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  1. #41
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    Default Re: Tourist killed Kafue National Park

    Quote Originally Posted by bigboy529 View Post
    IMHO over population, too many bulls and not enough space to really have a territory where other bulls don't interfere, especially come mating time.
    You would also turn in to a grumpy person if you had to compete with hundreds of other guys each and every time you want to take a lady out on a date. I'm sure more / bigger / stronger competition literally around every second bush gets very old, very quickly.
    Just like the Free State.

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Tourist killed Kafue National Park

    If you look at the video, there was no road/track. He was 'free' driving into the bush off a given game track and that is the problem. He stopped because there were trees in front of him and no time to reverse. Had he been on the game road he could have put his foot down. Wilderness is a reputable company - but they need to stop going off-road to get closer to the wildlife for tourists. Now the elephant is marked as 'rogue' but they probably surprised him and perhaps he was in musth. It's tragic for the woman and the elephant in my mind. There is not enough respect given to elephants by getting into their space; social media is full of it, showing game vehicles going to close and the comments make me cringe, "What a wonderful experience", "How lucky you are," etc. Something happens in a second and this sort of tragedy unfolds.
    Gabon / Botswana

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  4. #43
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    Default Re: Tourist killed Kafue National Park

    I remember going a to a Sabi Sand self catering lodge about 30 years ago with some friends. On a game drive with a driver and a spotter the driver always positioned the vehicle after stopping close to elephants. When we asked him why, he said that he is not allowed to stop closer than 50m from elephants and that he must have an escape route ahead of the vehicle in case he has to drive away when there is a charge. I cannot remember if he had to keep the engine running.
    In the years after that I thought he was overly cautious, especially near Kruger Park. As said in previous posts, Kruger elephants are, or used to be, mainly calm.
    In places such as Gonareshou I am very cautious and park at least 100m away and look for an escape route, We camped in Kafue North at Lufupa in 2004 (no camping there anymore) and at Mapunga Bush Camp north of Lufupa in 2019 to go to the Busanga Plains. I did not know that Kafue North elephants were aggressive and fortunately did not experience any dangerous situations.
    I remember in the early 2000's most of the camping sites in Kafue South closed because of rampant poaching.
    My vote for the "general" aggresiveness in certain parks is poaching. It is often said that elephants have long memories.

  5. #44
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    Default Re: Tourist killed Kafue National Park

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobus P Venter View Post
    As said in previous posts, Kruger elephants are, or used to be, mainly calm.
    Then the elephants in Addo must be on Valium or smoking boom, because, compared to the KNP elephants, they are really calm and laid back.
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  7. #45
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    Default Re: Tourist killed Kafue National Park

    Quote Originally Posted by bigboy529 View Post
    Very sad incident.

    Apparently they knew the elephant and knew of its temperament problems, this I believe since rangers working in parks get to know animals very well after years and years of observation.

    I'm going to be that guy now, in a ideal world, in nature reserves where tourism is key, problem elephants like those should be destroyed long before they develop a reputation of aggression. Unfortunately the only way this is ever going to happen is if all southern African countries leave CITES. Just look at the massive elephant problem in Kruger and Botswana's elephant problem which was in the news again recently.
    Botswana's president hit the nail on the head, if European countries like Germany want to dictate to African countries how their elephants should be managed, then maybe we should send them a few and see how they deal with them.
    Where in the world does it make sense that countries like Monaco, Norway and Germany have a say over how we manage our elephants here in Africa, over 80% of the signatory countries to CITES probably don't even have a elephant in a zoo, never mind in the wild where they definitely don't have any.
    So true. As Europeans, we have visited southern Africa more than 20 times now.
    And we have seen the problems in Chobe that large numbers of elephant can cause.
    But when we discuss this with our friends and relatives, everyone of them says it's cruel to shoot elephants.
    None of them have ever been to Africa, or know about the specific problems but they still have their opinions...

    Regarding the poaching of elephants: a couple of years ago we were staying at Linyanti camp, near the Linyanti river.
    There were hundreds of elephants there and most of them were easy-going.
    One day, however, we drove a particularly winding path between the trees and ran into a elephant family that was not so happy to see us.
    One of the males charged at full speed and we were very lucky to drive away fast enough and escape the angry tusker.
    Later we heard that lots of elephants in that area had recently crossed the river from the Caprivi strip in Namibia where poaching was very common.
    I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

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  9. #46
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    Default Re: Tourist killed Kafue National Park

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobus P Venter View Post
    I remember going a to a Sabi Sand self catering lodge about 30 years ago with some friends. On a game drive with a driver and a spotter the driver always positioned the vehicle after stopping close to elephants. When we asked him why, he said that he is not allowed to stop closer than 50m from elephants and that he must have an escape route ahead of the vehicle in case he has to drive away when there is a charge. I cannot remember if he had to keep the engine running.
    In the years after that I thought he was overly cautious, especially near Kruger Park. As said in previous posts, Kruger elephants are, or used to be, mainly calm.
    In places such as Gonareshou I am very cautious and park at least 100m away and look for an escape route, We camped in Kafue North at Lufupa in 2004 (no camping there anymore) and at Mapunga Bush Camp north of Lufupa in 2019 to go to the Busanga Plains. I did not know that Kafue North elephants were aggressive and fortunately did not experience any dangerous situations.
    I remember in the early 2000's most of the camping sites in Kafue South closed because of rampant poaching.
    My vote for the "general" aggresiveness in certain parks is poaching. It is often said that elephants have long memories.

