New Defender : Can it be used for Overlanding? - Page 8




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  1. #141
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    Default Re: New Defender : Can it be used for Overlanding?

    done. Thank you Nys and Rob
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  2. #142
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    Default Re: New Defender : Can it be used for Overlanding?

    My concern with the lower profile tyres is damage to the rims from hitting rocks or other obstacles when deflated. I have had rims crack twice (Disco 3, 265/60R18's).

    On a recent trip in Kaokoland, our Fortuner with 265/70R16's (30.6" diameter) was much better in the riverbeds than our D3 with 265/60R18's (30.5" diameter). Thats with 1.5 bar in the Fortuner and 1.2 bar in the D3. That may have had more to do with the D3 being a lot heavier though. But the (deflated) patch on the 70 profile was (I am sure) a lot longer, though the (deflated) width is not significantly more.

    In general, other than the rim cracking problem, I have never had issues with the 60 profile.

    But that rim cracking is a very big deal on a long overland trip. I don't think you can fix a crack when you are out in the bush, and even in towns, not many places can weld rims properly and safely. Some say rims cannot be welded full-stop.

    This issue alone makes me consider the Tuffant steel rims (I can't put smaller rims on the D3, and I am not that keen to put 65 profile R18's on)
    Last edited by zoneout; 2021/12/08 at 01:47 PM.
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  3. #143
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    Default Re: New Defender : Can it be used for Overlanding?

    2017 LC 200 VX (Standard 285/60/R18 @ 2.3bar)
    Measured from ground to bottom of rim
    Front 112mm
    Rear 120mm

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  5. #144
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    Default Re: New Defender : Can it be used for Overlanding?

    Zoneout I agree and I am playing devils advocate here, so as a comparison, I have had a D3, two D4's and a D5 and never cracked any rims ever and they all did extensive overland trips (D5 the least as I had it a short time) - And some rough trips through the Karoo and some of those roads destroy tyres, or hunters road or circumnavigating CGKG on cut lines both have lots of hard wood stumps etc etc.

    So is it luck, driver ability, or the rim size? I say possibly all 3 but if you have a problem with the tyres on a new defender you will have the same problem with tyres on a Jimny, Tourag, Amarok, Hilux, Fortuna, Ranger, Everest and XC60 based on the measurements submitted in this thread and yet some of those owners would turn around and say it has low profile 20 inch tyres!
    Last edited by BruceT; 2021/12/08 at 02:04 PM.
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  6. #145
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    Default Re: New Defender : Can it be used for Overlanding?

    Thank you Hermang

    Updated

    - New Defender 12cm (20 inch wheels)

    - 70 Series 16cms
    - Jimny 12cm
    - Touarag 11cm
    - Amarok v6 12cm
    - Hilux 13cm
    - Fortuna. 13cm
    - FJ Cruiser. 15cm
    - Ranger. 12cm
    - Everest. 10cm
    - XC60. 11cm
    - 200 VX 12cm
    BruceT
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  7. #146
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    Default Re: New Defender : Can it be used for Overlanding?

    Bruce....D4 with 18" Compomotive rims (they were yours!) Wrangler 255x60, ground to rim 12.5cm
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  9. #147
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    Default Re: New Defender : Can it be used for Overlanding?

    The standard wheel of the ' old '130 Defender is a 16inch Wolf rim with a 235/85/16 tyre,
    23.5*.85 gives 19.975cm say 7.8",
    ... so a bit less than a 32" Wheel.
    There's a 1.5cm wall around the seating shoulder of the rim so can take 1.5cm off the 19.9cm so say ~ 18.5cm of exposed tyre wall from rim to tyre base.
    Will be less under ~ 2/3 ton load on each wheel... 15-16cm rim-to-ground ?

    As I see it, if one deflates to increase the tyre footprint the side walls bulge out and the 'sharp' rim edge sits closer to the ground ... so for lower profile tyres theres much more vulnerability to sidewall cuts from rocks and/or the rim edge impacts the bsse of the tyre damaging or puncturing it.
    For lower profile tyres there is probably good benefit for wider more radial tyre/tread that has less need of deflating ?
    Last edited by BushNomad; 2021/12/08 at 02:44 PM.
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  11. #148
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    Default Re: New Defender : Can it be used for Overlanding?

