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  1. #81
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    Default Re: Lending out of Equipment - Would you?

    When I raced, I owned and used an excellent car trailer. It was modified for fast towing. I removed the leaf springs and fitted a solid axle, from an Audi 200 with the inverse of a portal axle. The axle was attached directly to the bed of the trailer. That meant that the centre of the wheel ran higher than the centre of the axle. The trailer ran very low to the ground, the very low centre of gravity gave the loaded trailer an extremely low centre of gravity and very good and stable roadholding when towed, carrying a vehicle.

    The race car was strapped to the trailer, using those strong 50mm wide ratchet tow straps over the wheels only. The trailer was therefore acting in unison with the vehicle's suspension. It was incredibly stable and safe. It also had excellent brakes which I maintained meticulously. It's only downfall was that I had to deflate the tyres (175 R 14 commercial tyres capable of 950kg per tyre at 3.0 bar pressure) to about 0.7 bar pressure when towed empty. The tyres then acted as suspension and shock absorbers.

    It was a pain to inflate the two tyres after loading the car onto the trailer, but the plusses outweighed the single negative.

    A work collogue asked to borrow the trailer. I had known him for 10 years and he was very careful with everything he owned and with work equipment, so after explaining the exact procedure to him, I lent the trailer to him. I did warn him, it is my racing car trailer, not a garden rubbish trailer, if he damaged it, he had to repair it. He needed to tow his dad's vehicle from Edenvale to the West Rand somewhere near Westgate. He collected the trailer (with suitably deflated tyres) from my house near Eastgate on a Friday early evening, to fetch the car. He would return it during the morning, the next day. I again reminded him to inflate the tyres, I actually told him to stop (there was garage/filling station about half a km from the dad's home) and inflate the tyres to 3.0 bar.

    Saturday about lunchtime he brought the trailer back and I immediately noticed a ring both inside and outside sidewalls of each tyre, indicating that he had towed the trailer with the car on it, without inflating the tyres. I told him that he forgot to inflate the tyres and he reluctantly agreed. It then came out that he totally forgot to inflate the tyres and had towed the trailer with the car on it, to his place, and that damage was because of the 25km of towing on severely under inflated tyres

    We both looked at the ring and when pressing on the ring mark with a finger, the area of the ring on the tyre sidewall was noticeably soft compared to the rest of the sidewall. I immediately knew that the tyre was totally wrecked and I could no longer use them for what I used the trailer for, namely to transport my race car fast and safely.

    He became aggressive and said that the tyres were OK, and he would take them to a tyre shop owner friend to inspect. At that stage the tyres were about one year old and probably done less than 2,000km. On Tuesday, the friend phoned me and told me that he inspected the tyres and that they were OK. I told him I would take his word for it, but also that should I be towing my race car (typically at between 110 and 120 kph, and a tyre bursts in the next year or so, I would hold him responsible for the damage to my race car, tow car and trailer. He suddenly changed his mind and said that he would tell Ronnie (the colleague) that he should replace the tyres.

    Needless to say, Ronnie was livid. I also needed the tyres the weekend after the next as we had a race in Welkom. He pleaded poverty, but I stuck to my guns, I need the tyres in less than 8 days, as I needed to fit them at least the Thursday, at latest the Friday before the race. I had accommodation costs (for 3 of us), fuel costs and meals to pay for, I had already paid the race entry fees and a deposit for accommodation, I could not afford to buy new tyres to replace my now damaged nearly new tyres.

    I don't know where he got the money from, but by the Wednesday before the race, he came with me to his tyre shop owner's place and paid for two new tyres. He of course moaned to all an sundry about my uncompromising attitude and how unreasonable I was, but the deed was done, he had paid, I could not let him get away with it. I ran my racing campaign on an extremely tight budget!

    This was between 1995 and 1997. Just this past week I was again reminded by another colleague about how mean I was to Ronnie to force him to buy new tyres. I then told him about the compromised tyre wall integrity and the warnings I had given Ronnie about inflating the tyres towing the trailer with the car on it. He was very skeptical of my explanation, saying: "That is not what Ronnie had told them had happened."

