Terios Shudder/Vibration

[TeriTheTerrible]

We have an '09 Terios 4x4 which we have owned and loved for several years now.
It has been rock-solid and given us almost no hassles at all - until recently. But we don't believe it has anything to do with the vehicle, but rather with poor workmanship or technical ineptitude.

Here's the story:
After taking it for a service, my wife noticed heavy vibration coming from the front left wheel so we returned it to the workshop.
The technician noted worn wheel bearings and replaced them.
After replacing the wheel bearings, technician noted there was still a "slight vibration" at just over 110km/h.
Fast forward a bit and we were told the vehicle is ready collect - with a hefty invoice.
When queried, the workshop had to send the vehicle for "prop shaft repairs".
We spoke with the technician, who told us that they noticed the prop shaft boot had perished and cracked and, as a result of the grease escaping, there was play on the universal joint which had to be replaced.
They sent the vehicle off to a prop shaft specialist who cut off the OEM universal joint and replaced it with a generic one (without customer consent ).
After driving the vehicle, we noted a shudder/vibration from 80km/h upwards, but only when power is coming through the drivetrain ie: shudder is present at 110km/h but disappears when you lift off the accelerator. This tells me it has nothing to do with wheels/shocks but rather with the drivetrain.
We returned the vehicle to the workshop who, in turn, returned it to the prop shaft specialist who re-checked their work and found no fault. However, the issue persists.

The technician suspects an issue with the gearbox but won't know unless the gearbox is stripped and inspected - at our expense.
This issue was not observed after the wheel bearings were replaced when there was "slight vibration over 110km/h" - before the prop shaft modifications.
I'm a software developer with a basic knowledge of vehicles, but my gut tells me it has very little to do with the gearbox and more to do with the (unsolicited) prop shaft modifications.

Any experts out there willing to comment?

[Schambies]

We have an '09 Terios 4x4 which we have owned and loved for several years now.
It has been rock-solid and given us almost no hassles at all - until recently. But we don't believe it has anything to do with the vehicle, but rather with poor workmanship or technical ineptitude.

Here's the story:
After taking it for a service, my wife noticed heavy vibration coming from the front left wheel so we returned it to the workshop.
The technician noted worn wheel bearings and replaced them.
After replacing the wheel bearings, technician noted there was still a "slight vibration" at just over 110km/h.
Fast forward a bit and we were told the vehicle is ready collect - with a hefty invoice.
When queried, the workshop had to send the vehicle for "prop shaft repairs".
We spoke with the technician, who told us that they noticed the prop shaft boot had perished and cracked and, as a result of the grease escaping, there was play on the universal joint which had to be replaced.
They sent the vehicle off to a prop shaft specialist who cut off the OEM universal joint and replaced it with a generic one (without customer consent ).
After driving the vehicle, we noted a shudder/vibration from 80km/h upwards, but only when power is coming through the drivetrain ie: shudder is present at 110km/h but disappears when you lift off the accelerator. This tells me it has nothing to do with wheels/shocks but rather with the drivetrain.
We returned the vehicle to the workshop who, in turn, returned it to the prop shaft specialist who re-checked their work and found no fault. However, the issue persists.

The technician suspects an issue with the gearbox but won't know unless the gearbox is stripped and inspected - at our expense.
This issue was not observed after the wheel bearings were replaced when there was "slight vibration over 110km/h" - before the prop shaft modifications.
I'm a software developer with a basic knowledge of vehicles, but my gut tells me it has very little to do with the gearbox and more to do with the (unsolicited) prop shaft modifications.

Any experts out there willing to comment?

I suspect you might be right, but I would also rule out tyre balancing and engine mounts. As far as I understand the propshaft would be spinning whether you are depressing the accelerator or not, as it would be driven through the diff; or in case of the front shaft through the gearbox directly. So at speed, with or without accelerator input, the driveshaft would be affected. That applies to tyre balancing as well. Check whether engine RPM while immobile causes similar vibrations as well.

If that is ruled out then take it to another propshaft specialist and have it balanced again. It could just be that.

[TeriTheTerrible]

I suspect you might be right, but I would also rule out tyre balancing and engine mounts. As far as I understand the propshaft would be spinning whether you are depressing the accelerator or not, as it would be driven through the diff; or in case of the front shaft through the gearbox directly. So at speed, with or without accelerator input, the driveshaft would be affected. That applies to tyre balancing as well. Check whether engine RPM while immobile causes similar vibrations as well.

If that is ruled out then take it to another propshaft specialist and have it balanced again. It could just be that.

Hey Schambies - thanks for the reply!

I did not test engine RPM while immobile, but did test while travelling at approx 110km/h by taking the vehicle out of gear and taking the engine up to through the normal rev range. No vibration noted during this test.
The vibration is definitely more pronounced under engine load, so this makes me (even more) suspicious of drivetrain.

