Issues with recently bought Freelander II

[JMP]

Please follow up on Inox’s advice and read the thread(s) on the Freelander2’s Crankshaft Positioning Sensor (CPS). My Freelander’s (partly similar-sounding) problem was solved by replacing the CPS.
Sterkte!

[LIMA359]

Hi everyone

I bought a used Freelander II 2.2 SD4 HSE (2013 model) from a reputable dealer about 2 months ago. The car had about 150k on the clock, it has a full service history and I asked them to have the cambelt changed as part of the deal. I also got a two year mechanical warranty. All in all, a good buy. The only thing that bugged me a bit, was that the torque converter had to be reconditioned in December 2020. I spoke to the mechanic who completed the job, trying to figure out if it's a good thing that it was done or if it points to problems with the car. He assured me that it's normal for Freelanders and that I should be good to go indefinitely.

After a few days I started noticing some minor issues. I ignored it at first and told myself that a 7-8 year old car won't be perfect, but the issues became more severe as weeks passed. I contacted the dealer about this while still within the 30 day dealership/ sale warranty.

Here's a list of issues - just note that I have very little mechanical knowledge, so I don't always know how to properly describe it:

• Slight sudden dips/ rises in revs and engine noise (a quick up/ down if that makes sense) while idling and driving. This becomes quite scary at high speeds. It's definitely on the increase. It seems to go away temporarily when the car is turned off and on again.
• A slip in first gear at times - pulling away just isn't smooth at all and actually quite jerky at times. It's definitely not a gear shift, since it happens in sport mode (manual shifting) as well when remaining in first gear. It also happens in reverse, especially on inclines.
• Judder at revs of between 1500 and 2000. I thought I was imaging this at first and that it could be a result of the 19" rims and slight bumpy roads, but it's defintely there. It's not consistent, but it's also on the increase.
• This could be nothing, but there's a very clear (but soft) sound (you can feel it throught the pedals as well) of something "engaging", soon after pulling away for the first time.
• A very load and sharp vibration (it sounds like steel on steel) coming from the left side of the vehicle. It's not just a dashboard rattle. It worsens on accelaration, but it's a constant noise. It's not rotational (like a fan or something). This is probably the most irritating of the issues as it's impossible to ignore.

The dealer asked me to take the car to the same mechanic who did the quality check and serviced it for them. He does all the Land Rovers for this particular dealer. Obviously the car behaved quite well when we went for a drive, but I showed him video and sound proof of all the issues. He didn't seem too interested in what I showed him and instead just went with what he thought was wrong according to the one drive. He reckoned that the high pressure fuel pump could be at fault. I had my doubts. After about two weeks and R20k later (on the dealer's account), every single one of the problems were back the moment I put my foot on the fuel after they delivered the car. I immediately called the mechanic and the dealer. Both were dumbfounded as apparently everything was fine when they went for a drive.

At first I just wanted to have it checked out in the first 30 days to avoid possible issues down the line, but it became much worse quite quickly. I honestly don't even feel confident driving the car more than a few kilometres at a time. I reckon it's a faulty torque converter, but I don't know about the noise. If it is, how can it be after only one year? The mechanic (from the business who specialises in gearboxes) who did the reconditioning said he works on Freelanders quite often. If that's the case, surely he would have used the correct transmission fluid? I asked the dealer if I can take it to a different mechanic (from the one diagnosed the problem as a faulty high pressure fuel pump and who checked and serviced the car) for a second opinion, but they aren't keen since they already spent a lot of money with this guy and they want him to sort out the issues. I'm honestly not convinced that he'll be able to find the problem if he hasn't already (with all due respect).

This is taking a lot of my time, as well as unnecessary fuel costs (the mechanic is 130km from where I stay). The dealer covers the repair costs, but I'm not sure for how long they'd be happy to continue doing it, especially if the mechanic can't find the cause(s) and they start losing money on the sale. I told them that if both the issues (torque/ revs and the noise) can't be resolved, I'm going to have to ask for a refund. I did my homework before buying a Freelander and this one in particular. I specifically bought one from a reputable dealer (at a bit of a higher cost) to eliminate the chances of buying a dud. I thought I bought a good and reliable car, but these issues are incredibly frustrating.

How would you approach the situation? Has anyone here at similar issues to what I'm describing? Are there any Freelander II experts in the Hermanus/ Cape Town area who you can recommend to diagnose the issues?

Thanks for reading this far!

I'm in the new area called Sandown, north of Parklands. I recently (6 months ago) bought a high 'mileage' Freelander 2 from a dealer...the SD4 XS. Drives well and had it back at the dealers for a transmission flush. Had some light juddering and when we took it for a drive up Franschoek pass it had that 'metallic' noise somewhat in the area of the transmission and power transfer unit (PTU). It's similar to a manual labouring in, say, 5th gear up a hill and does it on highway too, and to get out of it I have to accelerate past 2000RPM.

A friend of a friend works for JLR Constantiaberg and he told me to have the transmission (Aisin TF-81SC) pressire tested. I've dug up some of training material for the Aisin TF-81SC and they do intdicate test ports blanked off with threaded blanking caps. A less intrusive way to ascertain whether or not the valve body is passing i.e. leaking internally.

Last mine was at Torque Converter Centre, they used the Ravenol oil to which I'm not sure if they used the T-WS Lifetime (not that you'd never change it), but they've also added a friction modifier and it helped, but I'm just concerned the frictiom modifier/addative chemically changes the base oil and doesn't deal with the internal heat load well...so I will be reinstating mine to OEM spec oil only. Mind you, the oil should conform to JWS 3324 for 2011 onwards if not mistaken and NOT the JWS 3309 of the earlier models. Apparently the TF-81SC is very much fluid property dependant.

