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  1. #21
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    Default Re: One of these threads again... - which vehicle?

    That shorty is a good deal
    Or the lwb for 499 as it looks cleaner..Even the towbar is clean and neat whereas the other one seems to have the brad harison plug at the towbar which means it hauled a trailer or caravan often and might have more wear than the other

  2. #22
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    Default Re: One of these threads again... - which vehicle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.G View Post
    That shorty is a good deal
    Or the lwb for 499 as it looks cleaner..Even the towbar is clean and neat whereas the other one seems to have the brad harison plug at the towbar which means it hauled a trailer or caravan often and might have more wear than the other
    Yeah I actually edited the SWB out of my post, I didnt notice the lack of the extra doors I need. Explained the price

    Agreed, I noticed that with the one from CIT as well.. Was definitely a towing vehicle.. makes me hesitate as well. However, the benefit of CIT is they do a LOT of jeeps, might be able to wrangle (lol) a good deal on trade-in or something. Also seems to be in better shape (compare steering wheels). But pictures count very little, photoshop is a thing.
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  3. #23
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    Default Re: One of these threads again... - which vehicle?

    Good luck with your choice..If you end up buying one I will come sort your dash rattle out and visit some family in slummies..Im originally from Berlin

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  5. #24
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    Default Re: One of these threads again... - which vehicle?

    Go test drive the Scorpio-N for around R500k you will probably find a basically new demo.

    The Size is similar to a Pajero Sport/ Fortuner.

    It will have a full warranty and service plan left.
    Louis Adendorff
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  7. #25
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    Default Re: One of these threads again... - which vehicle?

    https://www.cars.co.za/for-sale/used...SAHEgK9TvD_BwE
    This is a good buy for the 4x4 version

  8. #26
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    Default Re: One of these threads again... - which vehicle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.G View Post
    https://www.cars.co.za/for-sale/used...SAHEgK9TvD_BwE
    This is a good buy for the 4x4 version
    I'll be honest, something about the MU-X doesnt speak to me (this model - newer ones are a different story, but out of my price range). It just already looks "old" and utilitarian, but not in that nice classic way. Very subjective viewpoint, I know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooly View Post
    Go test drive the Scorpio-N for around R500k you will probably find a basically new demo.

    The Size is similar to a Pajero Sport/ Fortuner.

    It will have a full warranty and service plan left.
    Yup, this is in my initial post. I actually really really like this vehicle. I am just a bit worried about boot space - even with the 7th row folded down, it's not a lot. My wrangler has more.
    Funnily enough for some reason I'm really liking the Haval H6 as well... left field compared to the others mentioned so far, I know.. and it deviates from my requirements a lot. Ground clearance and boot space are a bit shy of what I want - vehicle is definitely in the smaller SUV segment. BUT I really like everything else it has to offer at this price-point. The Mahindra is a bit more "trusted" I guess - and hence potentially more reliable in the future. I'm speculating here.
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  9. #27
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    Default Re: One of these threads again... - which vehicle?

    I watched this comparisopn between Pajero Sport and Scorpio N...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JY59DYuy2Y0

    It's pretty clear to me here, at least in terms of practicality and safety, that the newer/facelift Pajero Sport is the winner. However, it's the price point that makes a difference. If we compare price, the Scorpio N is competing with the pre-facelift Pajero Sport, which will be roughly 4 years old and have almost 100k km's on the clock... So in this case the Scorpio N clearly takes the cake, being almost brand new, huge amount of warranty remaining, and outclass it completely in terms of features.
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  10. #28
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    Default Re: One of these threads again... - which vehicle?

    Just buy a Grand Cherokee WK2.

    It should not be a difficult decision.
    "K.a.k Wheeler

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  11. #29
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    Default Re: One of these threads again... - which vehicle?

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeHawk View Post
    There was actually a nice example of one near me as well a few weeks ago, but I cant find it now. I think it was a 2013 though with 200k + km's.