    That single incident made me become very very reluctant to ever lend stuff (of any kind) to people. Once bitten, twice shy!!
    Last edited by mvcoller; 2024/05/27 at 12:41 AM.
    Malcolm van Coller - retired 2013, West Coast from April 2024.
    1. 2008 Nissan Patrol 3.0 TDi GL with front Lokka (Use it mainly for Safari business)
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    Sold: 1988 Nissan Patrol 2.8 with 5 speed conversion
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  3. #82
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    Default Re: Lending out of Equipment - Would you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Imvubu View Post
    I lend my stuff out all the time. Sometimes I even get it back.

    If I don't, or it's buggered, so be it. I'll leave it up to the borrower's conscience.

    My best mate borrowed my chainsaw a little while ago, and it burnt out while he was using it. He replaced it with a brand new one which I certainly didn't expect.

    These things happen, and it wouldn't have bothered me if he hadn't. It could easily have happened while I was using it.
    I don't interact much here but after reading some of the comments/ advices... I was so relieved when i read this one. Yoh guy, whats happened? Since when has the value of material possessions become more important than friendship and family. In at least 50% of the cases if an item breaks on their watch, it'd have broken on your watch. I'm shocked by how protective we've become over mere replaceable items. I mean, over and above anything else, my boat and tackle are by far my most loved material possession, but I'd let others use it whenever they ask, in fact, i sometimes encourage them to come fetch the boat and go have some fun.
    I'm sorry guys, i do not understand whats become of humanity that we've become so overprotective and guarding of things that "tomorrow" will belong to someone else.

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  5. #83
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    Default Re: Lending out of Equipment - Would you?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisRobin View Post
    Let me get my Ďintroductioní out the way with this post as well, since I skipped the introduce yourself step when joining in order to ask advice on a totally unrelated matter.

    I have used this forum as ďguestĒ for many years, having found a lot of very helpful answers to problems via google search that led me to this platform. Those were always vehicle specific, or related to specific faraway destinations etc. My name is Christo Robertson, and I am a CA based in Gordons Bay, but work for a company based in Luxemburg. I love fishing fishing, motorbike trips to the Karoo with mates, and my wife Ilse.

    In the week I have been a member, I notice the actually very active threads on this ďcommunityĒ very seldom deal with 4x4 vehicle related issues or travel/4x4/overlandimg etc questions. Itís more politics, current affairs and mines bigger than yours than anything else.

    I must be very lucky then, as I am part of a group of friends where things are readily borrowed between us, with very little questions asked, and Iím not just talking about tents. When one is in a bit of a pickle, we easily loan out a car even a place to stay, and 9 times out of 10 you get it back cleaner than it was given out, and with a full tank of fuel. The one in ten times something comes back broken, or not at all for what ever reason, thatís an insurance issue, or you write it off as bad luck and move on. I know my my friends and family well. I highly doubt any of them would deliberately go out to ruin something I have borrowed them, so if something goes wrong, so be it. If they choose to replace or repair it out of pocket to clear their conscience, good on them. If not, I deal with it, and it doesnít affect the friendship. If itís a car that was crashed or a holiday home burnt down, thatís what insurance is for. If itís a tent or camp chair or a fishing rod, you take it on the chin and move on. Expecting someone to replace a 10 year old tent because a zip failed while they were using it is absurd. Most likely that zip would have failed the next time you used it anyway. If they choose to replace it with a new one and itís within their means, so be it, if not, same story.

    I am a firm believer in the idea of ďIf you have more than you need, build a longer table, not higher wallsĒ. If anyone is going to abuse that, let it be on their conscience. If my friend needs something from me I donít need at the moment let them have it. I borrow without expectation, and surprisingly that sort of hospitality is rewarded more often than it is abused.

    is this the 4x4 community, or is it the 4x4 me myself and I?

    Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
    This is exactly how my group of 48 fellow boat owner friends and i operate.
    We attach too much importance to what "we" have accumulated instead of being grateful that GOD has granted these to us so lets share.
    I mean we can complain all we like about the attitude of compulsive borrowers, but ask yourself the question. Am i not grateful/ blessed/ fortunate/ privileged..... to rather be in a position to give/ assist than to be in the position of asking/ begging?

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  7. #84
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    Default Re: Lending out of Equipment - Would you?