    100% correct but all the vehicles listed above with the same tyre height or lower as the ND, will have the same problem.
    BruceT
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  12. #149
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    Default Re: New Defender : Can it be used for Overlanding?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cecilh View Post
    Bruce....D4 with 18" Compomotive rims (they were yours!) Wrangler 255x60, ground to rim 12.5cm

    Do you want to sell them back to me?

    (Hope you are well)

    That is however very interesting that they are only 0.5cm taller than my 20 inch standard tyres.
    Last edited by BruceT; 2021/12/08 at 03:51 PM.
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  13. #150
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    Default Re: New Defender : Can it be used for Overlanding?

    OK, then my D4 with standard size (255/55/R19) tyres on the factory 19" rims is a problem. Height is only 9.5cm standing empty in my garage at standard road pressure (2.3 front and 2.5 back).

    I will have to consider bigger tyres.
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  15. #151
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    Default Re: New Defender : Can it be used for Overlanding?

    2001 Mitsubishi Colt V6. Front 265/75R15 1.8 bar Standard size & pressure. 15cm
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  17. #152
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    Default Re: New Defender : Can it be used for Overlanding?

    Apologies if I have missed it but what is the point of the actual sidewall measurement vs the calculation theoretically using the tyre size? Is it to take vehicle weight into the equation?

    Example, I have gone from 255/55 19 (implied sidewall of 0.55x255mm or 140mm) to 265/60 18 (implied sidewall of 0.6x265mm or 159mm) i.e. a 13.5% increase in sidewall for basically the same tyre size


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  19. #153
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    Default Re: New Defender : Can it be used for Overlanding?

    The aim is to give a realistic review of how close many different manufacturers standard tyre sizes are.

    I would have honestly thought my ND’s 20inch tyre profile would be much lower than say a Rangers or a Hiluxs. based on the above results it turns out there is not really any difference
    Last edited by BruceT; 2021/12/08 at 07:04 PM.
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  21. #154
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    Default Re: New Defender : Can it be used for Overlanding?

    Quote Originally Posted by anolte View Post
    OK, then my D4 with standard size (255/55/R19) tyres on the factory 19" rims is a problem. Height is only 9.5cm standing empty in my garage at standard road pressure (2.3 front and 2.5 back).

    I will have to consider bigger tyres.

    donít change them unless you feel you have to. I would however be careful though as thatís pretty low
    BruceT
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    Default Re: New Defender : Can it be used for Overlanding?

    Quote Originally Posted by anolte View Post
    OK, then my D4 with standard size (255/55/R19) tyres on the factory 19" rims is a problem. Height is only 9.5cm standing empty in my garage at standard road pressure (2.3 front and 2.5 back).

    I will have to consider bigger tyres.

    When I had my D4 I did ALLOT of rocky off-roading with the standard tires, Never deflated them, never had issues.

    Very capable in standard form.
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  24. #156
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    Default Re: New Defender : Can it be used for Overlanding?

    Hi Bruce, I think you have nailed the tyre debate for your ND. Well done. (I would still be persuaded to go 18 inch Stellies myself for big bush trips with matching tyres rims on my trailer to give me two spares for both units - Trailer hubs may need to be changed though)

    Now you need to look at tyre loading or vehicle loading. What do you need to carry with each type of trip you plan. This could result in a fierce debate. I think some people tend to overload their vehicles and / or trailers. The big challenge is to try and minimize stuff that challenges volumetric requirements. Pack small as possible. What are on route purchase opportunities etc. This maybe easier for you now that you have the conqueror trailer at your disposal. You also need to be able to have easy access to items like compressor and wheel changing equipment.
    The more we talk about what is wrong, the less we see what is right in this world.

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  26. #157
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    Default Re: New Defender : Can it be used for Overlanding?

