Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 22
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    JHB
    Age
    51
    Posts
    143
    Thanked: 6

    Default 12V Coil Relay Continuous Clicking

    I seem to have an issue with this

    This setup works correctly (see attached diagram) in that

    1) The electronic controller supplies 12V at the relay cradle if above under voltage setting, and
    2) on under voltage state, I get 0V at the relay cradle, and
    3) The electronic controller resets when above over voltage setting to supply 12V at the relay cradle

    PROBLEM

    As soon as I add 12V coil relay continuous clicking .....WHY, why, why?

    Further Clarification

    If the electronic controller is above the under voltage setting the 12V relay does latch, but when the state of the electronic controller changes to undervoltage I get the continuous clicking
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by alnesbitt; 2022/06/23 at 09:31 AM. Reason: Further Clarification

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Malmesbury
    Age
    46
    Posts
    452
    Thanked: 63

    Default Re: 12V Coil Relay Continuous Clicking

    Add a 12v bulb or similar to the relay and see if it is still doing that.

    Might be that the controller is load sensitive and switches itself off if the current draw on the load side is not enough to prevent unnecessary drain from the battery.
    Riaan
    Mahindra S10 DC Pikup
    GWM Steed DC 2.8 TCi - Dastek(Sold)

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Cape Town
    Age
    71
    Posts
    769
    Thanked: 141

    Default Re: 12V Coil Relay Continuous Clicking

    Nice drawing!
    Do you have a multi meter which you can use to measure the current that energises the relay coil?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Ballito
    Age
    42
    Posts
    931
    Thanked: 875

    Default Re: 12V Coil Relay Continuous Clicking

    A continuous clicking relay is often a result of the relay drawing more current than the supply can source.

    Similar to a clicking starter motor. In the case of a starter motor, the solenoid pulls some current and energizes the motor. The motor starts to pull current and the battery can't keep up so the solenoid releases. Now the motor is turned off, but there's enough current for the solenoid and the process starts again.

    So, check how much current your controller can source and how much current your relay draws.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Centurion
    Age
    65
    Posts
    3,569
    Thanked: 1645

    Default Re: 12V Coil Relay Continuous Clicking

    Current drawn by the relay could be 50mA so the source battery (3X100Ah) should be able to provide it easily. Clicking relay could also be because the controller output circuit does not switch on over 8V.

    I take it that there is no load on the relay that can pull the battery voltage down to cause the lower voltage?
    Last edited by ekkekan; 2022/06/23 at 11:50 AM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Hillcrest
    Age
    65
    Posts
    21,408
    Thanked: 13387

    Default Re: 12V Coil Relay Continuous Clicking

    The relay is doing slow PWM regulation. Very common.

    EDIT - Just saw that it is not a regulator but a low cut-out.
    Last edited by Fluffy; 2022/06/23 at 01:17 PM.
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD - PROFFESIONAL DUMBASS
    3 Land Rover V8's
    NA - TwinTurbo - SuperCharged
    A V6 and an inline 4

    If you fly or drive to an anti-Fracking meeting, you have no business being there and you wont get my ear......

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Ellisras
    Age
    59
    Posts
    1,720
    Thanked: 1731

    Default Re: 12V Coil Relay Continuous Clicking

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    The relay is doing slow PWM regulation. Very common.
    The word "common" is the clue in Fluffy's cripto
    Donít blame yourself over past mistakes. Itís like driving down the N1 while looking in the rear view mirror only.

    2000 Patrol GU 4.2D(onkey) "old-timer" chugging along towards 900 000 km.
    2014 Patrol GU 3.0CRD "teenager" in puberty - 138 000 km
    2007 Echo3 Trailer "the nest" with Braked Axle fitted >60 000 km
    2012 NP300 YD2.5 D/C 2x4 High Rider "platkar" - 131 000 km

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    JHB
    Age
    51
    Posts
    143
    Thanked: 6

    Default Re: 12V Coil Relay Continuous Clicking

    Quote Originally Posted by relec View Post
    Add a 12v bulb or similar to the relay and see if it is still doing that.

