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Thread: Landy vs Bakkie

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Landy vs Bakkie

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom13 View Post
    Sadly the front of the GoNow also did what it was supposed to: crumble when it hits a hard object...
    This. If the nose doesn't crumple, the occupants will. In this case the people seem fine, thankfully.
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    Default Re: Landy vs Bakkie

    I'm fairly certain that most other vehicles would look exactly the same as the GoNow.

    The Hilux a couple of weeks ago on the forum was written off after hitting a fairly thin tree at low speed. But it is designed to do exactly that.

    https://www.4x4community.co.za/forum...d.php?t=347424
    Quote Originally Posted by JanB View Post
    This. If the nose doesn't crumple, the occupants will. In this case the people seem fine, thankfully.
    ....

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    Default Re: Landy vs Bakkie

    It would be interesting to see if there is any damage to the Landy's towbar mounting points or chassis. All that energy did not just disappear into thin air.
    ....

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    Default Re: Landy vs Bakkie

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom13 View Post
    It would be interesting to see if there is any damage to the Landy's towbar mounting points or chassis. All that energy did not just disappear into thin air.
    I think most if it was dissipated in the bakkies crumple zone.

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    Default Re: Landy vs Bakkie

    Quote Originally Posted by JanB View Post
    This. If the nose doesn't crumple, the occupants will. In this case the people seem fine, thankfully.
    Thats my feeling as well. It is difficult to tell from the pics, if the passenger zone deformed much? One of the NCAP tests is how little deformation there is around the "safety call" and if the doors can still be opened after the accident.

    My personal view is that the landy performed pretty poorly and I would be supprised if there was no whiplash for the occupant? Having said that it is potentially a 7 seater, so they may provide for little to no crumple zone in the rear, on the assumption that someone may be sitting there where it should be crumpling? That just means a lot of energy transfer to the vehicle in the case of a rear end shunt like this.

    Just be glad it was not some 60 vehicle with those seats that don't even reach your shoulders and no head rest. If that were the case, the occupant would probably have a broken neck. Safety has come a long way in recent times.

    Glad everyone survived.

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    Default Re: Landy vs Bakkie

    Quote Originally Posted by stephenplumb View Post

    My personal view is that the landy performed pretty poorly

    .
    Nou verstaan ek nie !

    About the chassis.
    well worldwide the safety of Discoveries 3 & 4 is well documented how well they come out of any accident and especially the occupants.
    Just also remember the Discoveries 3 & 4 have the strongest rigid chassis of any 4 wd on the market, it has a 6 ton lateral winching strength, far higher than any other manufacturer.
    Daai stamp van agter het niks , zero , boggerol skade aan daai D4 se onderstel gedoen.

    O yes the towbar is part of the chassis, not an after thought.
    Last edited by Koos Best; 2021/10/18 at 03:58 PM.
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  12. #27
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    Default Re: Landy vs Bakkie

    If you know the Disco 4 you will know that there is virtually two chassis one ontop of the other. So it’s a Sherman Tank. So when you take of the top cap you are left with plenty steel…. plus two massive counter weights. Hit a Disco 4 from the back and you’re in trouble.


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    Default Re: Landy vs Bakkie

    Notice zero crumple zone. All in the top?

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    Default Re: Landy vs Bakkie

    What are the counter weights you mentioned?
    Quote Originally Posted by Zapiture View Post
    If you know the Disco 4 you will know that there is virtually two chassis one ontop of the other. So it’s a Sherman Tank. So when you take of the top cap you are left with plenty steel…. plus two massive counter weights. Hit a Disco 4 from the back and you’re in trouble.


    Photo borrowed.
    ....

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    Default Re: Landy vs Bakkie

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom13 View Post
    What are the counter weights you mentioned?
    Harmonic balancers.