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceT View Post
    Thank you Hermang

    Updated

    - New Defender 12cm (20 inch wheels)

    - 70 Series 16cms
    - Jimny 12cm
    - Touarag 11cm
    - Amarok v6 12cm
    - Hilux 13cm
    - Fortuna. 13cm
    - FJ Cruiser. 15cm
    - Ranger. 12cm
    - Everest. 10cm
    - XC60. 11cm
    - 200 VX 12cm

    About the same for my Fortuner with 265/65 R17 tyres, maybe 13.5cm. My little contribution is that I went with a friend in a new Defender to the LR off road "training" course with LR guys down from Jhb. I was a little cynical but well impressed, particularly with the Defender over the RR sport and even D5. Clearance and traction control, hill descent etc was excellent and I think I would have battled a bit more with my Fortuner (it was raining and somewhat slippery). In such conditions the rear diff lock may have helped but wasn't essential, obviously it wasn't an extreme course.

    One thing that may be useful is that the young guys running the course were quite knowledgeable and very open. The tyre issue did come up and there was an option for the more aggressive Good Year (fitted to his vehicle) but I didn't check the actual tyre designation. If you haven't already, chatting to these guys could be interesting.

    My comment on the 20" rims has been made before; a Namib guided trip had one D4 with these rims and it struggled in the dunes, experienced driver but the combination of tyres and maybe traction control set up made it the worst performing vehicle. I am pretty sure this has been sorted though.

    Great project; very interesting to follow.

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  28. #158
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    Default Re: New Defender : Can it be used for Overlanding?

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceHun View Post
    Why do you say disable the auto hold?

    The ATPC 2 is for guys with poor throttle control! It is great for downhill rocky slippery conditions though. Mine is the standard version so you canít set speed for uphill only downhill.

    Interesting, I just went down my steep driveway, put car in Low range, no roll back when going back up.,Auto hold did not show as on so I think it may only work as normal where you can turn it on or off when not in low range.
    I'm not sure - it was the instructors on the LR offroad course that advised it for one section with a fairly steep slightly rocky downhill. Maybe to prevent the auto hold making for jerky downhill control - you would have to accelerate slightly to release it? The vehicle I was in didn't have it so it was a non-issue.

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  30. #159
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    Default Re: New Defender : Can it be used for Overlanding?

    Quote Originally Posted by mudgrubber View Post
    About the same for my Fortuner with 265/65 R17 tyres, maybe 13.5cm. My little contribution is that I went with a friend in a new Defender to the LR off road "training" course with LR guys down from Jhb. I was a little cynical but well impressed, particularly with the Defender over the RR sport and even D5. Clearance and traction control, hill descent etc was excellent and I think I would have battled a bit more with my Fortuner (it was raining and somewhat slippery). In such conditions the rear diff lock may have helped but wasn't essential, obviously it wasn't an extreme course.

    One thing that may be useful is that the young guys running the course were quite knowledgeable and very open. The tyre issue did come up and there was an option for the more aggressive Good Year (fitted to his vehicle) but I didn't check the actual tyre designation. If you haven't already, chatting to these guys could be interesting.

    My comment on the 20" rims has been made before; a Namib guided trip had one D4 with these rims and it struggled in the dunes, experienced driver but the combination of tyres and maybe traction control set up made it the worst performing vehicle. I am pretty sure this has been sorted though.

    Great project; very interesting to follow.
    Thank you. Did that experienced driver in the D4 switch off his TC? This is the first thing you should do in deep sand.

    But yes again you are 100% correct, bigger profile tyres are better than low profiles in sand but I found my D4's very capable even when towing my Xplorer in thick sand.
    BruceT
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  31. #160
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    Default Re: New Defender : Can it be used for Overlanding?

    Quote Originally Posted by mudgrubber View Post
    I'm not sure - it was the instructors on the LR offroad course that advised it for one section with a fairly steep slightly rocky downhill. Maybe to prevent the auto hold making for jerky downhill control - you would have to accelerate slightly to release it? The vehicle I was in didn't have it so it was a non-issue.
    This can be switched on and off so don't know why someone would use it off road, but even when on it takes basically no acceleration to deactivate it. A extremely light tap where you barely see any rev increase releases it, well on mine anyway.
    BruceT
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