    Might be that the controller is load sensitive and switches itself off if the current draw on the load side is not enough to prevent unnecessary drain from the battery.

    I added a 12v bulb to the relay cradle supply (coil terminals), and it worked the issue now is that the bulb will be permanently illuminated while the electronic controller is in the "use battery state" (that is voltage is greater than "under voltage load stop") and thus will use the battery...adding to the amps already required to keep the 12v coil in the latched position and drain the battery further.

    The reason for the latched position of the coil is that N/O contacts (12 Volt coil relay) provides a switch to another circuit which must only activate if there is sufficient battery capacity, thus in "Under Voltage load stop" no power from the Electronic controller the coil is de-energised and the other circuit stops

    I think I will have to live with it....unless some other suggestion,

    QUESTION: if I used a contactor instead of a relay or a solid state relay...would it solve the issue of having the 12v bulb permanently on?

    Regards

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    cape town
    Age
    58
    Posts
    366
    Thanked: 220

    Default Re: 12V Coil Relay Continuous Clicking

    what are the "load start" and "load stop" settings?

    sounds as if these are too close to each other ... when the load is removed from a battery, its voltage recovers/increases which then again triggers "load start". once load is reapplied the battery voltage drops to below "load stop".

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Ballito
    Age
    42
    Posts
    931
    Thanked: 875

    Default Re: 12V Coil Relay Continuous Clicking

    Quote Originally Posted by cainslie View Post
    A continuous clicking relay is often a result of the relay drawing more current than the supply can source.

    Similar to a clicking starter motor. In the case of a starter motor, the solenoid pulls some current and energizes the motor. The motor starts to pull current and the battery can't keep up so the solenoid releases. Now the motor is turned off, but there's enough current for the solenoid and the process starts again.

    So, check how much current your controller can source and how much current your relay draws.
    I'm wrong. Looking at pictures of the internals, the load is switched with a relay internally and it's rated to 20A.

    I did find the attached though - looks like it doesn't like the load to be a relay. No idea why.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    JHB
    Age
    51
    Posts
    143
    Thanked: 6

    Default Re: 12V Coil Relay Continuous Clicking

    Quote Originally Posted by RussellF View Post
    what are the "load start" and "load stop" settings?

    sounds as if these are too close to each other ... when the load is removed from a battery, its voltage recovers/increases which then again triggers "load start". once load is reapplied the battery voltage drops to below "load stop".
    I have checked during testing ....and made sure they are way apart 12.8 stop...restart 15.5v

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    JHB
    Age
    51
    Posts
    143
    Thanked: 6

    Default Re: 12V Coil Relay Continuous Clicking

    Quote Originally Posted by cainslie View Post
    I'm wrong. Looking at pictures of the internals, the load is switched with a relay internally and it's rated to 20A.

    I did find the attached though - looks like it doesn't like the load to be a relay. No idea why.
    Dammit.....the "fine print"

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Ballito
    Age
    42
    Posts
    931
    Thanked: 875

    Default Re: 12V Coil Relay Continuous Clicking

    Quote Originally Posted by alnesbitt View Post
    Dammit.....the "fine print"
    What are you powering off that relay?

    The device itself can handle a 20A load (so it says) which is pretty substantial. You may be able to connect the load directly to that output without your relay.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    JHB
    Age
    51
    Posts
    143
    Thanked: 6

    Default Re: 12V Coil Relay Continuous Clicking

    Quote Originally Posted by alnesbitt View Post
    Dammit.....the "fine print"
    Would a contactor or a solid state relay work?

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    JHB
    Age
    51
    Posts
    143
    Thanked: 6

    Default Re: 12V Coil Relay Continuous Clicking

    Quote Originally Posted by cainslie View Post
    What are you powering off that relay?

