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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Eskom gunning for higher fixed costs

    Quote Originally Posted by JanB View Post
    If you have a CoCT meter Eskom's fee structure does not apply to you.
    You think the DA will not come up with one or other way to do you in?...
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  2. #22
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    Default Re: Eskom gunning for higher fixed costs

    Quote Originally Posted by faniedup View Post
    At the business we already pay R5k a month demand charge before we get a single unit of prepaid electricity, we are subsidizing a few neighborhoods.
    This is something which I think is common and perhaps fair if the infrastructure has to provide this high peak for a short period as 20-30min during the month.

    This tries to get consumers to manage their energy at lower peaks. The managing of the PF comes into play as well where this demand is based on kVA and not on actual Watts used as the network must still provide.

    Yes if this basic fee is to produce a extra income then that must be addressed as a unfair practise. The basic fee of City Power is over the top.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Eskom gunning for higher fixed costs

    Quote Originally Posted by kadafi View Post
    You think the DA will not come up with one or other way to do you in?...
    No, I don't think so.

    Sounds like a "conspiracy theory", that the "DA will do you in" ... "they are after you".
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  4. #24
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    Default Re: Eskom gunning for higher fixed costs

    will they apply the same for all housing? Me not think so.
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  5. #25
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    Default Re: Eskom gunning for higher fixed costs

    Quote Originally Posted by kadafi View Post
    You think the DA will not come up with one or other way to do you in?...
    No.
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  6. #26
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    Default Re: Eskom gunning for higher fixed costs

    Don't be fooled the DA in Tshwane ( at least) are big promoters of a fixed capacity charge simply because they are losing serious revenue from their paying customers. These paying customers represent a large portion of those who can afford to install solar systems. The application for municipalities to apply a fixed fee has been tabled and rejected ( mostly due procedural issues) on numerous occasions but it keeps coming back. There are a number of organisations including these guys Electricity Resellers Association (erasa.org.za) that have already indicated that they will fight this, as the first cost of the prepaid system would go to a capacity charge before a single kWh is bought. Secondly, there would be a constitutional challenge in how can you charge for availability if the system is not always available. This has some way to go but in the end not only is Eskom losing money but so are the municipalities and something has to give.

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  8. #27
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    Default Re: Eskom gunning for higher fixed costs

    Quote Originally Posted by River Rat View Post
    Don't be fooled the DA in Tshwane ( at least) are big promoters of a fixed capacity charge simply because they are losing serious revenue from their paying customers. These paying customers represent a large portion of those who can afford to install solar systems. The application for municipalities to apply a fixed fee has been tabled and rejected ( mostly due procedural issues) on numerous occasions but it keeps coming back. There are a number of organisations including these guys Electricity Resellers Association (erasa.org.za) that have already indicated that they will fight this, as the first cost of the prepaid system would go to a capacity charge before a single kWh is bought. Secondly, there would be a constitutional challenge in how can you charge for availability if the system is not always available. This has some way to go but in the end not only is Eskom losing money but so are the municipalities and something has to give.
    Thanks for this insight. I have always wondered why is there no fixed charge after they tried to implement it years ago.

  9. #28
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    Default Re: Eskom gunning for higher fixed costs

    We all have to agree that the network does cost to maintain and its not thievery to have a minimum charge.

    The problem is when it is a total ridiculous amount

    There has to be a balance.

    I do think that going off grid completely will be the answer in the future.

    I hope we go towards something like Fibre cost a fixed amount for a fixed usage. If you use less you don't pay less but if you go over you can buy more.

    This will need some careful planning by clever people to make it as fair as possible while still subsidizing the poorest and the thieves.

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  11. #29
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    Default Re: Eskom gunning for higher fixed costs

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal Hannes View Post
    I do think that going off grid completely will be the answer in the future.
    Ultimately, I reckon this will be regulated / taxed too. To subsidise "the poorest and the thieves".
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  13. #30
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    Default Re: Eskom gunning for higher fixed costs

    Why must it always be the legal people that always suffer and all the illegal connections carry on as normal, when is enuf enuf
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  15. #31
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    Default Re: Eskom gunning for higher fixed costs

    Quote Originally Posted by iandvl View Post
    Ultimately, I reckon this will be regulated / taxed too. To subsidise "the poorest and the thieves".
    Correct. How on our green earth will they get the electricity thieves in Soweto (and various other "previously disadvantaged" areas) to pay the fixed fee if they are not even pay the current fee for usage?
    If one considers the number of DSTV dishes in the informal settlements, I don't think affordability can be used as an excuse

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  17. #32
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    Default Re: Eskom gunning for higher fixed costs