    Shew, the tone of this thread changed suddenly. Even my two imaginary friends have sent me messages this morning questioning my lack of generosity. Told them to shoosh or I'd up my meds and that would be that...

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  9. #85
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    Default Re: Lending out of Equipment - Would you?

    @mvcoller

    My trailer is part of my bread and butter and I don't have any choice. The Troopie and the trailer have to be in 100% mechanical condition. Else I will be stuck in the middle of nowhere and not due to my doing.

    Granted, lots of material angles here. Do I borrow people things? Yes I do and I usually don't expect them back. When they do come back I am relieved.

    Moral of the story, My Tools are Mine.
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  11. #86
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    Default Re: Lending out of Equipment - Would you?

    Quote Originally Posted by fortuna View Post
    I don't interact much here but after reading some of the comments/ advices... I was so relieved when i read this one. Yoh guy, whats happened? Since when has the value of material possessions become more important than friendship and family. In at least 50% of the cases if an item breaks on their watch, it'd have broken on your watch. I'm shocked by how protective we've become over mere replaceable items. I mean, over and above anything else, my boat and tackle are by far my most loved material possession, but I'd let others use it whenever they ask, in fact, i sometimes encourage them to come fetch the boat and go have some fun.
    I'm sorry guys, i do not understand whats become of humanity that we've become so overprotective and guarding of things that "tomorrow" will belong to someone else.
    While I like the sentiment, sometimes it goes horribly wrong.
    A very good friend was going through some tough times. He asked if he could borrow my bullet casting equipment, the plan being that he was going to cast and sell to augment his income. The deal was that he was going to supply me some bullets in return. Thing is, I have a couple of locally rather rare calibers, for which suitable bullets just aren't really available.
    He supplied one or two batches, and then stopped.

    I now pretty much can't use three of my firearms.
    But more importantly, because he is feeling guilty I have also now lost a good friend...

    But I do still lend stuff out. Perhaps a little more selectively though.
    Last edited by Peter Connan; 2024/05/27 at 08:15 AM.
    Beat-up rat rod of a '96 Nissan Patrol that bears the evidence of many wonderful adventures (and a few stupid indiscretions).

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  13. #87
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    Default Re: Lending out of Equipment - Would you?

    When still in SA and I had a garage bursting at the seams with stuff, I would have had no issue lending any of the stuff out, except my Patrol, or a set of hammers from my grandfather.
    Everything else I had the mind set of if it gets lost or broken I really dont mind.
    It happened once that I leant an old (but trusty) little makro tent that had served me well very well to a friend of my wife's. It came back with a broken pole and no tent pegs. Oh well. I hold no grudge towards the friend.

    But, on the thing of borrowing, I just cannot do it. I hate borrowing things from people. So, if I dont have a tent I cant go camp, or if I dont have a canoe, I cant go paddling. I accept that its a silly viewpoint, but anyway.

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  15. #88
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    Default Re: Lending out of Equipment - Would you?

    A few years ago my sister lent my welding machine for a weekend, a friends husband were going to weld up some stands for her and the friends new business venture.
    They couldn't finish the job over the weekend so planned to continue the next weekend.
    During the week my welder got stolen out of the friends garage, the friend was very sorry, they will replace the machine.
    A few months later the friendship ran its course but no new welder yet.

    I still constantly remind my sister of it and she still promises to buy me a new welder one day, but no new welder yet.
    Needless to say, I don't easily lend, not even to family, on the other hand I also won't easily ask someone to borrow something, I hate it.

    A while ago my cousin borrowed his camping trailer to a friend of his and a girlfriend for a night, my cousin towed, parked and pitched it, so all good. The next morning he was quite impressed to find that the friend packed up the trailer all by himself.
    A month later when my cousin pitched the trailer at home to prep it for a trip, he found a panty folded up with the mattress.
    From that day his trailer has been dubbed, The Panty Wagon. We actually still want to get him a spare wheel cover custom made with the name.
    Just shows, sometimes you get back more than you ever expected when lending out stuff.
    Before you judge a person, first walk a mile in their shoes.

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  17. #89
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    Default Re: Lending out of Equipment - Would you?