Also, try a hard reset by disconnecting the battery for 10min at least and reconnect. The transmission control module could then learn your 'new' driving habbits and see if any change. Only thing for me was that the clunking noise (not steering rack or ball joint related), sounded like vibratiom from what i assume to be torque converter lock-up slip resonating theough the drivetrain, and rather noticeably near in the engine bay behind the engine.

I'm in the process of draining and renewing all driveline fluids i.e. PTU, rear differential and the Haldex 4 coupling. I'm wondering if the oil in the PTU is low as it has a breather and with the current odometere reading in excess of 250 0000km, the gear oil could have evaporated off over time via the PTU breather pipe...who knows, but I will be draining it.

I have used LandyLogic in Montague Gardens. Speak to Barry the owner. He recommended I take the car to Triangle Transmissions to have it checked out, but not sure they have the capacity to do pressure testing that I'm hoping JLR can do. Pressure testing to check if the lock-up solenoid is operating well and that the fluid circuit responsible for proper torque converter lock-up is receiving the correct pressure #Ts and Ps in the green.

[LIMA359]

Please follow up on Inox’s advice and read the thread(s) on the Freelander2’s Crankshaft Positioning Sensor (CPS). My Freelander’s (partly similar-sounding) problem was solved by replacing the CPS.
Sterkte!

I think I'll do this. Very easy to replace. It costs about R1491.67 excl.VAT.

I have noticed that the RPM when cruising at 70km/hr...it goes momentarily to below 15000RPM which gives off vibration, then the car realises it and picks the RPM up to above 15000RPM...say 1650RPM.

Thanks!

[Larry2]

Hi. I have the same vehicle and I have been extremely happy with it. Most recently we did 5 weeks in Namibia and it was a pleasure to drive in every way. It even handled the sand at Sossusvlei comfortably. I thought I would regret replacing my Disco 2 with the FL but turns out that was not the case.
I use Landy Boyz in Unit 8, Royal Park, 6 Percy Rd, Ottery, Cape Town, 7764 (021 703 0925), for all my services and repairs. I have found them reliable and most importantly quite reasonably prices.

[etienne.vd]

I also own a Freelander 2, more specific, the Freelander II HSE Sport 2.2 SD4 (not the TD4).
Bought it back in March 2013 and now have just over 250k km on the clock.

Hope I can shed some light on your concerns:

I ignored it at first and told myself that a 7-8 year old car won't be perfect

You are correct, a vehicle of this age will have some issues and squeeks, but it should not be causing uncomfortable driving - why else have you bought the vehicle? (rhetorical question)

Slight sudden dips/rises in revs and engine noise (a quick up/down if that makes sense) while idling and driving

Mine does the odd hunt-for-gears only when driving at highway speeds. When this situation arises, the engine will rev up, then down, then up again as the transmission tries to figure out the correct gear. This is normally invokesd when I want to takeover the slower vehicle in front of me. As you put your foot down, the gearbox will drop from 6th gear to 5th gear and speed up the revs, then it will go back to 6th gear and then back to 5th gear. This all happens in a matter of seconds. I guess the engine management unit (EMU) has a conversation with itself, the fuel management unit (FMU) and gearbox (GB) as follows:

Driver puts foot down on accelerator
EMU to FMU: We need more fuel/air in the internal combustion space!
EMU thinks by itself: Wait, accelerator is full pressed in, that means the gearbox needs to go to a different gear ratio
EMU to GB: Drop gear from 6th to 5th, we need more power!
EMU realizes: Oh crap, revs are now to high!
EMU to GB: Scrap that, go back to 6th gear!
EMU realizes: Oh crap again! We not accelerating fast enough, accelerator is still fully pressed down.
EMU to GB: Veto that, go back to 5th gear!

By this time, you have missed the opportunity to overtake the relatively slower vehicle in front of you.
This situation normally happens more when we are towing our caravan.

A slip in first gear at times - pulling away just isn't smooth at all and actually quite jerky at times. It's definitely not a gear shift, since it happens in sport mode (manual shifting) as well when remaining in first gear. It also happens in reverse, especially on inclines

This sounds like you need to reset the adaptive learning your gearbox already have learned. This is luckily an easy fix you can do yourself (and no, if you disconnect your battery, it will not reset).

The correct procedure (according to https://www.freel2.com/forum/post183313.html) is as follows:

Adaptive transmission reset procedure:

1. Insert key fob in dash

2. Turn on ignition by pressing the start button WITHOUT foot on brake (i.e. do not start the engine)

3. Press accelerator to the floor for 30 seconds

4. Release accelerator pedal leave key in dash, and press the start button to switch off ignition... wait 30 seconds

5. Start car as normal, and drive it hard for a few miles.

Because the auto transmission "learns" you driving style, it sometimes get confused and will become jittery. My vehicle did a small jolt forward when shifting from reverse gear to drive. This happened twice with mine and to sort it out, a quick "transmission rest" does the trick. To date the torque converter in my vehicle is problem free. Never heard of any Freelander 2 owners that ever brought up issues with their torque converter in our conversations.

Judder at revs of between 1500 and 2000

This sounds like a misfire somewhere. Do you smell diesel when this happens? A clogged diesel filter or injector can starve the engine and cause it to judder. Or maybe a leak at the vacuum side of the engine. As previously mention, the crankshaft sensor might also be faulty.

A very load and sharp vibration (it sounds like steel on steel) coming from the left side of the vehicle

This sounds like something to do with your wheels. Check your front CV axel or bearings. Another thing to check are your break pads and disks.

Thanks for reading this far!

My pleasure, hope this helps and/or points you in the right direction.

Also, try a hard reset by disconnecting the battery for 10min at least and reconnect. The transmission control module could then learn your 'new' driving habbits and see if any change. Only thing for me was that the clunking noise (not steering rack or ball joint related), sounded like vibratiom from what i assume to be torque converter lock-up slip resonating theough the drivetrain, and rather noticeably near in the engine bay behind the engine.