    Here's a spanner in the works:
    https://www.cars.co.za/for-sale/used...toria/9278651/
    (joking.. not ready to deal with maintenance costs/reliability issues of these. But reading that other thread made me consider it)
    That SCV6 is a gem... No turbos or crank snaps to worry about. Go test drive it.😈
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  12. #30
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    Default Re: One of these threads again... - which vehicle?

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeHawk View Post
    Yeah I actually edited the SWB out of my post, I didnt notice the lack of the extra doors I need. Explained the price

    Agreed, I noticed that with the one from CIT as well.. Was definitely a towing vehicle.. makes me hesitate as well. However, the benefit of CIT is they do a LOT of jeeps, might be able to wrangle (lol) a good deal on trade-in or something. Also seems to be in better shape (compare steering wheels). But pictures count very little, photoshop is a thing.
    I would not sell or buy a Wrangler (or any other vehicle for that matter) to/from CIT. Sold mine to them 3 years ago and what a crap experience. Never again.

    My 2cents
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  14. #31
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    Default Re: One of these threads again... - which vehicle?

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeHawk View Post
    I'm sure everybody is sick of these threads, they are an argument magnet.. But I like them, they provide useful insight to me. No two end up the same

    Under these exact parameters - what vehicle would you buy/recommend?

    1. Safe
    Not necessarily by means of tech, but enough airbags for all passengers, and good safety rating in terms of crash protection.
    2. Reliable
    Vehicle should be able to last many years (with good maintenance), decent parts availability, with most things being fixable by any decent mechanic
    3. Spacious
    Enough space for a camping family of 4 - be it large SUV or Bakkie. Preferably don't want to tow a trailer. Roof racks if needed, but would prefer to fit everything inside
    4. Daily driver
    Something that is perfectly comfortable for work commute and school runs
    5. Offroader
    Doesn't need to do insane rock-crawling and dune climbing, but something that can get out of tough situations, camping trips, bush driving.. you get the idea.
    6. Comfort
    Something that doesnt shake us about on-road, some nice-to-have features (rear view cameras, etc)
    7. Fuel Efficiency
    Doesn't have to be incredible, but something decent. Better than 15L/100km's
    8. Age
    Depending on vehicle.. but preferably something as new as the budget allows. I'm not really wanting something "old" unless it's a real gem.
    9. Mileage
    The lower the better, obviously. Preferably not more than 120k km's
    10. Brand
    I'm not overly brand biased, but I like vehicles that look the part. I've got neighbours to compete with (jokes)
    11. My wife needs to like it
    Very subjective I know, but there may/will come a time where it will become her daily... especially as a work bakkie may be in my near future. This apparently rules out Jeep Wranglers and anything not that comfortable to be inside of on the road.

    So I realize that the above is pretty much what anybody wants out of any vehicle. Here's the problem though:

    12. Budget
    +/- R450k ... Can maybe stretch to around R490k but the lower the better. I'd have it at R400k if I could, but that makes it impossible to find anything I want.
    I realize that these days this is a very low budget for what I'm looking for. Everything that ticks the boxes that I can find are R500 and up.

    My findings so far:
    My previous Fortuner ticked most of these boxes... but I dont want to go back to a Fortuner. I'd love a Prado, but the budget wont allow unless its a pre-2013, which is a bit too old for me (want to squeeze many years out of my next vehicle). I'm not a huge fan of the previous gen Hilux, but the "newer" ones are also outside of affordability (for one with all the bells and whistles).
    The Disco 4 HSE looks great, but reliability is the concern there. I've always liked German brands, but affordability and maintenance costs may rule them out (except some VW's)
    "New" cars like the Scorpio N look good too - though pushing the budget and maybe a bit small?


    ok, so.. ideas of things to consider?
    Note: I am in no rush - I'll happily drive my JK, kids are a bit young for camping still.
    me too, opens up my horizons to future vehicles and what / what not to consider.

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  16. #32
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    Default Re: One of these threads again... - which vehicle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainier Vermaak View Post
    Just buy a Grand Cherokee WK2.