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  18. #31
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    Default Re: Landy vs Bakkie

    While googling the harmonic dampers, mentioned above, I got a couple of hits about other D3's and D4's that were rear ended with minimal damage to the Discoveries. Impressive to say the least.
    ....

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    Default Re: Landy vs Bakkie

    Wondered what that is when i tried removing the towbar on my d3. After this thread it can stay on
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    Default Re: Landy vs Bakkie

    My 1st car was a Golf 1 GT. Coming out of Johannesburg one day we stopped under a bridge, in the emergency lane as it started to hail. When it was clear to carry on, I just started moving when another car rear ended me. Fortunately it was not half as bad as the bakkie above. But when the lady's (who drove the other car) husband saw her car and my car, he could not believe the minimal damage on my car compared to the front of her car.

    Maybe a combination of the front crumble zones and forces on the car coming from the rear into another pushing it forward. The scientists amongst us may have a better answer on this. I just started to move forward when it happened. I'm not sure if the Disco was moving or standing still when it happened.
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    Default Re: Landy vs Bakkie

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam vd Merwe View Post
    Wondered what that is when i tried removing the towbar on my d3. After this thread it can stay on
    Taking them off creates big chaos. Your ride will be worse than an ox wagon.

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    Default Re: Landy vs Bakkie

    I actually wonder if the back is usually stronger on cars though.

    Car rear ended my focus, I had a few scrapes, other car had radiator damage.

    Taxi rear ended the bmw, taxi had much more damage than the bmw. Visually, not monetary.

    I would think sides and front crumple zones are bigger perhaps
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    Default Re: Landy vs Bakkie

    Quote Originally Posted by lizardalpha View Post
    I actually wonder if the back is usually stronger on cars though.

    Car rear ended my focus, I had a few scrapes, other car had radiator damage.

    Taxi rear ended the bmw, taxi had much more damage than the bmw. Visually, not monetary.

    I would think sides and front crumple zones are bigger perhaps
    Suspect so. I remember something from back at Varsity where the one lecturer mentioned the last place you want to crumble a car is in the rear where your fuel tank is. This was 20 years ago though so it is very likely I have it all wrong.

    Reading and seeing how many people climb out of a D3/4 with minimal to no injuries where the occupants of the other car is either on his way to ICU or morgue I wouldn't be to fussed about the "lack" of deformation.

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  25. #37
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    Default Re: Landy vs Bakkie

    Did not think a Discovery is so strong.

    Saw a couple of similar things on Cruisers but show that a Landy is also build to work offroad.

    Some similar Cruiser bashings but all with aftermarket bumpers.
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    Last edited by PierredW; 2021/10/25 at 08:47 AM.

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    Default Re: Landy vs Bakkie

    Quote Originally Posted by Koos Best View Post
    Nou verstaan ek nie !

    About the chassis.
    well worldwide the safety of Discoveries 3 & 4 is well documented how well they come out of any accident and especially the occupants.
    Just also remember the Discoveries 3 & 4 have the strongest rigid chassis of any 4 wd on the market, it has a 6 ton lateral winching strength, far higher than any other manufacturer.
    Daai stamp van agter het niks , zero , boggerol skade aan daai D4 se onderstel gedoen.

    O yes the towbar is part of the chassis, not an after thought.
    Collision design is about dissipating energy in a controlled manner so that the energy the occupants are exposed to is lowered to levels the Human Body can survive.

    There is nothing heroic about getting out of a defender that is mildly scratched and crowing about how safe it is when your body was exposed to the full force of the impact. A human body does not seem to do well with forces around the 100g level, and so any amount of impact reduction that will lower that maximum impulsive force gives you a much higher chance of survival.

    That impact reduction comes as the expense of a totalled vehicle as the impact force is dissipated over whatever distance it reasonably can be. In the case of a frontal impact, the engine compartment provides around 1m of space to dissipate energy. Vehicles that are good at surviving frontal impacts will completely destroy themselves in a frontal impact, but will use much higher strength steel in the passenger cabin region to limit deformation in that area.