I don't think that you will be able to reset the transmission this way - see the steps listed above on how to do this.


Here is a list of the major repairs done to date on my vehicle (some done by approved LR dealer, some by indie):

1. Replaced battery (couple of times)
2. Replaced tires (a couple of times - bloody expensive 19inch low profiles!)
3. Replaced air intake pipe on the turbo (leaked due to small crack appearing)
4. Replaced injector seals
5. Replaced starter motor
6. Replaced intercooler (this is a common problem from what I gathered)
7. Replaced shocks (rear only - %&$# expensive as these are "mos" special and you can only get OEM parts for this)
8. Replaced breaks and discs
9. Replaced keyfobs (these are sealed units, thus you can not replace the flatteries inside, unless you break it open)
10. Replaced front passenger lock mechanism
11. Replaced water temp sensor
12. Replaced fan engine speed controller (when this module goes, you engine fan will always be on, even if you switch your vehicle off and remove the keyfob)
13. Both front HID light bulbs (also expensive as $%&@!, about R2k each, but over R3k each when buying through approved LR dealer)
14. Rear light bulbs (could only get it from LR dealer at R80.00 per bulb, cause it is "mos" painted red and sits behind a clear plastic lens. Next time I will buy cheap R8.00 bulbs and use red glass paint to paint them, way cheaper option)

One very odd thing that has now happened twice with mine is that the vehicle tried to commit suicide. Back in December 2018, the vehicle went into limp mode for no apparent reason. After looking around, checking all fuses, opening bonnet and doing the "see-if-something-looks-out-of-place" inspection, checking fluids, kicking the tires and nodding ones head as if in agreement that you see nothing out of the ordinary, I drove it (yes, whilst still in limp mode) just over 200km to the indie that now service my vehicle. It turns out that the because of the bigger turbo the SD4 has over the TD4, it tried to suck in the whole air filter. It happened a second time at the end of 2019, but this time I knew what to look for.

Hope you can sort out the issues, cause I really enjoy my Freelander.

PS: here a a breakdown of what my vehicle cost me to operate. The sporadic fuel consumption is because of the airlock that forms when filling the vehicle. This is due to the nifty trap that prevents petrol attendant from pouring petrol into a diesel vehicle. At the end it averages out 9.88 lietre per 100km.

PPS: Those 19inch wheels are a headache and breaks the wallet when replacing. Because the Freelander 2 is an AWD, it is recommended to replace all 4 together, and 19inch low profiles are not that cheap. Replaced all 4 mine now in December with Coopers at a cost of R10 930.00 (incl. fitment and alignment).

[lizardalpha]

In a nutshell, your car should not behave the way it does. I have had my FL2 for about 3 years now. I don't experience those problems, and mine is sitting at close to 190 000k, it's a 2011.

The gearbox judder is usually a symptom of a gearbox flush needed. Should also sort out your jerking when engaging if you have that.

Most important thing, get someone who knows these cars to check it out. I don't know the legal aspect of it, but I would also suggest with the permission of the dealership, if they are still willing to try and fix. If not, I'd involve the bank if you financed it.

[cruiser]

Hi everyone

I bought a used Freelander II 2.2 SD4 HSE (2013 model) from a reputable dealer about 2 months ago. The car had about 150k on the clock, it has a full service history and I asked them to have the cambelt changed as part of the deal. I also got a two year mechanical warranty. All in all, a good buy. The only thing that bugged me a bit, was that the torque converter had to be reconditioned in December 2020. I spoke to the mechanic who completed the job, trying to figure out if it's a good thing that it was done or if it points to problems with the car. He assured me that it's normal for Freelanders and that I should be good to go indefinitely.

After a few days I started noticing some minor issues. I ignored it at first and told myself that a 7-8 year old car won't be perfect, but the issues became more severe as weeks passed. I contacted the dealer about this while still within the 30 day dealership/ sale warranty.

Here's a list of issues - just note that I have very little mechanical knowledge, so I don't always know how to properly describe it:

• Slight sudden dips/ rises in revs and engine noise (a quick up/ down if that makes sense) while idling and driving. This becomes quite scary at high speeds. It's definitely on the increase. It seems to go away temporarily when the car is turned off and on again.
• A slip in first gear at times - pulling away just isn't smooth at all and actually quite jerky at times. It's definitely not a gear shift, since it happens in sport mode (manual shifting) as well when remaining in first gear. It also happens in reverse, especially on inclines.
• Judder at revs of between 1500 and 2000. I thought I was imaging this at first and that it could be a result of the 19" rims and slight bumpy roads, but it's defintely there. It's not consistent, but it's also on the increase.
• This could be nothing, but there's a very clear (but soft) sound (you can feel it throught the pedals as well) of something "engaging", soon after pulling away for the first time.
• A very load and sharp vibration (it sounds like steel on steel) coming from the left side of the vehicle. It's not just a dashboard rattle. It worsens on accelaration, but it's a constant noise. It's not rotational (like a fan or something). This is probably the most irritating of the issues as it's impossible to ignore.

The dealer asked me to take the car to the same mechanic who did the quality check and serviced it for them. He does all the Land Rovers for this particular dealer. Obviously the car behaved quite well when we went for a drive, but I showed him video and sound proof of all the issues. He didn't seem too interested in what I showed him and instead just went with what he thought was wrong according to the one drive. He reckoned that the high pressure fuel pump could be at fault. I had my doubts. After about two weeks and R20k later (on the dealer's account), every single one of the problems were back the moment I put my foot on the fuel after they delivered the car. I immediately called the mechanic and the dealer. Both were dumbfounded as apparently everything was fine when they went for a drive.

