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  1. #1
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    Default Powerbank vs dual battery comparison

    Hi All, Ecoflow will be sending me their new Alternator Charger quite soon (https://us.ecoflow.com/products/800w-alternator-charger). This device will hopefully solve the biggest issue with using a powerbank in an overlanding vehicle - slow DC charging. I plan to test it and do a comparison between the Ecoflow Delta 2 Max with alternator charger, and a traditional dual battery system when I am in Botswana next month.

    As part of this exercise I need to spec a dual battery system similar to the Ecoflow Delta 2 Max with Alternator Charger:


    1. 2kWh LiFePO 4 battery
    2. 2400W inverter (Surge 4800W)
    3. 2 USB-A ports, 2 100W USB-C ports
    4. 2300W AC charging
    5. 2x 500W solar charging
    6. 800W Alternator charging
    7. Bluetooth monitoring
    8. 5 year warranty


    I reckon I will go with Victron for most of the components in the comparison system since their products are mostly bluetooth enabled and have a 5 year warranty. They are not cheap though. Any more affordable suggestions that can match the specs of the Ecoflow?


    Any suggestions re choice of battery?


    Thanks.

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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Powerbank vs dual battery comparison

    I'm also working on a list of pros and cons. Anything you guys would add to this?

    POWERBANK PROS
    Simple to install
    Less installation wiring = fewer potential points of failure
    Easy to move between two vehicles or between vehicle and house
    Ecoflow claims the Delta 2 battery will still be at 80% after 3000 cycles
    Fast AC charging

    POWERBANK CONS
    One big investment
    All-in-one means potential for total failure
    Can't replace battery (but can add external one)
    Not as useful or as customisable for 12V accessories like lights, compressor, etc.

    DUAL BATTERY PROS
    Can purchase bit by bit over time
    Can spec precisely to ones requirements (eg may not need a big inverter or AC charger)
    If one part fails, can be replaced or repaired
    Can replace batteries
    Proven to handle vibration, heat, dust, etc.

    DUAL BATTERY CONS
    More expensive and complicated installation
    Not easy to move between vehicles
    Can't easily use at home
    Slow or no AC charging
    Last edited by bobhof; 2024/06/11 at 08:06 AM.

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  5. #3
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    Default Re: Powerbank vs dual battery comparison

    IMHO, I found that power banks are currently cheaper than dual battery installations for similar capacities, like the Ecoflow Delta 2 Max. I recently switched from a Flexopower 555 (without trailer) to an installed system for a trailer I recently bought. Initially, I wanted to use the Ecoflow Delta 2 Max, but it couldn't fit in the trailer without losing packing space. Instead, I opted for installed batteries with Victron components like shore,DC/DC,MPPT, and an AC/DC inverter. I estimate this setup was +/-33% more expensive than an Ecoflow option, but could use unused paces better.

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  7. #4
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    Default Re: Powerbank vs dual battery comparison

    If you are willing to go with a 24v dual battery system then you can make the Victron setup quite straight forward in terms of wiring as well with a Easysolar 24/3000.
    To get to 800W alternator charging you'll have to run 2x Orion smart 12/24-30A in parallel.

    Note to see the Orion's current in and out of the battery you'll have to add a Smart Shunt to the system as well.

    Also be sure the battery you choose can actually take a 800W charge. Since the objective of this test will be to compare in a overlanding setting, I assume you will not really be worried about a battery which can be charged at more than 800W when using AC for example, since you'll mostly be using alternator and solar.

    Maybe look at something like a Pylontech UP2500, if I remember it can charge/discharge at 50A.
    Last edited by bigboy529; 2024/05/25 at 02:04 PM.
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  9. #5
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    Default Re: Powerbank vs dual battery comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by bigboy529 View Post
    If you are willing to go with a 24v dual battery system then you can make the Victron setup quite straight forward in terms of wiring as well with a Easysolar 24/3000.
    To get to 800W alternator charging you'll have to run 2x Orion smart 12/24-30A in parallel.