    The local church used to borrow my 16x16 for their bazaar each year until they somehow lost most of the pegg/spikes used to anchor the beast. That was the end of it.

  18. #90
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    Default Re: Lending out of Equipment - Would you?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigboy529 View Post
    A few years ago my sister lent my welding machine for a weekend, a friends husband were going to weld up some stands for her and the friends new business venture.
    They couldn't finish the job over the weekend so planned to continue the next weekend.
    During the week my welder got stolen out of the friends garage, the friend was very sorry, they will replace the machine.
    A few months later the friendship ran its course but no new welder yet.

    I still constantly remind my sister of it and she still promises to buy me a new welder one day, but no new welder yet.
    Needless to say, I don't easily lend, not even to family, on the other hand I also won't easily ask someone to borrow something, I hate it.

    Please donít take this as an attack, Iím asking as Iím genuinely interested in understanding the reasoning here as to why you still keep reminding your sister about this.

    Do you feel the friend deliberately had your welder stolen, or that they were irresponsible in not securing it and that led to it being stolen? Are you 100% certain the welder could never have been stolen whilst it was in your possession?

    Ideally first prize would be that your sister or the friend replaced the welder, I would have liked that too if I was in the same position, but you must at some point accept that wonít happen for whatever reason, and then let it go.

    also, if it was stolen from the friends property, did they not have household content insurance? Most policies do include cover for thrid parties property that is stollen from your home during a break in/robery.

  19. #91
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    Default Re: Lending out of Equipment - Would you?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisRobin View Post
    Please donít take this as an attack, Iím asking as Iím genuinely interested in understanding the reasoning here as to why you still keep reminding your sister about this.

    Do you feel the friend deliberately had your welder stolen, or that they were irresponsible in not securing it and that led to it being stolen? Are you 100% certain the welder could never have been stolen whilst it was in your possession?

    Ideally first prize would be that your sister or the friend replaced the welder, I would have liked that too if I was in the same position, but you must at some point accept that wonít happen for whatever reason, and then let it go.

    also, if it was stolen from the friends property, did they not have household content insurance? Most policies do include cover for thrid parties property that is stollen from your home during a break in/robery.

    Continuing to remind my sister about it is all TIC and she knows it very well, but it's still fun to do from time to time.

    If it was me and someone elses welder I borrowed was stolen out of my garage, I would have felt very bad and replaced it, even more so if I had insurance.
    They had household insurance, but rather than replacing my welder, they apparently poored all the insurance money in to their replacement bicycles.

    BTW this also wasn't the reason why my sister and the friends friendship whent bad, it was because of other things.
    Before you judge a person, first walk a mile in their shoes.

  20. #92
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    Default Re: Lending out of Equipment - Would you?

    I've lent stuff to friends and family in the past with mixed experience.
    Some stuff gets lost or buggered, and those people know, and unfortunately are the type that just don't care - school fees for me.
    On the other hand, some stuff has been borrowed, and upon return I get informed by the borrower, they noticed minor damage or defect (not through their use), which they repair or replace at their expense (before I'm even made aware) - so not all bad out there.
    My mindset is, if I loan something out, it's gone for good (not out loud, just in my mind), so it's positive when it's returned, and not a train-smash if not.
    The exception for me is money. If loaned out, say goodbye to the money and the friendship - it's a strange phenomenon.

    Nowadays, my standard practice is, "sure, you can borrow it, but we will set it up, clean it and pack it TOGETHER, before use, and when it's returned. That way we both accept the condition in which it is sent out, as well as returned. Any objection to this ends the conversation.

  21. #93
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    Default Re: Lending out of Equipment - Would you?

    I prefer not to lend out the tools or equipment that I earn my living from, and I will not ask to borrow tools that are work related. If I cannot buy it outright, then I will hire what is needed.

    But.... I do lend out other stuff, or give it away.
    Youngsters in our neighbourhood were looking to borrow a tent for their first camping trip to Splashy Fen music festival. I gave them my old 3 sleeper tent, and they had an absolutely wonderful time.

    Unfortunately my experience is that when lending stuff out, it is not taken care of as I would look after it, and most times I have to actually phone the borrower and go fetch my property myself, and that is annoying.
    I met some crazy people.... They made me their leader.



