closer to R1k, which in my mind is ridiculous.

  15. #49
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    Default Re: Eskom gunning for higher fixed costs

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamakazi View Post
    Once your municipality get their house in order they will charge you a monthly fee on your rates & taxes bill if you have prepaid, if you don't pay your rates & taxes they will allocate a % portion of your pre-paid purchase to your property rates & taxes bill.
    Done this in the Free State. R416 a month. Even if you are totally off grid.
    Feeding the nation of thieves and useless.

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    Default Re: Eskom gunning for higher fixed costs

    With the approved debundling of Escom, Escom will split into Generation, Grid and Distribution to end-users. As for Generation, the new Escom will have to compete with private sector generation such as solar, wind. Likewise distribution arm will compete with municipalities. The one component without stiff competition is the Grid. If I were involved with Escom I would do my level best to maximise the fixed cost (Grid) and minimise the usage cost (Generation). Once the debundling has been finalised the Grid component will be profitable.
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  18. #51
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    Default Re: Eskom gunning for higher fixed costs

    Now THIS is a problem ...

    https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/arti...o-44-next-year

    Eskom will ask SA’s energy regulator for an electricity tariff increase of 36.15% in 2025 for customers it directly charges and supplies. Customers relying on electricity supply from local authorities (municipalities) could also be slapped with an increase of 43.55%.
    Will see wat the new GNU does with this ...
    Political Correctness
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  19. #52
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    Default Re: Eskom gunning for higher fixed costs

    Quote Originally Posted by the_terrible_triplett View Post
    Now THIS is a problem ...

    https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/arti...o-44-next-year



    Will see wat the new GNU does with this ...
    The GNU can't make a decision on Eskom's request NERSA decides, all the GNU can do is appoint the NERSA panel. The last panel was appointed in 2022 and I believe they have a 5 year term unless they resign or get fired for wrongdoing.

  20. #53
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    Default Re: Eskom gunning for higher fixed costs

    Quote Originally Posted by the_terrible_triplett View Post
    Now THIS is a problem ...

    https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/arti...o-44-next-year



    Will see wat the new GNU does with this ...
    But again every year they ask for some ridiculous amount, then NERSA gives like half that and everyone goes *whew that was close*, but we sit with a 20% hike and everyone is okay with it
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  22. #54
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    Default Re: Eskom gunning for higher fixed costs

    Quote Originally Posted by the_terrible_triplett View Post
    When CoCT split the connection fee from "all in one bill", they took the time and effort to explain it all.

    It boils down to one simple fact:
    When more and more people start using solar (Cpt now), them having to install a PAYG meter, yet they still want to be connected to the grid, WHO pays for that maintenance, upgrades, of the grid infrastructure that CoCT maintains? To have the convenience of IF and WHEN you do need Eskom generated power sold by CoCT?

    Simple Answer: Everyone that has a connection to their grid, pays a connection fee.


    So the same is happening now with Eskom. Boohoo.

    Eskoms infrastructure HAS to be maintained. With or without the shenanigans going on there. (Just makes it more expensive, but that is another matter totally.)

    Recall the talked about split of Eskom between Generation (cost per kWh/Units) and Distribution (monthly connection fee IF you want to use kWh/Units)?

    So relax people. It is inevitable.

    OR, tell whomever to remove your connection to any grid ... your choice.


    Now I understand, we will have people foaming at the mouth, conspiracy theories, blame the politicians, fact is, it costs to maintain the grid infrastructure.

    Finish en Klaar.
    Not so simple, the current kWh tariff includes the cost of maintaining the grid as calculated by Eskom and presented to NERSA and approved. What's happening now is that due to Eskom's inefficiencies they aren't selling enough kWhs to fund the maintenance. Eskom's increased tariff's as well as the fixed tariff request as tabled at NERSA is being challenged on the basis that making it easier for Eskom to fund itself without having to improve it's performance is the fundamental principle to the opposition thereof. Eskom are in for a very rough ride in trying to get this through and so far NERSA has been unsympathetic to their self inflicted plight.

    Finish and klaar is way off the mark as a statement.

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  24. #55
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    Default Re: Eskom gunning for higher fixed costs

    Quote Originally Posted by River Rat View Post
    Not so simple, the current kWh tariff includes the cost of maintaining the grid as calculated by Eskom and presented to NERSA and approved. What's happening now is that due to Eskom's inefficiencies they aren't selling enough kWhs to fund the maintenance. Eskom's increased tariff's as well as the fixed tariff request as tabled at NERSA is being challenged on the basis that making it easier for Eskom to fund itself without having to improve it's performance is the fundamental principle to the opposition thereof. Eskom are in for a very rough ride in trying to get this through and so far NERSA has been unsympathetic to their self inflicted plight.

    Finish and klaar is way off the mark as a statement.
    You are right. Right now today it is all in one charge for Eskom. And it is biting them badly.

    However, mixing multiple facts into on "simple assumed fact", common mistake humans can make.