    It should not be a difficult decision.
    As much as I love my Jeep, I bought it because its a wrangler, and I was/am willing to put up with many inconveniences accordingly. JGC's are really nice, my old man had a few of them, BUT I'm having a serious issue in my town with having no skilled indie mechs around. You're stuck with the Jeep dealer, who is exceptionally expensive, or an indie with little to no Jeep experience. This has been a huge frustration for me already - luckily I know a really good Wrangler guy in PE. IF I decide to move on from my jeep ( Note: I dont want to, but it cant all just be "fun for dad" anymore), It wont be to another Jeep. Yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by JeandreDiedericks View Post
    That SCV6 is a gem... No turbos or crank snaps to worry about. Go test drive it.😈
    I like this guys reviews of older vehicles:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93Cq6_JTW0I

    It would be a hard yes for me if I had the bank for potential issues. Unfortunately after some thought, it's just too risky for me. I think even my wrangler, which is not known as a particularly reliable vehicle either, is still easier on the pocket to repair things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alwyn777 View Post
    I would not sell or buy a Wrangler (or any other vehicle for that matter) to/from CIT. Sold mine to them 3 years ago and what a crap experience. Never again.

    My 2cents
    Noted, thanks!
    Very shocked at resale price for wranglers, especially when you look at purchase cost. A Rubicon like mine can be bought for what I bought it for a year ago still, but resale value to a dealer, WBC, etc, is shockingly low. I presume it's because they dont sell quick, so it will sit on a dealers floor for ages.
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  17. #33
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    Default Re: One of these threads again... - which vehicle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Juddvdb View Post
    My half a cent worth opinion: Isuzu. Either the MUX or D-max (depending if you want the tub usability or not). As far as I am concerned, it's well priced for what it is, ticking many of your boxes.

    I will never recommend (not that my opinion is worth much) a Toyota, purely because of the theft risk (I work for a big insurer and the stats are disgusting to say the least).
    As a total no. of cars stolen or percentage of those models sold?

    Not an antagonistic question, I'm genuinely curious.

    There will obviously be more Hiluxes stolen than Navaras, simply because of sales numbers. It would be interesting to see the % of amount sold vs amount stolen.

    If a 1000 Hiluxes were sold and 100 were stolen, we're looking at 10%

    If 100 Navaras were sold and 50 were stolen, that's 50%

    The overall data would show that more Hiluxes were stolen, but the Navara in this case would be more likely to be stolen.
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    2007 Hilux 3.0 D-4D D/C - 11.9 l/100km over 342,000km
    2001 Hilux 2.7 Raider D/C - 15.1 l/100km over 321,000km

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  19. #34
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    Default Re: One of these threads again... - which vehicle?

    Quote Originally Posted by CraigJ View Post
    As a total no. of cars stolen or percentage of those models sold?

    Not an antagonistic question, I'm genuinely curious.

    There will obviously be more Hiluxes stolen than Navaras, simply because of sales numbers. It would be interesting to see the % of amount sold vs amount stolen.

    If a 1000 Hiluxes were sold and 100 were stolen, we're looking at 10%

    If 100 Navaras were sold and 50 were stolen, that's 50%

    The overall data would show that more Hiluxes were stolen, but the Navara in this case would be more likely to be stolen.
    Insurance companies only look at the %
    And there is reason they want certain vehicles with tracking systems and are fine with others going without
    I agree it would be nice if there was some online tracking system that gave average person on the street access to the amounts sold vs the amounts stollen
    Would make life easier

    Might also seriously negatively effect retail value on certain cars
    So the car companies will fight this

    You do get this which shows you which % of car brand is stollen
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...rica-by-brand/

    But then comparing to this
    https://www.marklines.com/en/statist...frica-by-month
    It shows it is somewhat similar to their sales
    But going on this Ford is almost double the % level in stolen cars (6% sold 10.4% stolen)
    Where Toyota only has slightly higher theft than % sold (26.7% sold 31.6% stolen)
    And VW is slightly better (13.8% sold 14.1% stolen)

    Also remember the stolen % is not the % of their cars that is stolen just the % out of all cars stolen
    Last edited by Veneficus; 2024/02/23 at 11:55 AM.
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  20. #35
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    Default Re: One of these threads again... - which vehicle?