    Note to see the Orion's current in and out of the battery you'll have to add a Smart Shunt to the system as well.

    Also be sure the battery you choose can actually take a 800W charge. Since the objective of this test will be to compare in a overlanding setting, I assume you will not really be worried about a battery which can be charged at more than 800W when using AC for example, since you'll mostly be using alternator and solar.

    Maybe look at something like a Pylontech UP2500, if I remember it can charge/discharge at 50A.
    Thanks for the suggestions. The Easysolar 24/3000 does look pretty close. Are these used in overland setups? I think perhaps I'll rather go for separate components for the dual battery system - even if they are specced a bit lower than the Ecoflow.

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    Default Re: Powerbank vs dual battery comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by bobhof View Post
    Thanks for the suggestions. The Easysolar 24/3000 does look pretty close. Are these used in overland setups? I think perhaps I'll rather go for separate components for the dual battery system - even if they are specced a bit lower than the Ecoflow.

    Usually whether using separate components or a Easysolar will work out to more or less the same cost, in fact I remember a while ago, for a very long time, the Easysolar 48/5000 cost exactly the same as the separate components down to the cent.
    The easysolar just makes it a bit more convenient in terms of wiring, but obviously you require the space for it, plus you are going back to if one component fails it's not necessarily so straight forward just to replace that one component.

    I think 800W alternator charging is actually the most important for this test you want to do, then of course a proper battery as well.
    So look for a good battery around 2 kWh which can be charged at 800W and go with 2x Orion smart 30A.
    I'm sure nobody will be mad if you use a smaller inverter like a Multiplus / Phoenix 12/1600, as long as you can drain the battery enough to do the charging tests.
    Before you judge a person, first walk a mile in their shoes.

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  12. #7
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    Default Re: Powerbank vs dual battery comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by bigboy529 View Post
    Usually whether using separate components or a Easysolar will work out to more or less the same cost, in fact I remember a while ago, for a very long time, the Easysolar 48/5000 cost exactly the same as the separate components down to the cent.
    The easysolar just makes it a bit more convenient in terms of wiring, but obviously you require the space for it, plus you are going back to if one component fails it's not necessarily so straight forward just to replace that one component.

    I think 800W alternator charging is actually the most important for this test you want to do, then of course a proper battery as well.
    So look for a good battery around 2 kWh which can be charged at 800W and go with 2x Orion smart 30A.
    I'm sure nobody will be mad if you use a smaller inverter like a Multiplus / Phoenix 12/1600, as long as you can drain the battery enough to do the charging tests.

    Thanks! I will not actually be purchasing and testing the dual battery system (I already have a victron setup in my vehicle and another in my trailer, so I can compare functionality). I just want to provide a rough cost comparison between a powerbank and a dual battery system with similar specs. The bluenova battery below has a recommended charge current of 75A.

    What do you think of my estimated installation cost (R5000) and my estimated cost for extras like wiring (R2500)?

    BlueNova BN13V-154-2k MPS LiFePO4 Battery (3 year warranty) - R 10885
    Victron Smartshunt 500A-50mV Battery Shunt - R 2,173
    2x Victron Orion-Tr Smart 24V-12V 30A (360W) Isolated DC-DC Charger - 2x R 3,953
    Victron Phoenix Smart 2kVA 2kW 12V-24V-48V Inverter - R 9,564
    Victron Blue Smart IP22 12-30 30A 12V Battery Charger - R 2,950
    Victron SmartSolar 100V-30A MPPT Charge Controller - R 2,518
    Some 12V 100A usb adapters ~R500
    Wiring, lugs, fuzes, etc ~R2500
    Installation ~R5000


    TOTAL: R 43,996

    Thanks,
    Rob
    Last edited by bobhof; 2024/05/26 at 10:03 AM. Reason: Found better pricing

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  14. #8
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    Cool Re: Powerbank vs dual battery comparison

    Tow problems I have my my Ecoflow as a dual battery is that it doesnt stop charging when the car is off.
    This should be easily fixed but not bothered enough. I lower the charging limit when I know I will be stop/starting so it cannot drain the battery .