At first I just wanted to have it checked out in the first 30 days to avoid possible issues down the line, but it became much worse quite quickly. I honestly don't even feel confident driving the car more than a few kilometres at a time. I reckon it's a faulty torque converter, but I don't know about the noise. If it is, how can it be after only one year? The mechanic (from the business who specialises in gearboxes) who did the reconditioning said he works on Freelanders quite often. If that's the case, surely he would have used the correct transmission fluid? I asked the dealer if I can take it to a different mechanic (from the one diagnosed the problem as a faulty high pressure fuel pump and who checked and serviced the car) for a second opinion, but they aren't keen since they already spent a lot of money with this guy and they want him to sort out the issues. I'm honestly not convinced that he'll be able to find the problem if he hasn't already (with all due respect).

This is taking a lot of my time, as well as unnecessary fuel costs (the mechanic is 130km from where I stay). The dealer covers the repair costs, but I'm not sure for how long they'd be happy to continue doing it, especially if the mechanic can't find the cause(s) and they start losing money on the sale. I told them that if both the issues (torque/ revs and the noise) can't be resolved, I'm going to have to ask for a refund. I did my homework before buying a Freelander and this one in particular. I specifically bought one from a reputable dealer (at a bit of a higher cost) to eliminate the chances of buying a dud. I thought I bought a good and reliable car, but these issues are incredibly frustrating.

How would you approach the situation? Has anyone here at similar issues to what I'm describing? Are there any Freelander II experts in the Hermanus/ Cape Town area who you can recommend to diagnose the issues?

Thanks for reading this far!

I had a very similar Experience
I bought a Freelander 2 SD4 14months ago, also from a reputable dealer..the car itself was very clean.. but on the drive I heard some very faint noises that I wanted to check out... Took it to 3 different places and all gave it a clean bill of health.. so I bought it.. Mistake.. Should have listened to my gut.
6 months after I bought it I had to have the transfer box re built. Six months later, Torque converter and valve body..and now it feels like the Torque converter is going again... That shudder you get.
So I feel your pain.. On the whole its a great car... but the maintenance...#$%^

[mdk]

Sorry for being so quiet on here! Had a lot going on in the last few weeks.

Thank you to every person who responded with advice! I really appreciate it.

I got the dealer's permission to have the car evaluated by an indie in Stellenbosch. I couldn't get a proper booking on short notice, but the mechanic suggested that I still bring the car so that he can have a quick look at it, just to get a feel for what could be wrong and to decide on whether he'd be able to actually help me. The whole experience was so much better than the one I had with the indie who attempted to fix the car previously. The mechanic was really professional and knowledgeable and I totally believe him when he says that there aren't many things he hasn't seen after servicing Freelander IIs since it came out in 2007. I'm definitely taking my car back to him for its yearly service. It's also incredible how well-managed and clean everthing was compared to the other indie. After a drive and taking the time to listen to my explanations, he recognised all of the issues, except for the loud vibrating noise. He felt confident that he'd be able to find solutions to all of the issues. My arrangement with him was that I would make a booking for the car and that he'd start working through the problems and take it from there.

The only thing he physically did on the car, was tightening the engine air intake. He showed me that it was visibly loose. I'm pretty sure that this made an immediate difference to the revs dipping, as well as the slip in reverse and first gear. However, I starting experiences these issues again within a day.

I contacted the dealer again to ask for permission to have the indie in Stellenbosch properly evaluate and fix the car. They referred me to the manager, but he refused, citing the money already spent with the original indie as reason. That makes total sense, but I'm really not confident in them finding the issues. The car is booked to be fixed by them starting on Monday. The Stellenbosch indie offered to give them a few pointers, which I really appreciate. He also mentioned to me that he's never heard of a high pressure fuel pump giving problems on the Freelander II.

I typed a long email, detailing each one of the issues, with some video and audio proof and sent it to the workshop. The same video and audio proof they weren't really interested in the last time. I included a list of everything mentioned on this thread that might be worthwhile to have a look at. I also informed them that I'm planning to get the financing bank (the car is partially financed) involved if they aren't able to fix all of the issues.

I'm just hoping for the best at this stage. I'll keep you posted!

[mdk]

I suspect the wrong gearbox oil and the gearbkx valvebkdy that is on it's way out.

The engine dipping is defiantely not normal.

Maybe contact Walter from Land Rover Extreme in January and see if he can recommend someone in the Cape?

Did you buy the car in Stellenbosch?

I mentioned your points in the email to the workshop. Thanks! I bought the car in Somerset West.

[mdk]

Hi OP,

Congratulations on your Freelander II purchase, it is an awesome car! - I am sure once you sort out the niggles you will have years of happy miles ahead of you.

The problem you describe of having the car suddenly lose some power/drop revs while driving on the motorway is the same thing that my Freelander did at that age/mileage.

I would ask the mechanic to either clean the Crank Position Sensor (CPS) or replace it, a quick search on this forum should show you that the CPS on these Freelanders may get some dirt on them that makes them intermittently faulty.

You probably will not get rid off the slight judder when decelerating in gear from 1500 rpm to 1200rpm, it's a normal judder for that TD4 engine - mine has been doing it since day 1 and with no ill effects after 5 years of happy driving.

The sharp vibration on the left I have no idea, nor the slipping sensation and feedback through the accelerator pedal.

Perhaps taking the car to a landy specialist is unnecessary as these cars share so much of their architecture with Ford and Volvos of that era and essentially it is a drivetrain issue that an indy who knows automatic gearboxes should be able to sort out.

Yes, it's definitely a fantastic car. This is the SD4 engine - the judders are defintely becoming worse! It's always above 1500 rpm and not only on deacceleration. I mentioned about the CPS in the email to the workshop for when they attempt to fix the car again. Thanks!