  22. #94
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    Default Re: Lending out of Equipment - Would you?

    Only tent but when they return they pitch it quickly to check if all is at par

  23. #95
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    Default Re: Lending out of Equipment - Would you?

    I do see lending of stuff and lending of stuff you earn your living from as two distinct categories. I don't think anyone should lend things they earn their living from. If you own it by definition it's necessary to the job, otherwise your company would have disposed of it. So that is a big no no. Anyone even asking is way out of line in my view. That kind of disregard for the person they are asking of should not be rewarded.

    Lending out occasional use items is a completely different category. They are not essential to anyone's life and they don't return it might bruise relationships, but it doesn't harm anyone's ability to earn an income. This thread is in the camping equipment section, so I assume the discussion is around camping equipment.

    I still maintain I lend based on my emotional attachment and the ease of replacing an item. Don't even think about touching my favourite pair of braai tongs, never mind try to borrow them. But the ridiculous tent... meh. Take your chances. You will only try and squeeze it back in it's frustrating little thimble of a bag once and it will cure you for life.
    Aristotle wrote; ''Excellence is never an accident. It is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, and intelligent execution. It represents the wise choice of many alternatives. Choice, not chance, determines your destiny''

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  25. #96
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    Default Re: Lending out of Equipment - Would you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Emmie L View Post
    I do see lending of stuff and lending of stuff you earn your living from as two distinct categories. I don't think anyone should lend things they earn their living from. If you own it by definition it's necessary to the job, otherwise your company would have disposed of it. So that is a big no no. Anyone even asking is way out of line in my view. That kind of disregard for the person they are asking of should not be rewarded.

    Lending out occasional use items is a completely different category. They are not essential to anyone's life and they don't return it might bruise relationships, but it doesn't harm anyone's ability to earn an income. This thread is in the camping equipment section, so I assume the discussion is around camping equipment.

    I still maintain I lend based on my emotional attachment and the ease of replacing an item. Don't even think about touching my favourite pair of braai tongs, never mind try to borrow them. But the ridiculous tent... meh. Take your chances. You will only try and squeeze it back in it's frustrating little thimble of a bag once and it will cure you for life.
    I could not have said it better.
    I would like to add my little bit to post #82 after pondering on it for most of the day. Yes, I do value my stuff higher than family or friends. Often the friendship is gone when stuff is ruined or gone. Even the trust in a family.
    Current - 2009 Mazda BT50 3.0CRDi 4x4 d/c
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  26. #97
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    Default Re: Lending out of Equipment - Would you?

    So Mike is of the opinion that I should borrow a Jimny for a 2 hour highway trip if I'm considering buying one. Now this is the true test of lending out of equipment. Would you lend out a Jimney for this?
    Aristotle wrote; ''Excellence is never an accident. It is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, and intelligent execution. It represents the wise choice of many alternatives. Choice, not chance, determines your destiny''

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  28. #98
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    Default Re: Lending out of Equipment - Would you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Emmie L View Post
    So Mike is of the opinion that I should borrow a Jimny for a 2 hour highway trip if I'm considering buying one. Now this is the true test of lending out of equipment. Would you lend out a Jimney for this?
    I'm sitting on the fence with some of my equipment, especially some tools, which I would be loathe to lend out. That also goes with some camping equipment, like a RTT. But have no problem with table or chairs. But, I have lent the Jimny out to a work colleague and family, and you are welcome to take mine for a drive, should you be visiting down here sometime.
    Mike Lauterbach

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  30. #99
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    Default Re: Lending out of Equipment - Would you?

    "Neither a borrower nor a lender be" - good advice from William Shakespear!

  31. #100
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    Default Re: Lending out of Equipment - Would you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Emmie L View Post
    So Mike is of the opinion that I should borrow a Jimny for a 2 hour highway trip if I'm considering buying one. Now this is the true test of lending out of equipment. Would you lend out a Jimney for this?
    I would gladly let you take me and my car for a two-hour drive. Not sure I would do it without me being in the car. Would have to know you a lot better.
    But it ain't a Jimny.
    Beat-up rat rod of a '96 Nissan Patrol that bears the evidence of many wonderful adventures (and a few stupid indiscretions).

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