    My 2nd is I cant easy connect my 12V accessories directly like light radios, extra lights. I can make up connectors but then I have to enable in on the Ecoflow each, the DC mode.
    The power draw on these are quite small though and they usually go get used when the car is on.
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    Dont take anything I say as actual advice or fact. I dont.

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  15. #9
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    Default Re: Powerbank vs dual battery comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by PsyPhin View Post
    Tow problems I have my my Ecoflow as a dual battery is that it doesnt stop charging when the car is off.
    This should be easily fixed but not bothered enough. I lower the charging limit when I know I will be stop/starting so it cannot drain the battery .

    My 2nd is I cant easy connect my 12V accessories directly like light radios, extra lights. I can make up connectors but then I have to enable in on the Ecoflow each, the DC mode.
    The power draw on these are quite small though and they usually go get used when the car is on.
    The new Alternator Charger will solve the first problem and enable fast charging. But I expect it will be over R10K.

    Your second point is very true and I have added it to my list of cons. Even just adding USB ports in useful places around the vehicle is much easier with a dual battery system.

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    Default Re: Powerbank vs dual battery comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by bobhof View Post
    Thanks! I will not actually be purchasing and testing the dual battery system (I already have a victron setup in my vehicle and another in my trailer, so I can compare functionality). I just want to provide a rough cost comparison between a powerbank and a dual battery system with similar specs. The bluenova battery below has a recommended charge current of 75A.

    What do you think of my estimated installation cost (R5000) and my estimated cost for extras like wiring (R2500)?

    BlueNova BN13V-154-2k MPS LiFePO4 Battery (3 year warranty) - R 10885
    Victron Smartshunt 500A-50mV Battery Shunt - R 2,173
    2x Victron Orion-Tr Smart 24V-12V 30A (360W) Isolated DC-DC Charger - 2x R 3,953
    Victron Phoenix Smart 2kVA 2kW 12V-24V-48V Inverter - R 9,564
    Victron Blue Smart IP22 12-30 30A 12V Battery Charger - R 2,950
    Victron SmartSolar 100V-30A MPPT Charge Controller - R 2,518
    Some 12V 100A usb adapters ~R500
    Wiring, lugs, fuzes, etc ~R2500
    Installation ~R5000


    TOTAL: R 43,996

    Thanks,
    Rob

    I think the heart of these set ups as regards life and reliability is the battery. My Blue Nova packed up just after 3 years and not much use, one or two 4 week overlanding trips each year and mostly powering only a 42litre Engle fridge.; send it to Jhb and they will "look at it", best they could come up with. I am definitively not buying another Blue Nova.

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  18. #11
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    Default Re: Powerbank vs dual battery comparison

    There has been a few issues or unhappy people with the Blue Nova battery.

    What is a recommended drop in battery that will fit the NL green battery box?
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  19. #12
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    Default Re: Powerbank vs dual battery comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by mudgrubber View Post
    I think the heart of these set ups as regards life and reliability is the battery. My Blue Nova packed up just after 3 years and not much use, one or two 4 week overlanding trips each year and mostly powering only a 42litre Engle fridge.; send it to Jhb and they will "look at it", best they could come up with. I am definitively not buying another Blue Nova.
    Fair enough. I've owned 4 bluenova batteries and had issues with 1, so no great reliability in my experience either.

    Can you suggest another 12V 2kWh battery (or 2x 1kWh)? Preferably with a 5 year warranty. Thanks.

  20. #13
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    Default Re: Powerbank vs dual battery comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by geoff norton View Post
    There has been a few issues or unhappy people with the Blue Nova battery.

    What is a recommended drop in battery that will fit the NL green battery box?