    Fact that Eskom kWh sales has dropped off a cliff, a blessing for THEM (no LS currently for SA), with even less kWh sold by them into the future when other generation streams do come online, another blessing in disguise for the taxpayers when private sector steps in, is a whole new discussion.

    When more generation capacity comes online in the future, not Eskom, SA economy may pick up again. We will have to wait and see.

    So, to sum up:
    Selling kWh is a variable income stream, as Eskom is now experiencing.
    Grid maintenance is a fixed expense, a escalating cost, as Eskom dearly knows.
    Hence the looming split between Generation, Transmission, and Distribution.

    Hence the "Finish en klaar."


    Take Note: The above are cliff notes only.
    Multiple issues are at play here, each one a full topic on its own.
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  26. #56
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    Default Re: Eskom gunning for higher fixed costs

    Quote Originally Posted by the_terrible_triplett View Post
    You are right. Right now today it is all in one charge for Eskom. And it is biting them badly.

    However, mixing multiple facts into on "simple assumed fact", common mistake humans can make.

    Fact that Eskom kWh sales has dropped off a cliff, a blessing for THEM (no LS currently for SA), with even less kWh sold by them into the future when other generation streams do come online, another blessing in disguise for the taxpayers when private sector steps in, is a whole new discussion.

    When more generation capacity comes online in the future, not Eskom, SA economy may pick up again. We will have to wait and see.

    So, to sum up:
    Selling kWh is a variable income stream, as Eskom is now experiencing.
    Grid maintenance is a fixed expense, a escalating cost, as Eskom dearly knows.
    Hence the looming split between Generation, Transmission, and Distribution.

    Hence the "Finish en klaar."


    Take Note: The above are cliff notes only.
    Multiple issues are at play here, each one a full topic on its own.
    Your assumption that grid maintenance is primarily a fixed expense is wrong it is a combination of fixed and variable with a higher % in the latter. I would agree that the build cost as capital cost is a primarily a fixed cost but in Eskom's case this is mostly a sunk cost paid for many times over. To explain the challenge that Eskom faces in trying to convince NERSA on a fixed cost grid maintenance fee is just ask what this cost is if it doesn't transmit a single kWh and you will see that it is a very low % of what they're asking for. Eskom has failed in the past to get this concept accepted because NERSA and other opponents of a fixed fee challenge them on their fixed vs variable mix. What is being exposed is that Eskom is trying to get paid for what is essentially a stranded asset in an underutilised grid, now it is not NERSA's remit to save Eskom (that's the taxpayers problem as the shareholder) but to rather find a tariff structure that's fair and equitable for all stakeholders.

    Most transmission companies all over the world don't charge a fixed fee for but a rate per kWh, the closest you get to a fixed fee is a take or pay structure. This essentially occurs where a transmission company installs a grid infrastructure for a single client and they need to recoup their capital cost based on a minimum kWh usage. However, by and large they simply charge per kWh.

  27. #57
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    Default Re: Eskom gunning for higher fixed costs

    Quote Originally Posted by the_terrible_triplett View Post
    Now THIS is a problem ...

    https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/arti...o-44-next-year



    Will see wat the new GNU does with this ...
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  29. #58
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    Default Re: Eskom gunning for higher fixed costs

    River Rat are you including cable theft and grid security in your in your sum that fixed cost is low.

    As far as I have seen the last mile is at such high risk.

    Pylons are being broken down systematically by stealing one piece at a time. copper is being replaced with aluminum because of a lower risk of theft

    Grid maintenance is a massive cost in a country where there is more people breaking than building.

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  31. #59
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    Default Re: Eskom gunning for higher fixed costs

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal Hannes View Post
    River Rat are you including cable theft and grid security in your in your sum that fixed cost is low.

    As far as I have seen the last mile is at such high risk.

    Pylons are being broken down systematically by stealing one piece at a time. copper is being replaced with aluminum because of a lower risk of theft

    Grid maintenance is a massive cost in a country where there is more people breaking than building.
    I did not specifically but ask yourself whether this is a fixed or variable cost? If Eskom did what most us do by insuring against theft it would be a fixed cost but as they don't it becomes variable. But your point exposes the real problem which is assume that Eskom installs a transmission line and it gets stolen but it doesn't get replaced quickly, on a fixed charge basis we would continue to pay without a single kWh being delivered. This is exactly the principle that NERSA is grappling with in that Eskom want to be paid whether they deliver power or not, it's also why it presents a constitutional challenge if passed.

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    Default Re: Eskom gunning for higher fixed costs

    I know Citipower better than Eskom but they pay a massive monthly fixed cost for security.

    They pay this fee irrespective if I buy any units or not so I am not averse to paying a reasonable fee for availability. I don't want to but I understand that if we do not finance the maintenance or security there will be no grid when we need it.

    So personally I'm willing to pay a fair amount for availability.

    Maintenance and security is a fixed cost.

    It seems like we might have to revisit the definition of fixed and variable costs.

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