[mdk]

I have owned my Freelander 2 SD4 from new in 2009 (now 163K kms) and have lived in Hermanus for nearly 4 years. There are a couple of LR Indies here, but from my experience the newly branded Auto Advance (from the previous "Roverlec" at 3 Adam Street in the Business Park near the mall) are excellent. My vehicle has been there several times for services (twice recently for separate issues) and the service was as good as my previous experiences with LR Cape Town and LR Centre in Montagu Gardens Cape Town. There is another Indie here who seems better with early Defenders and not "modern" cars (according to local chat).

Thanks for the tip! I'll check them out.

[mdk]

I'm in the new area called Sandown, north of Parklands. I recently (6 months ago) bought a high 'mileage' Freelander 2 from a dealer...the SD4 XS. Drives well and had it back at the dealers for a transmission flush. Had some light juddering and when we took it for a drive up Franschoek pass it had that 'metallic' noise somewhat in the area of the transmission and power transfer unit (PTU). It's similar to a manual labouring in, say, 5th gear up a hill and does it on highway too, and to get out of it I have to accelerate past 2000RPM.

A friend of a friend works for JLR Constantiaberg and he told me to have the transmission (Aisin TF-81SC) pressire tested. I've dug up some of training material for the Aisin TF-81SC and they do intdicate test ports blanked off with threaded blanking caps. A less intrusive way to ascertain whether or not the valve body is passing i.e. leaking internally.

Last mine was at Torque Converter Centre, they used the Ravenol oil to which I'm not sure if they used the T-WS Lifetime (not that you'd never change it), but they've also added a friction modifier and it helped, but I'm just concerned the frictiom modifier/addative chemically changes the base oil and doesn't deal with the internal heat load well...so I will be reinstating mine to OEM spec oil only. Mind you, the oil should conform to JWS 3324 for 2011 onwards if not mistaken and NOT the JWS 3309 of the earlier models. Apparently the TF-81SC is very much fluid property dependant.

Also, try a hard reset by disconnecting the battery for 10min at least and reconnect. The transmission control module could then learn your 'new' driving habbits and see if any change. Only thing for me was that the clunking noise (not steering rack or ball joint related), sounded like vibratiom from what i assume to be torque converter lock-up slip resonating theough the drivetrain, and rather noticeably near in the engine bay behind the engine.

I'm in the process of draining and renewing all driveline fluids i.e. PTU, rear differential and the Haldex 4 coupling. I'm wondering if the oil in the PTU is low as it has a breather and with the current odometere reading in excess of 250 0000km, the gear oil could have evaporated off over time via the PTU breather pipe...who knows, but I will be draining it.

I have used LandyLogic in Montague Gardens. Speak to Barry the owner. He recommended I take the car to Triangle Transmissions to have it checked out, but not sure they have the capacity to do pressure testing that I'm hoping JLR can do. Pressure testing to check if the lock-up solenoid is operating well and that the fluid circuit responsible for proper torque converter lock-up is receiving the correct pressure #Ts and Ps in the green.

Thank you for all the tips! I mentioned these to the workshop where the car is booked for next week. Triangle Transmissions reconditioned the car's torque converter in December 2020 when it belonged to the previous owner. An oil flush is obviously necessary at this point - I just find it really strange that it's necessary when taking into consideration that TT did it a bit more than a year ago. I highly doubt that they actually used the correct OEM specced oil.

[mdk]

I also own a Freelander 2, more specific, the Freelander II HSE Sport 2.2 SD4 (not the TD4).
Bought it back in March 2013 and now have just over 250k km on the clock.

Hope I can shed some light on your concerns:


You are correct, a vehicle of this age will have some issues and squeeks, but it should not be causing uncomfortable driving - why else have you bought the vehicle? (rhetorical question)



Mine does the odd hunt-for-gears only when driving at highway speeds. When this situation arises, the engine will rev up, then down, then up again as the transmission tries to figure out the correct gear. This is normally invokesd when I want to takeover the slower vehicle in front of me. As you put your foot down, the gearbox will drop from 6th gear to 5th gear and speed up the revs, then it will go back to 6th gear and then back to 5th gear. This all happens in a matter of seconds. I guess the engine management unit (EMU) has a conversation with itself, the fuel management unit (FMU) and gearbox (GB) as follows:

Driver puts foot down on accelerator
EMU to FMU: We need more fuel/air in the internal combustion space!
EMU thinks by itself: Wait, accelerator is full pressed in, that means the gearbox needs to go to a different gear ratio
EMU to GB: Drop gear from 6th to 5th, we need more power!
EMU realizes: Oh crap, revs are now to high!
EMU to GB: Scrap that, go back to 6th gear!
EMU realizes: Oh crap again! We not accelerating fast enough, accelerator is still fully pressed down.
EMU to GB: Veto that, go back to 5th gear!

By this time, you have missed the opportunity to overtake the relatively slower vehicle in front of you.
This situation normally happens more when we are towing our caravan.



This sounds like you need to reset the adaptive learning your gearbox already have learned. This is luckily an easy fix you can do yourself (and no, if you disconnect your battery, it will not reset).

The correct procedure (according to https://www.freel2.com/forum/post183313.html) is as follows:

Adaptive transmission reset procedure:

1. Insert key fob in dash

2. Turn on ignition by pressing the start button WITHOUT foot on brake (i.e. do not start the engine)

3. Press accelerator to the floor for 30 seconds

4. Release accelerator pedal leave key in dash, and press the start button to switch off ignition... wait 30 seconds

5. Start car as normal, and drive it hard for a few miles.

Because the auto transmission "learns" you driving style, it sometimes get confused and will become jittery. My vehicle did a small jolt forward when shifting from reverse gear to drive. This happened twice with mine and to sort it out, a quick "transmission rest" does the trick. To date the torque converter in my vehicle is problem free. Never heard of any Freelander 2 owners that ever brought up issues with their torque converter in our conversations.



This sounds like a misfire somewhere. Do you smell diesel when this happens? A clogged diesel filter or injector can starve the engine and cause it to judder. Or maybe a leak at the vacuum side of the engine. As previously mention, the crankshaft sensor might also be faulty.


