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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Debt review arrangement ??

    Quote Originally Posted by rian skip View Post
    Willem (and apologies to Peter for the hijack of the thread),

    The Debt Review process does not work like that.

    There is an agreement between the consumer and all Credit Providers, drafted by a Debt Counsellor, whereby the Credit Providers accepts the offer of the consumer.

    This agreement is then presented to court, and if approved by the court, it is a binding agreement between all parties.
    I understand that, it is almost like the old administration orders one could get in the Magistrate's Court. What I am saying is that no creditor is obliged to accept the offer from the debtor, nor should they feel compelled to do so. They are entitled to mitigate their risks, and if their risk analysis indicates that it would be better to find an alternative tenant (in this instance), then so be it.
    Cheers
    Willem Greyling

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  2. #22
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    Default Re: Debt review arrangement ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Caracal View Post
    Please dont tar everyone with the same brush. Just because someone is in debt review doesn't mean they are unable to manage their finances.
    Well, it kinda does mean pretty much that. Doesn't mean they are bad people, just that for whatever reason they stuffed up, whether they over indebted themselves, or they lost their job, but to the point, it means that they cannot manage their debt, regardless of the reason behind it.
    Last edited by lizardalpha; 2021/10/14 at 10:34 AM.
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  3. #23
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    Default Re: Debt review arrangement ??

    I am not debating how a land lord should mitigate risk.

    However, I cannot agree with this statement:

    Quote Originally Posted by MANDREAS View Post
    What I am saying is that no creditor is obliged to accept the offer from the debtor, nor should they feel compelled to do so.
    The National Credit Act (NCA) states in S86(5)b:
    "(5) A consumer who applies to a debt counsellor, and each credit provider contemplated in
    subsection (4) (b), must
    (a) ....
    (b) participate in good faith in the review and in any negotiations designed to result in responsible debt re-arrangement."

    The Debt Review process entails that the consumer makes an offer to the Credit Providers (via the Debt Counsellor) - see Section 86(8)a and b of the NCA.

    The Credit Provider can (1) accept the offer, (2) make a counter proposal or (3) reject the offer.

    The case then goes to court, where the accepted offer is confirmed, or the counter proposal is confirmed or the magistrate may make another determination - Section 87 of the NCA.

    This court order is then binding all all parties.

    If the consumer fails to adhere to the court order, then the Credit Provider can pursue the other enforcement action under the NCA.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Debt review arrangement ??

    Quote Originally Posted by rian skip View Post
    I am not debating how a land lord should mitigate risk.

    However, I cannot agree with this statement:



    The National Credit Act (NCA) states in S86(5)b:
    "(5) A consumer who applies to a debt counsellor, and each credit provider contemplated in
    subsection (4) (b), must
    (a) ....
    (b) participate in good faith in the review and in any negotiations designed to result in responsible debt re-arrangement."

    The Debt Review process entails that the consumer makes an offer to the Credit Providers (via the Debt Counsellor) - see Section 86(8)a and b of the NCA.

    The Credit Provider can (1) accept the offer, (2) make a counter proposal or (3) reject the offer.

    The case then goes to court, where the accepted offer is confirmed, or the counter proposal is confirmed or the magistrate may make another determination - Section 87 of the NCA.

    This court order is then binding all all parties.

    If the consumer fails to adhere to the court order, then the Credit Provider can pursue the other enforcement action under the NCA.
    "Must participate in good faith" not "must accept".
    Cheers
    Willem Greyling

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  5. #25
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    Default Re: Debt review arrangement ??

    Quote Originally Posted by rian skip View Post
    I am not debating how a land lord should mitigate risk.

    However, I cannot agree with this statement:



    The National Credit Act (NCA) states in S86(5)b:
    "(5) A consumer who applies to a debt counsellor, and each credit provider contemplated in
    subsection (4) (b), must
    (a) ....
    (b) participate in good faith in the review and in any negotiations designed to result in responsible debt re-arrangement."

    The Debt Review process entails that the consumer makes an offer to the Credit Providers (via the Debt Counsellor) - see Section 86(8)a and b of the NCA.

    The Credit Provider can (1) accept the offer, (2) make a counter proposal or (3) reject the offer.

    The case then goes to court, where the accepted offer is confirmed, or the counter proposal is confirmed or the magistrate may make another determination - Section 87 of the NCA.

    This court order is then binding all all parties.

