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  1. #21
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    Default Re: "Over-investing" in Solar systems - what is the balancing point?

    Quote Originally Posted by River Rat View Post
    We invested heavily in solar over the last 6 months and currently generate 2MWh per day and that is only 60% of our demand, solar generation is limited by daytime demand (we run 24/7) not capacity so we are investing in another 600KWh of battery capacity to push that self generation over 70%. If Eskom pushes through large fixed capacity charges then it will be cheaper for me to cut the cort and add more battery capacity & self generate the shortfall with my 400kva generator than pay their charge.

    As part of our SSEG application we HAVE to push power brack into the grid, which we are happy to do but at the same time the municipality cannot tell us when they will be able to let us do it so at the monent I have at least 1MWh going to waste every day.
    We have discounted any feed in tariff from our investment feasibilities simply because they are so low and further can you imagine getting your money from a bankrupt ANC/EFF run municipality . If your feasibility needs income from a feed in tariff our view is that all you will have is paper money.

    As a matter of interest I have an interesting conversation with our local DA councillor of a DA run municipality questioning the rationale of a low feed in tariff, I explained why their tariffs are too low for investment. I went further to explain how the municipality is missing an opportunity by not upping the rate to make it viable for investment but keeping it below the Eskom supply cost. In essence they would have cheaper electricity to sell at a higher margin, the blank stare I got tells me why I am in business and he is in politics.
    I did not calculate any feed in income when doing my ROI. The feed in requirement was theirs not mine. I have also asked the question about why they are being so difficult to buy cheap electricity from me to sell to my neighbour at big markup, seems like a no-brainer to me
    Last edited by mullerza; 2024/06/14 at 11:16 AM.
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  3. #22
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    Default Re: "Over-investing" in Solar systems - what is the balancing point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
    My point here being that when the grid goes down, production in your business stops. That for me is the balancing act
    Exactly. And the Discovery white paper did not take that cost into account. So the 50% overpay statement is just clickbait.

  4. #23
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    Default Re: "Over-investing" in Solar systems - what is the balancing point?

    Quote Originally Posted by roxenz View Post
    Exactly. And the Discovery white paper did not take that cost into account. So the 50% overpay statement is just clickbait.
    I have no idea why this is now about LS.

    Let me quote from the source document: https://www.discoverygreen.co.za/ass...hite-paper.pdf
    In the absence of battery storage, embedded generation suffers from the inability to ‘bank’ renewable energy generation on a monthly basis. Energy must be consumed as soon as it is generated, or it is wasted and the business incurs an effective cost on every kWh actually consumed. The concept of monthly energy reconciliation (or ‘banking’) is further explained under wheeling of wind and solar energy. This is typically the biggest driving factor behind the relatively low penetration level offered by embedded generation, along with a business’s available roof space or adjacent land in fortunate circumstances.
    Since solar panels will exclusively produce energy during the day, businesses will first exhaust their quota of standard hours. Beyond this point, any additional generation capacity added will result in wasted generation ...
    Additionally, battery storage and green hydrogen, though promising, remain economically impractical for large-scale implementation.
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  5. #24
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    Default Re: "Over-investing" in Solar systems - what is the balancing point?

    The Warning for overinvesting bothers me. Not his money anyway.

    You have 4 choices on solar that makes sense for the ave. household. Do you want power and comfort.

    1]Just enough for you to run critical loads through a 4 hour load shedding schedule

    Usually 5kw inverter/1 5kwh battery and 3000w PV. [R80k about]

    2]Run the house 80% off the grid to you have 1/5 electricity account

    8KW, 16 panels 4 batts. Might run out of power early hrs.[R200-250K]

    3]Grid tied, just reducing the eskom load. Perfect for high use businesses using daytime electricity. No power if eskom is gone

    4]Off grid solution.

    For farms or those that want to over invest and willing to burn cash for comfort. 12kw Inv, 40kwh Batts and 15kwp [+R400k]
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  7. #25
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    Default Re: "Over-investing" in Solar systems - what is the balancing point?

    Not specifically related to this article, I have not read it, I have stopped reading BusinessTech articles or clicking on the links.

    I find many of the articles poor and mostly click bait.
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  9. #26
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    Default Re: "Over-investing" in Solar systems - what is the balancing point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tentpen View Post
    Not specifically related to this article, I have not read it, I have stopped reading BusinessTech articles or clicking on the links.

    I find many of the articles poor and mostly click bait.
    This is a very good example of that.

  10. #27
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    Default Re: "Over-investing" in Solar systems - what is the balancing point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Capt Chaos View Post
    I'm not even calculating.

    just nice to have eskom switched off
    I could not agree more. With load shedding renamed as Load reduction and Eksdom proudly claiming over 70 days without loadshedding...they fail to mentio how much load reduction they are engaging in, Im super happy to be off their dodgy grid
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  11. #28
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    Default Re: "Over-investing" in Solar systems - what is the balancing point?

    Just go overkill and be off-grid. Manage your system, and when your batteries are charged, divert the excess power to a crypto miner or two. Promise you, the returns are way better than Eksdom will pay you for feeding back into the grid.
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  12. #29
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    Default Re: "Over-investing" in Solar systems - what is the balancing point?

    Quote Originally Posted by bfreesani View Post
    Just go overkill and be off-grid. Manage your system, and when your batteries are charged, divert the excess power to a crypto miner or two. Promise you, the returns are way better than Eksdom will pay you for feeding back into the grid.
    I like that idea.

  13. #30
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    Default Re: "Over-investing" in Solar systems - what is the balancing point?

    Unless something seismic happens to existing municipal cost models, we are never going to pay less on aggregate to the municipality-because their model uses utilities as a means of generating revenue to pay their salaries. The less we use, the higher they make the base cost, and if enough of us leave the grid completely, they will pass legislation to prevent that loss of revenue stream. One can see this already in their tariff revisions.

    Quote Originally Posted by River Rat View Post
    Our business sells solar electricity mostly in commercial and residential complexes. The investment return sweet spot is 80% of solar supply when the sun shines and max 2 hours of battery for loadshedding protection. If self sufficiency is the objective obviously the investment returns drop proportional to the quantum of batteries.

    What's lurking in the background is the desire of Eskom and the municipalities wanting supplement lost revenue by means of a fixed capacity charge. Depending on the amount this could have the opposite effect as it may force a drive to total self sufficiency.

  14. #31
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    Default Re: "Over-investing" in Solar systems - what is the balancing point?

    Quote Originally Posted by rob wilson View Post
    Unless something seismic happens to existing municipal cost models, we are never going to pay less on aggregate to the municipality-because their model uses utilities as a means of generating revenue to pay their salaries. The less we use, the higher they make the base cost, and if enough of us leave the grid completely, they will pass legislation to prevent that loss of revenue stream. One can see this already in their tariff revisions.
    The fact that water and electricity is available means you will pay. Use it or not. We will soon find out how much. [then they encourage you to use less, just not nothing]
    Angel Group
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