This sounds like something to do with your wheels. Check your front CV axel or bearings. Another thing to check are your break pads and disks.



My pleasure, hope this helps and/or points you in the right direction.



I don't think that you will be able to reset the transmission this way - see the steps listed above on how to do this.


Here is a list of the major repairs done to date on my vehicle (some done by approved LR dealer, some by indie):

1. Replaced battery (couple of times)
2. Replaced tires (a couple of times - bloody expensive 19inch low profiles!)
3. Replaced air intake pipe on the turbo (leaked due to small crack appearing)
4. Replaced injector seals
5. Replaced starter motor
6. Replaced intercooler (this is a common problem from what I gathered)
7. Replaced shocks (rear only - %&$# expensive as these are "mos" special and you can only get OEM parts for this)
8. Replaced breaks and discs
9. Replaced keyfobs (these are sealed units, thus you can not replace the flatteries inside, unless you break it open)
10. Replaced front passenger lock mechanism
11. Replaced water temp sensor
12. Replaced fan engine speed controller (when this module goes, you engine fan will always be on, even if you switch your vehicle off and remove the keyfob)
13. Both front HID light bulbs (also expensive as $%&@!, about R2k each, but over R3k each when buying through approved LR dealer)
14. Rear light bulbs (could only get it from LR dealer at R80.00 per bulb, cause it is "mos" painted red and sits behind a clear plastic lens. Next time I will buy cheap R8.00 bulbs and use red glass paint to paint them, way cheaper option)

One very odd thing that has now happened twice with mine is that the vehicle tried to commit suicide. Back in December 2018, the vehicle went into limp mode for no apparent reason. After looking around, checking all fuses, opening bonnet and doing the "see-if-something-looks-out-of-place" inspection, checking fluids, kicking the tires and nodding ones head as if in agreement that you see nothing out of the ordinary, I drove it (yes, whilst still in limp mode) just over 200km to the indie that now service my vehicle. It turns out that the because of the bigger turbo the SD4 has over the TD4, it tried to suck in the whole air filter. It happened a second time at the end of 2019, but this time I knew what to look for.

Hope you can sort out the issues, cause I really enjoy my Freelander.

PS: here a a breakdown of what my vehicle cost me to operate. The sporadic fuel consumption is because of the airlock that forms when filling the vehicle. This is due to the nifty trap that prevents petrol attendant from pouring petrol into a diesel vehicle. At the end it averages out 9.88 lietre per 100km.

PPS: Those 19inch wheels are a headache and breaks the wallet when replacing. Because the Freelander 2 is an AWD, it is recommended to replace all 4 together, and 19inch low profiles are not that cheap. Replaced all 4 mine now in December with Coopers at a cost of R10 930.00 (incl. fitment and alignment).

Really enjoyed reading this! Thanks for taking the time to write all of this down.

My revs issue doesn't sound the same as you're describing. The gear changes are pretty smooth. The dips come in-between gear changes. Thanks for the tip on resetting the adaptive learning! I mentioned it to the workshop as something to do. I'll try it myself if I the problem persists after I get the car back. I don't smell fuel during the judder. There aren't any odd smells when driving at all. The dieself filter also has been replaced pretty recently if I remember correctly now. Will definitely have them check the CV axel/ bearings! A passenger actually mentioned the other day that it sounds like the noise can be from the wheel area.

Really not looking forward to start spending on this car! A lot of people told me that the Freelander II isn't more expensive to maintain compared to similar cars, but I'll have to see about that

[mdk]

I had a very similar Experience
I bought a Freelander 2 SD4 14months ago, also from a reputable dealer..the car itself was very clean.. but on the drive I heard some very faint noises that I wanted to check out... Took it to 3 different places and all gave it a clean bill of health.. so I bought it.. Mistake.. Should have listened to my gut.
6 months after I bought it I had to have the transfer box re built. Six months later, Torque converter and valve body..and now it feels like the Torque converter is going again... That shudder you get.
So I feel your pain.. On the whole its a great car... but the maintenance...#$%^

Always listen to your gut. I don't have the greatest feeling about this car anymore, but I hope to be surprised. I had my doubts when I bought it, but I was also in quite a bit of a hurry to get a new car as my previous car was written off (someone drove into me from the back while I was waiting at a traffic circle). It was the best Freelander II available in the Western Cape at the time. Sorry to hear about your experience!

[byaru1]

Hi everyone

I bought a used Freelander II 2.2 SD4 HSE (2013 model) from a reputable dealer about 2 months ago. The car had about 150k on the clock, it has a full service history and I asked them to have the cambelt changed as part of the deal. I also got a two year mechanical warranty. All in all, a good buy. The only thing that bugged me a bit, was that the torque converter had to be reconditioned in December 2020. I spoke to the mechanic who completed the job, trying to figure out if it's a good thing that it was done or if it points to problems with the car. He assured me that it's normal for Freelanders and that I should be good to go indefinitely.

After a few days I started noticing some minor issues. I ignored it at first and told myself that a 7-8 year old car won't be perfect, but the issues became more severe as weeks passed. I contacted the dealer about this while still within the 30 day dealership/ sale warranty.

Here's a list of issues - just note that I have very little mechanical knowledge, so I don't always know how to properly describe it:

• Slight sudden dips/ rises in revs and engine noise (a quick up/ down if that makes sense) while idling and driving. This becomes quite scary at high speeds. It's definitely on the increase. It seems to go away temporarily when the car is turned off and on again.
• A slip in first gear at times - pulling away just isn't smooth at all and actually quite jerky at times. It's definitely not a gear shift, since it happens in sport mode (manual shifting) as well when remaining in first gear. It also happens in reverse, especially on inclines.
• Judder at revs of between 1500 and 2000. I thought I was imaging this at first and that it could be a result of the 19" rims and slight bumpy roads, but it's defintely there. It's not consistent, but it's also on the increase.
• This could be nothing, but there's a very clear (but soft) sound (you can feel it throught the pedals as well) of something "engaging", soon after pulling away for the first time.
• A very load and sharp vibration (it sounds like steel on steel) coming from the left side of the vehicle. It's not just a dashboard rattle. It worsens on accelaration, but it's a constant noise. It's not rotational (like a fan or something). This is probably the most irritating of the issues as it's impossible to ignore.