    My take is that the fixed charge on electricity supply will become part of the property tax, i.e. even if you go off grid you will still have to pay it as part of property tax. And that principle is more than fair in my opinion, even if you go off-grid in a municipality, the infrastructure has to be there for when you or owners after you want to get on the grid again. It would then also not interfere with pre-paid meters, you will get the units you pay for, and the connection fee will be for the cost of the property owner on his tax bill (important to remember in case of rented housing).
    What do become problematic is if that cost gets added to the tax bill without the unit price of electricity coming down with a corresponding amount, then the whole scheme becomes unfair.
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  18. #33
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    Default Re: Eskom gunning for higher fixed costs

    my guys pay R100/ month fixed charge
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  19. #34
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    Default Re: Eskom gunning for higher fixed costs

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike N View Post
    My take is that the fixed charge on electricity supply will become part of the property tax, i.e. even if you go off grid you will still have to pay it as part of property tax. And that principle is more than fair in my opinion, even if you go off-grid in a municipality, the infrastructure has to be there for when you or owners after you want to get on the grid again. It would then also not interfere with pre-paid meters, you will get the units you pay for, and the connection fee will be for the cost of the property owner on his tax bill (important to remember in case of rented housing).
    What do become problematic is if that cost gets added to the tax bill without the unit price of electricity coming down with a corresponding amount, then the whole scheme becomes unfair.
    An additional property tax is ERASA's suggestion to the municipalities so you are not far off.

  20. #35
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    Default Re: Eskom gunning for higher fixed costs

    Quote Originally Posted by Engel View Post
    will they apply the same for all housing? Me not think so.
    No, as mentioned on our side a 20a connection is free with no monthly charge. Basically all low cost housing is on a 20a connection & they also get cheaper prepaid unit rates like 60c cheaper per unit for the 1st 400kwh.

    PS: When I reduced my connection from 60a to 40a I suddenly got 75 free units every month on prepaid for about a year & then it disappeared - they did not mention that I would get these free units, so not sure if it is standard practice..
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  21. #36
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    Default Re: Eskom gunning for higher fixed costs

    If they come with an "availability" charge they'd better make sure power is available, all the time. My first move when, if, they bring it in, would be to go off grid via a small generator and a bunch more panels on East/West. But, if they legislate a mandatory connection and a fixed charge, I'm deducting outages and loadshedding from that cost.

    Available means what it says, yes?

  22. #37
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    Default Re: Eskom gunning for higher fixed costs

    Just checked my latest eskom invoice

    Network capacity charge @ R10.52 per day (excluding VAT)
    That’s R 4,415.77 per annum ( VAT included)

    I would have to weigh up the cost of the “investment” to be totally off the grid against the R4415 savings per annum.

    Rather live with the evil Eskom

  23. #38
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    Default Re: Eskom gunning for higher fixed costs

    Quote Originally Posted by midnightcaller View Post
    Just checked my latest eskom invoice

    Network capacity charge @ R10.52 per day (excluding VAT)
    That’s R 4,415.77 per annum ( VAT included)

    I would have to weigh up the cost of the “investment” to be totally off the grid against the R4415 savings per annum.

    Rather live with the evil Eskom
    If it stays at that level. Pretty sure that, politicians being politicians, once they've got their grubby fingers in your wallet they're not going to stop with the small change. Look at the fuel levy for example. It'll become an Eskom budget balancing tool that slowly boils us to death.

    I understand the reason for it, in a country where politicians have some restraint I'm sure it would work.

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  25. #39
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    Default Re: Eskom gunning for higher fixed costs

    Quote Originally Posted by HennieC View Post
    Correct. How on our green earth will they get the electricity thieves in Soweto (and various other "previously disadvantaged" areas) to pay the fixed fee if they are not even pay the current fee for usage?
    If one considers the number of DSTV dishes in the informal settlements, I don't think affordability can be used as an excuse
    DStv dishes are meaningless. Don't assume that everyone has the premium package.

    Here are the cheapest DStv packages in South Africa
    - EasyView: R29pm for 36 channels
    - Access: R129pm for 72 channels
    - Family: R319pm for 93 channels
    - Compact: R449pm for 124 channels
    - Compact Plus: R579pm for 140 channels
    - Premium: R879pm for 154 channels

  26. #40
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    Default Re: Eskom gunning for higher fixed costs

    Quote Originally Posted by Gungets Tuft View Post
    DStv dishes are meaningless. Don't assume that everyone has the premium package.

    Here are the cheapest DStv packages in South Africa
    - EasyView: R29pm for 36 channels
    - Access: R129pm for 72 channels
    - Family: R319pm for 93 channels
    - Compact: R449pm for 124 channels
    - Compact Plus: R579pm for 140 channels
    - Premium: R879pm for 154 channels
    Openview is a once-off R699.00 payment for the decoder.....

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