    So far after around 6 months I'm very happy with my Revov 100Ah, I don't use it in a vehicle as a second battery, I use it powering my gate motor and electric fence energizer, it only gets charged by solar, not by mains.

    I also read of a few issues where Blue Nova basically told people they can not service/fix the drop in replacement batteries. I see they only have a 3 year warranty, from what I read somewhere a while ago they don't assemble them here in SA unlike their bigger batteries.

    My dad have a Blue Nova 22Ah going strong for probably 4 years already, he permanently uses it to power his CPAP machine at night and have it connected to a little Benton 3A smart charger.
    Before you judge a person, first walk a mile in their shoes.

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    Default Re: Powerbank vs dual battery comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by bobhof View Post
    Fair enough. I've owned 4 bluenova batteries and had issues with 1, so no great reliability in my experience either.

    Can you suggest another 12V 2kWh battery (or 2x 1kWh)? Preferably with a 5 year warranty. Thanks.

    Maybe look at the Revov 200Ah , it is second life so not a like for like comparison to the Blue Nova and I can't remember what warranty it has, but I know many use them, they are quite popular.
    Before you judge a person, first walk a mile in their shoes.

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    Default Re: Powerbank vs dual battery comparison

    You can have a look at what we have to offer.
    First life battery with a phenomenal warranty

    https://www.4x4community.co.za/forum...ttery-Solution

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  25. #16
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    Default Re: Powerbank vs dual battery comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by Benson View Post
    You can have a look at what we have to offer.
    First life battery with a phenomenal warranty

    https://www.4x4community.co.za/forum...ttery-Solution
    Thanks Benson. What is the warranty and how fast can they charge?

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    Default Re: Powerbank vs dual battery comparison

    From empty @100AH it can recharge in 1hour.
    We offer 3 year warranty, carry in assess and replace.
    From our side we are backing this 100%

    Also if you do not require the blue tooth module the Std S100A is R6050 Incl VAT.

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    Default Re: Powerbank vs dual battery comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by bobhof View Post
    Hi All, Ecoflow will be sending me their new Alternator Charger quite soon (https://us.ecoflow.com/products/800w-alternator-charger). This device will hopefully solve the biggest issue with using a powerbank in an overlanding vehicle - slow DC charging. I plan to test it and do a comparison between the Ecoflow Delta 2 Max with alternator charger, and a traditional dual battery system when I am in Botswana next month.
    Following with interest, as this closely matches the setup I'm aiming for!

    At the point of ordering the alternator charger from USA, but really hoping they release it for SA sale soon...
    ---

    aka Jason

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  32. #20
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    Default Re: Powerbank vs dual battery comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by bobhof View Post
    Hi All, Ecoflow will be sending me their new Alternator Charger quite soon (https://us.ecoflow.com/products/800w-alternator-charger). This device will hopefully solve the biggest issue with using a powerbank in an overlanding vehicle - slow DC charging. I plan to test it and do a comparison between the Ecoflow Delta 2 Max with alternator charger, and a traditional dual battery system when I am in Botswana next month.

    As part of this exercise I need to spec a dual battery system similar to the Ecoflow Delta 2 Max with Alternator Charger:


    1. 2kWh LiFePO 4 battery
    2. 2400W inverter (Surge 4800W)
    3. 2 USB-A ports, 2 100W USB-C ports
    4. 2300W AC charging
    5. 2x 500W solar charging
    6. 800W Alternator charging
    7. Bluetooth monitoring
    8. 5 year warranty


    I reckon I will go with Victron for most of the components in the comparison system since their products are mostly bluetooth enabled and have a 5 year warranty. They are not cheap though. Any more affordable suggestions that can match the specs of the Ecoflow?


    Any suggestions re choice of battery?


    Thanks.
    What vehicle? Remember you you cannot fit a DC charger with amps higher than 50% than that of the alternator. 800W = 67A so your alternator must be at least a 140A one.

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