The dealer asked me to take the car to the same mechanic who did the quality check and serviced it for them. He does all the Land Rovers for this particular dealer. Obviously the car behaved quite well when we went for a drive, but I showed him video and sound proof of all the issues. He didn't seem too interested in what I showed him and instead just went with what he thought was wrong according to the one drive. He reckoned that the high pressure fuel pump could be at fault. I had my doubts. After about two weeks and R20k later (on the dealer's account), every single one of the problems were back the moment I put my foot on the fuel after they delivered the car. I immediately called the mechanic and the dealer. Both were dumbfounded as apparently everything was fine when they went for a drive.

At first I just wanted to have it checked out in the first 30 days to avoid possible issues down the line, but it became much worse quite quickly. I honestly don't even feel confident driving the car more than a few kilometres at a time. I reckon it's a faulty torque converter, but I don't know about the noise. If it is, how can it be after only one year? The mechanic (from the business who specialises in gearboxes) who did the reconditioning said he works on Freelanders quite often. If that's the case, surely he would have used the correct transmission fluid? I asked the dealer if I can take it to a different mechanic (from the one diagnosed the problem as a faulty high pressure fuel pump and who checked and serviced the car) for a second opinion, but they aren't keen since they already spent a lot of money with this guy and they want him to sort out the issues. I'm honestly not convinced that he'll be able to find the problem if he hasn't already (with all due respect).

This is taking a lot of my time, as well as unnecessary fuel costs (the mechanic is 130km from where I stay). The dealer covers the repair costs, but I'm not sure for how long they'd be happy to continue doing it, especially if the mechanic can't find the cause(s) and they start losing money on the sale. I told them that if both the issues (torque/ revs and the noise) can't be resolved, I'm going to have to ask for a refund. I did my homework before buying a Freelander and this one in particular. I specifically bought one from a reputable dealer (at a bit of a higher cost) to eliminate the chances of buying a dud. I thought I bought a good and reliable car, but these issues are incredibly frustrating.

How would you approach the situation? Has anyone here at similar issues to what I'm describing? Are there any Freelander II experts in the Hermanus/ Cape Town area who you can recommend to diagnose the issues?

Thanks for reading this far!

When I got our 2012 D4 V8 at around 100,000kms a few years ago, it was a near description of what you state above - the way it felt and drove, after a few days of getting it.

After a few weeks of disappointment and realization that I didn't buy a brand new car, I decided on the approach of "drive it till something actually breaks then fix whatever breaks"

100,000kms later, the car still feels the same way, nothing has broken, and its just a matter of service and drive (and many, many frequent petrol fillups)

I'm not saying my method is right, but it made me settle mentally quickly instead of running around dealerships and Indies trying to convert a user car into making it feel like a brand new car.

[mdk]

When I got our 2012 D4 V8 at around 100,000kms a few years ago, it was a near description of what you state above - the way it felt and drove, after a few days of getting it.

After a few weeks of disappointment and realization that I didn't buy a brand new car, I decided on the approach of "drive it till something actually breaks then fix whatever breaks"

100,000kms later, the car still feels the same way, nothing has broken, and its just a matter of service and drive (and many, many frequent petrol fillups)

I'm not saying my method is right, but it made me settle mentally quickly instead of running around dealerships and Indies trying to convert a user car into making it feel like a brand new car.

I have to disagree respectfully I'm fully aware of the fact that an eight year old car will have its fare share of imperfections, but there are limits. Certain things are unacceptable, such as being worried for your own safety when driving at 100 kmh due to the car shaking, a noise coming from the bonnet that makes you feel like you're gonna go mad, not even being able to pull away smoothly, etc. If I was fine with these things, I would've bought a 1995 Isuzu KB not an eight year old fairly premium vehicle from a reputable dealer with decent mileage and a full service record. I'm not expecting for it to feel like a brand new car. Just like a decent car. I've driven quite a few Freelander IIs before, know some people with Freelanders and Discos and these problems just don't generally exist with them.

I get what you're saying though and I understand the method - I'm at the point where I want to start doing the same.

[byaru1]

I have to disagree respectfully I'm fully aware of the fact that an eight year old car will have its fare share of imperfections, but there are limits. Certain things are unacceptable, such as being worried for your own safety when driving at 100 kmh due to the car shaking, a noise coming from the bonnet that makes you feel like you're gonna go mad, not even being able to pull away smoothly, etc. If I was fine with these things, I would've bought a 1995 Isuzu KB not an eight year old fairly premium vehicle from a reputable dealer with decent mileage and a full service record. I'm not expecting for it to feel like a brand new car. Just like a decent car. I've driven quite a few Freelander IIs before, know some people with Freelanders and Discos and these problems just don't generally exist with them.

I get what you're saying though and I understand the method - I'm at the point where I want to start doing the same.

Try my method I guarantee you peace of mind and a normal blood pressure.

Of the issues you listed, I would ignore the others and just have the last one examined.

[mdk]

A bit of an update for those interested.

The car has been at the indie for about two weeks now and they still can't find solutions to the issues. At least they acknowledged all the issues, something they haven't done previously.

I spoke to the manager of the dealer where I bought the car from earlier this week. He updated me on the progress and told me that the indie took the car to two Land Rover dealerships (Stellenbosch and Constantiaberg) as well and neither of them can say what needs to be done. They also got hold of the previous owner of the car. Apparently he admitted to the dealership that he wasn't honest about the issues and that he's been having the same issues for quite some time. He had the car at a few indies and none could help him.