    That practice actually makes a lot of sense.
    Around 10 years ago at a lodge in Sabi Sands the ranger took us must have been 5 meters from the elephants grazing right next to the road, he switched off and we sat there for probably 30 minutes. I remember my uncle asking him about it later and his reply was something to the effect that it's not the norm at all and that he'll only do it with that specific herd of cows since he knows them very very well, plus depending on their mood he can't even do it every day.
    The next day with a different elephant herd he staid at least 50m away even though he could have gone a lot closer.
    Before you judge a person, first walk a mile in their shoes.

  10. #47
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    Default Re: Tourist killed Kafue National Park

    Quote Originally Posted by ed rouillard View Post
    We were in Kafue some years back and found the elies very very agressive. Research after determined that there were widespread and almost uncontrolled poaching issues present and the ellies were unstable as a result. We had a good few closhish shaves with lone eli running like the one in the video. Run for a long way to get to 4x4s and not giving up. We became extra vigilant.

    Not sure now, but could explain it maybe.
    I agree.

    Akso had the same experience with a young bull chasing at me in Kafue,
    There are hunting concession areas around the park, so they may have experienced that.

    We arrived at the waterhole, sat there for a while taking photos and as soon as I started the [diesel] engine the ellie started getting upset and charged.
    Needless to say I really floored it to get out of there.
    2016 Pajero Sport 2.5

  11. #48
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    Default Re: Tourist killed Kafue National Park

    Quote Originally Posted by 4ePajero View Post
    Then the elephants in Addo must be on Valium or smoking boom, because, compared to the KNP elephants, they are really calm and laid back.
    I am fairly aquinted with Kafue Np, having been there 20 times or more between 2002 and October 2023 and I can say since 2002 the
    elephant there are much more relaxed.

    In 2002 it was quite common to see them running away in single line scared to death when approched in a car, especially along the main tarroad (back in the days more accuratelly named the potholed road)

    Nowaday the individuals you meet along that are quite relaxed, especially some of the larger bulls seen regularlly there or around the Mukambi loops.

    In the nothern section of the park the situation is a bit different and they seems to be more nervous, especially the breeding heards but some of the bulls like those haging around Lufupa where gething more relaxed.

    When last visited in 2023 I saw to large bulls together somewhere between Lufupa and Moshi bridge, one of them was quite relaxed and moved slowly in the open towards my car but the other was more shy and stayed away eying me from behind trees.

    I have to say that I am quite amaized that as soon as an incident like this one occur some people are trying to politize it, arguing for culling or visitor limitation ...!?

    There has been a lot of poaching in Kafue during the 80 and 90 s and there was a recrudescence of it around 2010 but this quind of tragic accident is after all, also in Kafue, a verry verry rare occurence. I am not aware of another turist killed by elephant in the las 20 years or so.

    I saw the video and to me it seems pretty obviouslly that they where driving of road, something I have experienced when on a game drive from Lufupa, both with Wilderness and theyr predecessor Busanga trails.

    Did they came to close? Nothing on the video can confirm that. They where driving pretty fast (especially if offtrack) from the elie when the video start maybee indicating that they previously had been on the recieving end of some agression from him.

    Driving fast fast from an elephant in Mush is going to increase his agressivity and you can see that very clearly in a confrontation between to bulls, one generally attacking only when the other is retreating, the faster the retreat the more the agression.

    Personally I always try to move VERY slowly when confronted with elephant at close range regardless of theyr state of mind.

    Lastly in the rainy season when that happens it is the time when bull elephant are more likelly to be in mush witch could be one of the explanation for this very agressiv behavior.

    Africaparks has taked over the management latelly and there are all ready improvement like better graded roads, etc.
    Last edited by Phili; 2024/04/08 at 05:29 PM.

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  13. #49
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    Default Re: Tourist killed Kafue National Park

    Quote Originally Posted by TinTin2GP View Post
    If you look at the video, there was no road/track. He was 'free' driving into the bush off a given game track and that is the problem. He stopped because there were trees in front of him and no time to reverse. Had he been on the game road he could have put his foot down. Wilderness is a reputable company - but they need to stop going off-road to get closer to the wildlife for tourists. Now the elephant is marked as 'rogue' but they probably surprised him and perhaps he was in musth. It's tragic for the woman and the elephant in my mind. There is not enough respect given to elephants by getting into their space; social media is full of it, showing game vehicles going to close and the comments make me cringe, "What a wonderful experience", "How lucky you are," etc. Something happens in a second and this sort of tragedy unfolds.
    I tend to agree with this, I can't comment on what the road conditions, or lack thereof, were... but all too often tourists (and definitely guides) push the envelope with wild animals, and even if that group gets away with it, the next group may not be so fortunate!

    There are any number of things that may have contributed to this elephant reacting in the way it did... and we can all speculate, but let's never forget that wildlife is wildlife, no matter how "tame" or habituated they are. We must never take this for granted! Don't ever become complacent with, or lose respect for, these things.

    It is, however, a very sad incident indeed, and my condolences go to the victims!

    That elephant needs to be closely monitored and observed, and sadly, destroyed if deemed necessary. The balance of the incident must be thoroughly and professionally investigated in a way that is unbiased to any of the parties involved.

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