    The device itself can handle a 20A load (so it says) which is pretty substantial. You may be able to connect the load directly to that output without your relay.
    Not powering anything off the relay...it is just a on/off contact or switch (zero volts over the N/O contacts, using one set of the N/O contacts to break the control circuit of the "other circuit") and the other circuit load would be too high to power through the electronic controller
    Last edited by alnesbitt; 2022/06/23 at 01:15 PM.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    cape town
    Age
    58
    Posts
    366
    Thanked: 220

    Default Re: 12V Coil Relay Continuous Clicking

    Quote Originally Posted by alnesbitt View Post
    Not powering anything off the relay...it is just a on/off contact or switch (zero volts over the N/O contacts, and only using one set and cannot have 12 volts running through the switch) and the other circuit load would be too high to power through the electronic controller
    https://www.robotics.org.za/YX-X0001-1

    would be great to know what triggers the on/off chatter in the controller so that loads in excess of 20A can be switched ... my guess is that it could only be the back EMF from the external relay / solenoid - notwithstanding the fact there is no back EMF when ext relay switches on.

    if possible and you're so inclined, try the following :

    across the ext relay coils add a 100nF or so capacitor

    post back if any change in the ext relay chatter freq

  17. #17
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Hillcrest
    Age
    65
    Posts
    21,408
    Thanked: 13387

    Default Re: 12V Coil Relay Continuous Clicking

    Quote Originally Posted by RussellF View Post
    https://www.robotics.org.za/YX-X0001-1

    would be great to know what triggers the on/off chatter in the controller so that loads in excess of 20A can be switched ... my guess is that it could only be the back EMF from the external relay / solenoid - notwithstanding the fact there is no back EMF when ext relay switches on.

    if possible and you're so inclined, try the following :

    across the ext relay coils add a 100nF or so capacitor

    post back if any change in the ext relay chatter freq
    Lower and upper set points too close too each other.

    As it switches off the current drops and the battery voltage rises switching back on.

    Repeat until dustbin time.
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD - PROFFESIONAL DUMBASS
    3 Land Rover V8's
    NA - TwinTurbo - SuperCharged
    A V6 and an inline 4

    If you fly or drive to an anti-Fracking meeting, you have no business being there and you wont get my ear......

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    JHB
    Age
    51
    Posts
    143
    Thanked: 6

    Default Re: 12V Coil Relay Continuous Clicking

    Quote Originally Posted by RussellF View Post
    https://www.robotics.org.za/YX-X0001-1

    would be great to know what triggers the on/off chatter in the controller so that loads in excess of 20A can be switched ... my guess is that it could only be the back EMF from the external relay / solenoid - notwithstanding the fact there is no back EMF when ext relay switches on.

    if possible and you're so inclined, try the following :

    across the ext relay coils add a 100nF or so capacitor

    post back if any change in the ext relay chatter freq
    I will give it a go "ext relay coils"...more colour please

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    JHB
    Age
    51
    Posts
    143
    Thanked: 6

    Default Re: 12V Coil Relay Continuous Clicking

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    Lower and upper set points too close too each other.

    As it switches off the current drops and the battery voltage rises switching back on.

    Repeat until dustbin time.
    I have checked during testing ....and made sure they are way apart 12.8 stop...restart 15.5v (and it does now work if I attach a 12v bulb to the coil terminals of the cradle)

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Centurion
    Age
    65
    Posts
    3,569
    Thanked: 1645

    Default Re: 12V Coil Relay Continuous Clicking

    Quote Originally Posted by alnesbitt View Post
    I will give it a go "ext relay coils"...more colour please
    It just means the relay is not on the PC board but externally what you call a relay cradle.

    I would say you can even use a larger capacitor like a 10uF as it doesn't matter if the relay stays in a few seconds longer.

    What size 12V bulb did you use?

    I just saw now cainslie showed a picture that the module needs a load larger than the 240ohm of the relay coil.
    Last edited by ekkekan; 2022/06/23 at 01:35 PM.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •