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  1. #61
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    Default Re: Coming to your neighborhood: Radiant portable mini nuclear reactors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miems View Post
    ...
    It would be nice if for once the brains could put forward a easy to understand pro's and con's argument based on facts and not politics and personal feelings. #wishfulthinking
    This is not THE answer, but it does give some indication of where the economies of scale are in terms of small nuclear reactors... 100 MW seems to be an optimum for complexity vs. economy... regulation, not technology seems to be the biggest hurdle.

    I posted this before, but here is a link to a group with the idea for an open source blueprint to building nuclear power plants... it provides some practical insight for us that are not in the business... https://singularityhub.com/2020/03/0...coming-online/

    Catching up quickly is the idea of "very small reactors", the kind of thing in the OP. Here the idea is to scale the item in volume with reactors up to about 15 MW in prebuilt single units. The idea is that compliance and regulation will be dealt with at a central point with homologated models. Some of the proposals are sealed units designed to operate for 15 years or more, and then discarded completely when the fuel expires or safety becomes an issue.

    Here is some more info on how small reactors can fit into the existing markets... https://www.world-nuclear.org/inform...-reactors.aspx

    The problems facing nuclear power are higher capital costs per megawatt and recovering those costs without political and economic certainty over a long period.
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  3. #62
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    Default Re: Coming to your neighborhood: Radiant portable mini nuclear reactors.

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    Explain how the solar energy will be stored easily and cheaply. Without trillions of Rands of batteries.
    OK - lets leave it here for now.

    That is not even the debate,
    Cheers

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  4. #63
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    Default Re: Coming to your neighborhood: Radiant portable mini nuclear reactors.

    Actually the storage issue is very relevant to renewable. But you don't need batteries.....

    With solar plants, the energy is stored as heat which allows the turbines to continue running until long after sundown. The problem is still cost. The cost of building such a solar plant goes up exponentially compared to one that only produces when the sun is shining. Even for the latter, you need some capacity for the turbine to keep running for a while when a cloud covers the sun.

    Wind has the same problem, you need to be able to harvest the energy when you are producing more than the requirement in order to release it when the demand goes up. You even need this on a National network, and Eskom uses water pumped in the Lesotho system which can then be used to produce hydro power again, another expensive solution, but effective.

    C
    If you ain't livin on the edge, you're taking up too much space!

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  6. #64
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    Default Re: Coming to your neighborhood: Radiant portable mini nuclear reactors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    OK - lets leave it here for now.

    That is not even the debate,
    If you say so. You still can't tell me how those fluctuations in the grid supply will be handled without significant investment in some type of storage medium? We don't have water, molten salt is a major cost and hugely complex, and even ESKOM has now tendered for batteries?

    Solar only in daylight
    Wind only when the wind blows
    Hydro only if there is water

    No, the only reliable, constant supply option is either nuclear or else fossil fuel.
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  7. #65
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    Default Re: Coming to your neighborhood: Radiant portable mini nuclear reactors.

    Ok I know bugger all about batteries etc but we have to find a storage solution if renewables are to become a viable option.

    As I said I know nothing about batteries but essentially a battery is + and a - terminal with "battery water" in between (I vaguely remember playing with something like this in the lab at varsity). So instead of building millions of high capacity batteries we need to find a way to use the earth or lakes etc as a battery itself. The renewable source is the "battery charger".

    Lastly, if we could perfect tidal power where the corrosion and wearing of components wasn't a factor we'd be on to a winner.
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  8. #66
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    Default Re: Coming to your neighborhood: Radiant portable mini nuclear reactors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miems View Post
    From what I read we have 3 options to generate electricity on a mass scale, the traditional fossil fuel way, green energy i.e. wind, solar, hydro and nuclear.
    Digs at the gov aside and in a perfect world, which would be the holy grail to ensure the long term generation of power without destroying human kind and the planet.
    It would be nice if for once the brains could put forward a easy to understand pro's and con's argument based on facts and not politics and personal feelings. #wishfulthinking
    I think the future is Geothermal.
    It works exactly like nuclear power, but rather than using a reactor to boil the water, that creates the steam, that drives the turbines, to produce power, it uses the earth itself.
    Advantages:
    As clean as you can get. Sustainable and renewable.
    Provides base load.
    Disadvantages:
    Requires specific locations where the rock is hot enough to bring the water up to the right temperature. Pretty much like all forms of power generation though.
    Being able to drill down to these hot locations, problem being largely solved by the oil industry. Other options like building the plants at the bottom of disused mines.
    Requires a lot of water, but newer plants are or can be designed as closed cycle.
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  10. #67
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    Default Re: Coming to your neighborhood: Radiant portable mini nuclear reactors.