    The lack of deformation in the Landy points to the fact that it is incapable of absorbing energy from the rear, meaning that all impact forces are passed straight to the occupants. There is limited scope to absorb energy from that direction given that the rear seats, if occupied, don't permit much space to absorb energy, but this is a flaw, not a feature. A sedan with a boot would have performed much better in that sort of impact.

    A block of steel can survive immense forces, and will emerge from impact damage with only minor scuffs in most instances, but it will do nothing to dissipate energy, so saying how the body can survive high winching forces is completely irrelevant to the survival of the occupants.

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    Default Re: Landy vs Bakkie

    Quote Originally Posted by stephenplumb View Post
    Collision design is about dissipating energy in a controlled manner so that the energy the occupants are exposed to is lowered to levels the Human Body can survive. There is nothing heroic about getting out of a defender that is mildly scratched and crowing about how safe it is when your body was exposed to the full force of the impact. A human body does not seem to do well with forces around the 100g level, and so any amount of impact reduction that will lower that maximum impulsive force gives you a much higher chance of survival. That impact reduction comes as the expense of a totalled vehicle as the impact force is dissipated over whatever distance it reasonably can be. In the case of a frontal impact, the engine compartment provides around 1m of space to dissipate energy. Vehicles that are good at surviving frontal impacts will completely destroy themselves in a frontal impact, but will use much higher strength steel in the passenger cabin region to limit deformation in that area. The lack of deformation in the Landy points to the fact that it is incapable of absorbing energy from the rear, meaning that all impact forces are passed straight to the occupants. There is limited scope to absorb energy from that direction given that the rear seats, if occupied, don't permit much space to absorb energy, but this is a flaw, not a feature. A sedan with a boot would have performed much better in that sort of impact. A block of steel can survive immense forces, and will emerge from impact damage with only minor scuffs in most instances, but it will do nothing to dissipate energy, so saying how the body can survive high winching forces is completely irrelevant to the survival of the occupants.
    Really I'd much rather be in the Disco than in that chinese bakkie.
    Last edited by TwinDisco; 2021/10/25 at 09:21 AM.
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    Default Re: Landy vs Bakkie

    Quote Originally Posted by stephenplumb View Post
    Collision design is about dissipating energy in a controlled manner so that the energy the occupants are exposed to is lowered to levels the Human Body can survive.

    There is nothing heroic about getting out of a defender that is mildly scratched and crowing about how safe it is when your body was exposed to the full force of the impact. A human body does not seem to do well with forces around the 100g level, and so any amount of impact reduction that will lower that maximum impulsive force gives you a much higher chance of survival.

    That impact reduction comes as the expense of a totalled vehicle as the impact force is dissipated over whatever distance it reasonably can be. In the case of a frontal impact, the engine compartment provides around 1m of space to dissipate energy. Vehicles that are good at surviving frontal impacts will completely destroy themselves in a frontal impact, but will use much higher strength steel in the passenger cabin region to limit deformation in that area.

    The lack of deformation in the Landy points to the fact that it is incapable of absorbing energy from the rear, meaning that all impact forces are passed straight to the occupants. There is limited scope to absorb energy from that direction given that the rear seats, if occupied, don't permit much space to absorb energy, but this is a flaw, not a feature. A sedan with a boot would have performed much better in that sort of impact.

    A block of steel can survive immense forces, and will emerge from impact damage with only minor scuffs in most instances, but it will do nothing to dissipate energy, so saying how the body can survive high winching forces is completely irrelevant to the survival of the occupants.
    Biggest load of bull dust ever.. you go tell this to a driver in an 18 wheeler.
    The Disco weighs 3 tons, or close enough, so there is little force transferal.. the force goes to the lighter vehicle

    https://www.news24.com/news24/southa...langa-20211025
    Last edited by Hedgehog; 2021/10/25 at 09:26 AM.
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