    Am I being silly to consider one of these? Not because Prado, but because... they seem a little cheaper compared to other Prado's in this year/spec/mileage range.
    Is that an indication of an issue, or possibly because its the V6 and not the TDI?

    https://www.cars.co.za/for-sale/used...toria/9266028/
    https://www.cars.co.za/for-sale/used...-Town/9273818/

    If I look really close - the first one's steering wheel is in bad shape and maybe has an oil leak? (pool on the floor - but could be from AC?)
    second one seems to have a small looking ding on the front drivers side bumper.

    Both have average looking tyres... second better than first by the looks of it

    Edit:
    The more I look, the weirder it gets. Same dealer ad the first one has a same spec similar km Prado but a year older... for R50k MORE.
    Tell's me they dont like the 2015 above and it has an issue of some sort.
    https://www.cars.co.za/for-sale/used...toria/9247141/
    Last edited by LukeHawk; 2024/02/27 at 09:21 PM.
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  21. #36
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    Default Re: One of these threads again... - which vehicle?

    Quote Originally Posted by CraigJ View Post
    As a total no. of cars stolen or percentage of those models sold?

    Not an antagonistic question, I'm genuinely curious.

    There will obviously be more Hiluxes stolen than Navaras, simply because of sales numbers. It would be interesting to see the % of amount sold vs amount stolen.

    If a 1000 Hiluxes were sold and 100 were stolen, we're looking at 10%

    If 100 Navaras were sold and 50 were stolen, that's 50%

    The overall data would show that more Hiluxes were stolen, but the Navara in this case would be more likely to be stolen.
    You are 100% correct in this fictional scenario....

    Your sample pool of 1,100 vehicles consists of 1,000 Hiluxes and 100 Navaras....that means there is 10 times more monthly insurance premiums being paid by Hilux owners vs Navara owners.

    If Hiluxes are the major contributor to insurers revenue and are stolen at a lower rate than Navaras (in your example).....then why are their premiums higher per vehicle on average and chances of 1-2 required tracker units more likely?

    Either the real data points to proportionally more chance of theft of a Hilux or insurers are taking Toyota owners for a ride. The way I see it.


    On topic: get an Isuzu
    Last edited by PJ SA; 2024/02/27 at 09:45 PM.

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  23. #37
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    Default Re: One of these threads again... - which vehicle?

    Ok thanks guys, back to the topic at hand:

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeHawk View Post
    Am I being silly to consider one of these? Not because Prado, but because... they seem a little cheaper compared to other Prado's in this year/spec/mileage range.
    Is that an indication of an issue, or possibly because its the V6 and not the TDI?

    https://www.cars.co.za/for-sale/used...toria/9266028/
    https://www.cars.co.za/for-sale/used...-Town/9273818/

    If I look really close - the first one's steering wheel is in bad shape and maybe has an oil leak? (pool on the floor - but could be from AC?)
    second one seems to have a small looking ding on the front drivers side bumper.

    Both have average looking tyres... second better than first by the looks of it

    Edit:
    The more I look, the weirder it gets. Same dealer ad the first one has a same spec similar km Prado but a year older... for R50k MORE.
    Tell's me they dont like the 2015 above and it has an issue of some sort.
    https://www.cars.co.za/for-sale/used...toria/9247141/
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  24. #38
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    Default Re: One of these threads again... - which vehicle?

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeHawk View Post
    I'll be honest, something about the MU-X doesnt speak to me (this model - newer ones are a different story, but out of my price range). It just already looks "old" and utilitarian, but not in that nice classic way. Very subjective viewpoint, I know.