The manager is confident that the indie will still manage to find the answers and asked me to just be patient for a while longer. I'm obviously not so confident anymore. What are the chances after so many indies and dealerships had a look at it? Even if they find a solution, I don't want to carry the risk of owning this car.

I feel that it's their responsibility, since they bought a faulty car from someone and sold it to me. I did my homework and tested it before buying, but I also trusted them when they told me that the car is problem free. Also note that I wanted to contact the previous owner before buying, but they told me that they don't have the info to give me since they bought it in from one of their other branches. I'm not sure how they got hold of him now.

Any input would be greatly appreciated!

[Vijaygza]

Hi everyone

I bought a used Freelander II 2.2 SD4 HSE (2013 model) from a reputable dealer about 2 months ago. The car had about 150k on the clock, it has a full service history and I asked them to have the cambelt changed as part of the deal. I also got a two year mechanical warranty. All in all, a good buy. The only thing that bugged me a bit, was that the torque converter had to be reconditioned in December 2020. I spoke to the mechanic who completed the job, trying to figure out if it's a good thing that it was done or if it points to problems with the car. He assured me that it's normal for Freelanders and that I should be good to go indefinitely.

After a few days I started noticing some minor issues. I ignored it at first and told myself that a 7-8 year old car won't be perfect, but the issues became more severe as weeks passed. I contacted the dealer about this while still within the 30 day dealership/ sale warranty.

Here's a list of issues - just note that I have very little mechanical knowledge, so I don't always know how to properly describe it:

• Slight sudden dips/ rises in revs and engine noise (a quick up/ down if that makes sense) while idling and driving. This becomes quite scary at high speeds. It's definitely on the increase. It seems to go away temporarily when the car is turned off and on again.
• A slip in first gear at times - pulling away just isn't smooth at all and actually quite jerky at times. It's definitely not a gear shift, since it happens in sport mode (manual shifting) as well when remaining in first gear. It also happens in reverse, especially on inclines.
• Judder at revs of between 1500 and 2000. I thought I was imaging this at first and that it could be a result of the 19" rims and slight bumpy roads, but it's defintely there. It's not consistent, but it's also on the increase.
• This could be nothing, but there's a very clear (but soft) sound (you can feel it throught the pedals as well) of something "engaging", soon after pulling away for the first time.
• A very load and sharp vibration (it sounds like steel on steel) coming from the left side of the vehicle. It's not just a dashboard rattle. It worsens on accelaration, but it's a constant noise. It's not rotational (like a fan or something). This is probably the most irritating of the issues as it's impossible to ignore.

The dealer asked me to take the car to the same mechanic who did the quality check and serviced it for them. He does all the Land Rovers for this particular dealer. Obviously the car behaved quite well when we went for a drive, but I showed him video and sound proof of all the issues. He didn't seem too interested in what I showed him and instead just went with what he thought was wrong according to the one drive. He reckoned that the high pressure fuel pump could be at fault. I had my doubts. After about two weeks and R20k later (on the dealer's account), every single one of the problems were back the moment I put my foot on the fuel after they delivered the car. I immediately called the mechanic and the dealer. Both were dumbfounded as apparently everything was fine when they went for a drive.

At first I just wanted to have it checked out in the first 30 days to avoid possible issues down the line, but it became much worse quite quickly. I honestly don't even feel confident driving the car more than a few kilometres at a time. I reckon it's a faulty torque converter, but I don't know about the noise. If it is, how can it be after only one year? The mechanic (from the business who specialises in gearboxes) who did the reconditioning said he works on Freelanders quite often. If that's the case, surely he would have used the correct transmission fluid? I asked the dealer if I can take it to a different mechanic (from the one diagnosed the problem as a faulty high pressure fuel pump and who checked and serviced the car) for a second opinion, but they aren't keen since they already spent a lot of money with this guy and they want him to sort out the issues. I'm honestly not convinced that he'll be able to find the problem if he hasn't already (with all due respect).

This is taking a lot of my time, as well as unnecessary fuel costs (the mechanic is 130km from where I stay). The dealer covers the repair costs, but I'm not sure for how long they'd be happy to continue doing it, especially if the mechanic can't find the cause(s) and they start losing money on the sale. I told them that if both the issues (torque/ revs and the noise) can't be resolved, I'm going to have to ask for a refund. I did my homework before buying a Freelander and this one in particular. I specifically bought one from a reputable dealer (at a bit of a higher cost) to eliminate the chances of buying a dud. I thought I bought a good and reliable car, but these issues are incredibly frustrating.

How would you approach the situation? Has anyone here at similar issues to what I'm describing? Are there any Freelander II experts in the Hermanus/ Cape Town area who you can recommend to diagnose the issues?

Thanks for reading this far!

I have just seen and read this thread, so apologies if it's late and the issues have been sorted. Given your experience, I would say just go and get a refund. Regardless of the one month dealer warranty, the CPA allows for a return if there are serious issues. A reputable dealer would probably agree, and may well have another, better vehicle to offer you. If there are so many different issues now, you can only guess what's waiting for you further down the line.

Such a pity.

[mdk]

I have just seen and read this thread, so apologies if it's late and the issues have been sorted. Given your experience, I would say just go and get a refund. Regardless of the one month dealer warranty, the CPA allows for a return if there are serious issues. A reputable dealer would probably agree, and may well have another, better vehicle to offer you. If there are so many different issues now, you can only guess what's waiting for you further down the line.

Such a pity.

Thank you very much for your response. It's good to know about the CPA allowing for a return if there are issues.

If you haven't seen it yet, you can also have a look at my last reply to this thread (the one right before your reply). Unfortunately, the issues have not been sorted yet.