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  1. #1
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    Default Hydrogen vs batteries

    I came across this the other day. https://www.gaussin.com/h2-powered-generator

    It got me wondering, nearly all alternative energy I see is solar and batteries, very little hydrogen.

    Assuming both are connected to a solar system, why are batteries so much more prevalent? Is this a cost issue, Are batteries cheaper? Is it safety, or an ease of installation / maintenance?

    fuel cells have been around for ages, I remember looking at ballard cells over 20 years ago, but they never became popular, the Ballard advertising says they have a lower total cost of ownership then batteries(don't say what kind)
    Ex 2008 UN type Patrol 3.0 diesel, Sadly sold

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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Hydrogen vs batteries

    Hydrogen might become an option for future domestic use.
    Currently probably on the expensive side, and perhaps only to complement a solar installation.

    Not cheap, but something not to be sneezed at.

    Check this Aussie site:
    https://newatlas.com/energy/lavo-hom...ttery-storage/
    Eggie.

    "Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail."
    - Ralph Waldo Emerson.

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  5. #3
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    Default Re: Hydrogen vs batteries

    It's largely got to do with the round trip efficiency, I'm not engineer so the below will be a bit hamfisted.

    Essentially, batteries are around from memory like 95% efficient (happy for someone to correct me here), while hydrogen is significantly less (I can't remember the number unfortunately but its like less than 50%). Coupled with this batteries are currently also cheaper, depending on the storage duration you are looking at.

    One of the benefits of hydrogen though is you can increase storage duration for a lot less than a battery, that is adding a storage tank to a PEM as an example is cheaper than adding another battery to a battery pack.

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  7. #4
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    Default Re: Hydrogen vs batteries

    There are several why Batteries are better for fixed installation.

    Round trip efficiency of modern LFP batteries are greater than 92% compared to less than 50% for hydrogen.

    Complexity, it is rather easy to use, transport and store batteries, LFP do need more care then in transport but not nearly us much care as hydrogen. Hydrogen as need valves, regulators, DC-DC, compressors and whole heap of safety systems, battery just needs a BMS.

    Moving parts, in any hydrogen system there is a lot of moving parts, from regulators to valves, to pumps, compressors. The process of storing energy in Hydrogen is not super simple this means there are by definition a lot more points of failure or items that will need maintenance. Electrode degradation is also a problem here just like in LFP batteries.

    The only real benefit is that energy vs weight for hydrogen is way better. Around 33kwh per kg vs 0.160kwh per kg for LFP but this really isn't a factor in fixed storage as you don't really care about weight if you aren't moving it around.

    So at the end of the day why would use a less efficient, more complex, more likely to fail system with higher maintenance costs when for the same price you could install batteries. Cost may change over time but the other factors won't.


    At large scales hydrogen may work out cheaper as tanks cost less than cells for the same energy so at some point it does become a cost advantage to deal with all the other drawbacks but I don't believe this will ever happen for Household sized systems.

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  9. #5
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    Default Re: Hydrogen vs batteries

    Hydrogen works for fixed route , train lines, N1 and N2 trucks etc , not efficient for random route cars. Storage and transport are the inefficient .

  10. #6
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    Default Re: Hydrogen vs batteries

    Quote Originally Posted by FourStroke View Post
    Hydrogen works for fixed route , train lines, N1 and N2 trucks etc , not efficient for random route cars. Storage and transport are the inefficient .
    Yes. In simple terms, Hydrogen does not liquefy when you compress it. The gas that you cook with, liquefies at VERY low pressures, so you can store the gas as a liquid making storage very efficient. To get the same amount of hydrogen into a cylinder, you would need a cylinder that is much much larger, AND you would have to compress it to something like 500bar.


    The second problem with hydrogen is the cost of producing it. BMW did a lot of work on this 30 to 40 years ago. They simply ran normal internal combustion engines on Hydrogen instead of fossil fuels. It works brilliantly EXCEPT, it is expensive (to "make" the hydrogen) and it is both cumbersome AND costly to store the hydrogen.


    As mentioned above, hydrogen is usually created from Methane (CH4), which means you are using fossil fuels, alternatively through electrolysis, you can make hydrogen from water, but now you need a lot of electricity (which is still 90% produced with fossil fuels).


    C
    If you ain't livin on the edge, you're taking up too much space!

  11. #7
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    Default Re: Hydrogen vs batteries

    Replace Big Oil with Big Hydrogen?
    2000 Mitsubishi Pajero SWB 3.0 V6 24v (Factory Service Manuals, Parts Catalogs)
    1978 Land Rover Series III 109 PUP (Workshop Manuals)

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