[Commander]

I don't know the Terrios specifically, but what I suspect could be an issue is if the propshaft carrier bearing is unwell, the propshaft does spin as long as the wheels are spinning, but it behaves differently under load than when coasting. I don't know the Terrios's layout or components, so it could be something else, but I doubt it would be gearbox. It is also strange that all this started out of the blue... It may be worth while removing the propshaft and taking the car for a drive to see if the variation stays. Perhaps someone that knows the drivetrain a bit better can comment?

[TeriTheTerrible]

I don't know the Terrios specifically, but what I suspect could be an issue is if the propshaft carrier bearing is unwell, the propshaft does spin as long as the wheels are spinning, but it behaves differently under load than when coasting. I don't know the Terrios's layout or components, so it could be something else, but I doubt it would be gearbox. It is also strange that all this started out of the blue... It may be worth while removing the propshaft and taking the car for a drive to see if the variation stays. Perhaps someone that knows the drivetrain a bit better can comment?

Thanks, Commander! After doing a bit of research, it seems a bad carrier/centre bearing does fit the "vibration under acceleration" symptom.

[Commander]

Thanks, Commander! After doing a bit of research, it seems a bad carrier/centre bearing does fit the "vibration under acceleration" symptom.

Have a look on the Toaureg groups, it is a common problem on them and there is a cheap and easy DIY "bush fix" for it using cable ties and coolant hose, this may also work on the Terrios. Usually it is the rubber "bushing" that fails and not the bearing it self. Most people who try to replace the carrier bearing have balance issues afterward, so this is a good way of fixing it for not a lot of money and with less risk. The fix lasts years, so don't be worried that it is only a short term solution. DUe to the difficulty in balancing, changing the bearing only often leads to having to replace the whole prop shaft which can be pricey.

[TeriTheTerrible]

Update:

Our Terios has been taken to yet another propshaft specialist. They confirmed the (modified) propshaft is fitted correctly and is balanced, but the vibration/shudder over 80km/h issue persists.

The vehicle has been moved to another (RMI approved) workshop. I have read about u-joint phasing on these forums, seems to align (pun intended) with the vibration/shudder that we experience.
https://www.beldenuniversal.com/know...-joint-phasing

[TeriTheTerrible]

Update:
It's been well over 8 months that we have not had our little Terios

The vehicle has been in and out of propshaft centres but the issue persists.
The shudder/vibration seems to start from around 60km/h now (previously only noticed from around 80km/h).

[boreddesigns]

The prop shaft on the terios is a cv type. Sounds like it's just been replaced with a normal universal. I would try and find a secondhand original cv prop in good condition, fit it and see if the vibration remains. Other option is to try and find a cv prop from another vehicle, cut it out and weld it into the terios prop shaft. I can't remember, but I think bmw and audi used these cv type joints on some of there models.

[TeriTheTerrible]

The prop shaft on the terios is a cv type. Sounds like it's just been replaced with a normal universal. I would try and find a secondhand original cv prop in good condition, fit it and see if the vibration remains. Other option is to try and find a cv prop from another vehicle, cut it out and weld it into the terios prop shaft. I can't remember, but I think bmw and audi used these cv type joints on some of there models.

Thanks, what you are suggesting makes a lot of sense. Well, to my little peanut it does.
Our troubles seem to have started after the propshaft centre lopped off the joint and replaced it with a generic universal.

Now to find a spare...

[TeriTheTerrible]

The prop shaft on the terios is a cv type. Sounds like it's just been replaced with a normal universal. I would try and find a secondhand original cv prop in good condition, fit it and see if the vibration remains. Other option is to try and find a cv prop from another vehicle, cut it out and weld it into the terios prop shaft. I can't remember, but I think bmw and audi used these cv type joints on some of there models.

Sure enough, after many months, we finally found an identical Terios that we could compare with. Lo and behold, it was a CV-type joint that was cut off and replaced with a U-joint. Who does that?!

Still battling to find a spare though. Anyone know if there is a Toyota part that would work?

[TeriTheTerrible]

Update: After identifying that it was the front propshaft that had been modified, we set about trying to find a replacement part. Needless to say, it was like looking for hen's teeth! We tried a few used parts but they had the same issue - a torn/perished boot on the CV side, and play on the joint. The cheapest one we could find locally was R10k - more than 10% of the value of the vehicle for one part!

Out of sheer frustration, we ordered one from aliexpress.com (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005217172874.html). It arrived at our door in under 2 weeks and cost around R3500 - incl shipping and customs taxes. It would have arrived sooner if the customs officer got our email address right the first time.

The new part has been fitted and the car is now much smoother - with only the slightest shuddering at around 110 - 120kmh, which I suspect this is due to the carrier bearing which has a lot of play on it (probably caused by driving the vehicle with the modified shaft).

Next step: replace the centre bearing/carrier bearing...