    Yup, this is in my initial post. I actually really really like this vehicle. I am just a bit worried about boot space - even with the 7th row folded down, it's not a lot. My wrangler has more.
    Funnily enough for some reason I'm really liking the Haval H6 as well... left field compared to the others mentioned so far, I know.. and it deviates from my requirements a lot. Ground clearance and boot space are a bit shy of what I want - vehicle is definitely in the smaller SUV segment. BUT I really like everything else it has to offer at this price-point. The Mahindra is a bit more "trusted" I guess - and hence potentially more reliable in the future. I'm speculating here.
    I have owned Fortuners and an Everest. With the 3rd row folded down none of these vehicles have sufficient boot space to pack a families stuff for a weekend trip if you are going to fill all the seats, you will need to tow a trailer. With the 3rd row folded away the Ford had the most space, because the seats fold flat into the floor, The Fortuner's seats folds sideways up and still takes a bit of packing space away, the Scorpio's 3rd row folds forward and also takes up space but, with the 3rd row folded forward it leaves enough space for daily use for 99% of the time, and if more space is needed the 3rd row can be removed in 3 minutes. With Fortuners I owned I also had to remove the 3rd row from time to time. So I would call a tie between the Scorpio-N and Fortuner.
    Louis Adendorff
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    Default Re: One of these threads again... - which vehicle?

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeHawk View Post
    Am I being silly to consider one of these? Not because Prado, but because... they seem a little cheaper compared to other Prado's in this year/spec/mileage range.
    Is that an indication of an issue, or possibly because its the V6 and not the TDI?

    https://www.cars.co.za/for-sale/used...toria/9266028/
    https://www.cars.co.za/for-sale/used...-Town/9273818/

    If I look really close - the first one's steering wheel is in bad shape and maybe has an oil leak? (pool on the floor - but could be from AC?)
    second one seems to have a small looking ding on the front drivers side bumper.

    Both have average looking tyres... second better than first by the looks of it

    Edit:
    The more I look, the weirder it gets. Same dealer ad the first one has a same spec similar km Prado but a year older... for R50k MORE.
    Tell's me they dont like the 2015 above and it has an issue of some sort.
    https://www.cars.co.za/for-sale/used...toria/9247141/
    I think you are overthinking the age related pricing. Exclusive Auto's vehicle pricing on older vehicles moves around more on condition of said vehicle more than age. To add, their pricing is generally on the higher end of the scale.
    Mike

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    Default Re: One of these threads again... - which vehicle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooly View Post
    I have owned Fortuners and an Everest. With the 3rd row folded down none of these vehicles have sufficient boot space to pack a families stuff for a weekend trip if you are going to fill all the seats, you will need to tow a trailer. With the 3rd row folded away the Ford had the most space, because the seats fold flat into the floor, The Fortuner's seats folds sideways up and still takes a bit of packing space away, the Scorpio's 3rd row folds forward and also takes up space but, with the 3rd row folded forward it leaves enough space for daily use for 99% of the time, and if more space is needed the 3rd row can be removed in 3 minutes. With Fortuners I owned I also had to remove the 3rd row from time to time. So I would call a tie between the Scorpio-N and Fortuner.
    I removed the 3rd row seats in the Fortuner as well. I'd rather have the space than the seats in most cases.
    According to the internet, the Fortuner has 716L space with seats folded, even more with them removed. The Scorpio N has 756L with seats folded. So yeah I guess it's roughly the same/better. Interesting, as it really looks like a lot less in images/videos.

    Quote Originally Posted by AfricainHD View Post
    I think you are overthinking the age related pricing. Exclusive Auto's vehicle pricing on older vehicles moves around more on condition of said vehicle more than age. To add, their pricing is generally on the higher end of the scale.
    This tells me then that the condition is maybe not so lekka of the one I posted. I'll enquire about it anyway, but I'm nowhere close enough to go view it

    Funnily enough, my dad who is a die-hard Toyota fan, who has been saying I should go for a Prado for YEARS and very much dislikes my Jeep, is changing his tune on a Prado for me after driving his friends Haval H6 (different category completely, I know).
    9-10 year old Prado with almost 200k km's on the clock vs an almost new, modern, safe, fuel efficient, full warranty and service plan vehicle (Haval, Scorpio N, etc) at roughly the same price, with a capable (Scorpio N) or and an ok-enough (Haval) 4x4 system for basic overlanding?
    On paper its a no-brainer. Reliability matters a bit less in the first few years when you have full warranty coverage.
    I dont see the Haval being a necessarily good camping vehicle, but the Scorpio N yes.

    Heart says Prado or equivalent well-known brand, brain says one of these newer guys, even if I'd have to tow a small trailer at times.
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