    Quote Originally Posted by gazza1210 View Post
    Ok I know bugger all about batteries etc but we have to find a storage solution if renewables are to become a viable option.

    As I said I know nothing about batteries but essentially a battery is + and a - terminal with "battery water" in between (I vaguely remember playing with something like this in the lab at varsity). So instead of building millions of high capacity batteries we need to find a way to use the earth or lakes etc as a battery itself. The renewable source is the "battery charger".
    We have all those old gold mines filled with acidic water.........
    Jakes Louw
    2012 Jeep Sahara Unlimited 3.6 V6
    Percivamus

  11. #68
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    Default Re: Coming to your neighborhood: Radiant portable mini nuclear reactors.

    Quote Originally Posted by C Africa View Post
    Actually the storage issue is very relevant to renewable. But you don't need batteries.....

    With solar plants, the energy is stored as heat which allows the turbines to continue running until long after sundown. The problem is still cost. The cost of building such a solar plant goes up exponentially compared to one that only produces when the sun is shining. Even for the latter, you need some capacity for the turbine to keep running for a while when a cloud covers the sun.

    Wind has the same problem, you need to be able to harvest the energy when you are producing more than the requirement in order to release it when the demand goes up. You even need this on a National network, and Eskom uses water pumped in the Lesotho system which can then be used to produce hydro power again, another expensive solution, but effective.

    C
    Not quite. As I understand it the Lesotho (Highlands) generation is by gravity as the water flows "backwards" down to the greedy in Gauteng. But the power produced is relatively small; maybe 180MW and is all used in Lesotho (anecdotally).

    Pumped storage is used from the KZN side to steal water from the Thugela and feed the greedy in Gauteng (Drakensberg) and generate peak power as well as straight pumped storage (Ingula) for power generation, mainly in peaks. All as far as I know.

    One interesting, although small, option is to use turbines in areas where pressure relief / break systems (tanks etc) are needed in pipes. Can be in pipe of a free standing plant. Power produced is modest; Pmb - Durban aqueduct peaked at around 13MW; theoretically - the system was never built as far as I know.

  12. #69
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    Default Re: Coming to your neighborhood: Radiant portable mini nuclear reactors.

    Quote Originally Posted by mudgrubber View Post
    Not quite. As I understand it the Lesotho (Highlands) generation is by gravity as the water flows "backwards" down to the greedy in Gauteng. But the power produced is relatively small; maybe 180MW and is all used in Lesotho (anecdotally).

    Pumped storage is used from the KZN side to steal water from the Thugela and feed the greedy in Gauteng (Drakensberg) and generate peak power as well as straight pumped storage (Ingula) for power generation, mainly in peaks. All as far as I know.

    One interesting, although small, option is to use turbines in areas where pressure relief / break systems (tanks etc) are needed in pipes. Can be in pipe of a free standing plant. Power produced is modest; Pmb - Durban aqueduct peaked at around 13MW; theoretically - the system was never built as far as I know.
    As a student, I visited those pump/generator rooms, during the construction phase. They were blasted out of solid rock inside the mountain, and large enough for the Carlton Tower to fit inside.

  13. #70
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    Default Re: Coming to your neighborhood: Radiant portable mini nuclear reactors.

    Iím not sure what we using here in Dubai, think itís a combination of gas and nuclear. But what ever it is, itís more stable than a grannies pacemaker. Moved houses a few months ago, went to shutdown my internet router, said uptime was 19 months and some days! And I think that reboot was a firmware upgrade!

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