    If the consumer fails to adhere to the court order, then the Credit Provider can pursue the other enforcement action under the NCA.
    Are Creditor and Credit Provider the same?
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  6. #26
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    Default Re: Debt review arrangement ??

    Quote Originally Posted by MANDREAS View Post
    "Must participate in good faith" not "must accept".

    Correct, but they do accept it, that way they get moneys in.
    Sometimes they will try and bully you but don't give in.
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  7. #27
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    Default Re: Debt review arrangement ??

    Quote Originally Posted by rian skip View Post
    I am not debating how a land lord should mitigate risk.

    However, I cannot agree with this statement:



    The National Credit Act (NCA) states in S86(5)b:
    "(5) A consumer who applies to a debt counsellor, and each credit provider contemplated in
    subsection (4) (b), must
    (a) ....
    (b) participate in good faith in the review and in any negotiations designed to result in responsible debt re-arrangement."

    The Debt Review process entails that the consumer makes an offer to the Credit Providers (via the Debt Counsellor) - see Section 86(8)a and b of the NCA.

    Surely this regulation applies to current creditors to whom a debt is owed and not to potential creditors. The regulations would differentiate with a sub regulation if it included potential future creditors.

    The Credit Provider can (1) accept the offer, (2) make a counter proposal or (3) reject the offer.

    The case then goes to court, where the accepted offer is confirmed, or the counter proposal is confirmed or the magistrate may make another determination - Section 87 of the NCA.

    This court order is then binding all all parties.

    If the consumer fails to adhere to the court order, then the Credit Provider can pursue the other enforcement action under the NCA.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Debt review arrangement ??

    Peter,

    If this is a person who is just a victim of the poor economy and lost their job, didn't have savings and couldn't pay their debts: find out if they lost their job due to numbers or to poor performance. If due to numbers, go for it. If due to poor performance, you know all you need to know and don't let to them.

    If this is a person who got in over their head because they didn't control the amount of debt they entered into, don't engage with business with them.

    If you can't acertain this, excercise good risk management and find a different tenant. You are a retiree and not in a position to go down the path of non-paying tenant.

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  10. #29
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    Default Re: Debt review arrangement ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Caracal View Post
    May I ask, how does a lay person such as yourself get access to a third parties credit record?
    With their written permission which is part of my lease application form.
    Then a work through an agency which provides the report covering their own database as well as the likes of, and including TPN, Experian, Transunion, etc.
    Peter Hutchison
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  11. #30
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    Default Re: Debt review arrangement ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Half-Pint View Post
    Peter, without looking at the legal implications, considering the difficulties in evicting a tenant why would you want to take on someone who has already shown an inability to manage their finances? Rather lose a month's rental looking for a better quality tenant than lose a year's rental when you need to evict the person?
    Because I am a "caring" person.
    Having been through hard times myself at certain stages in my life I believe in giving people another chance.
    However I am quite careful in matters financial (Once bitten, twice shy).
    So call me a softy.
    But I do not want to take stupid risks.
    Fortunately this issue relates to our smallest unit so the rental amount is also the smallest.
    If it was a bigger unit with a higher rental amount involved I would certainly turn down the application.

    Besides there are "ways and means" - I won't say more.
    I will help you; BUT DO NOT let me down. (Eish !)
    Peter Hutchison
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  13. #31
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    Default Re: Debt review arrangement ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Estee View Post
    There are specialised businesses and individuals you can check this for you, including if they own any businesses, bank accounts held, balances, vehicles including boats, trailers, quads, caravans, if they are registered to them, a spouse, trust fund or other family member etc.

    I use these services if I need to investigate employees on behalf of a client (means test) and have uncovered quite a few cases where an employee lives larger than their stated means would allow. Some can even do forensics on electronic devices.

    There are varying costs for the level of check you require.
    Thanks Sean, yes, I can even check for criminal records and search the deeds office records etc.
    I have been renting out property for 15 years now (approx.) but this is the first time I have had an application from a person under debt review.
    You can also get biometric proof of identity to avoid (hopefully) identity theft cases !!
    Peter Hutchison
    Answering the call of the wild is just so much beter than answering the telephone.
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  14. #32
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    Default Re: Debt review arrangement ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Petri Oosthuizen View Post
    Peter, I'd be hestitant to lease to that debt review tennant.

    Rather then let the "co - tennant" lease on his/her name, or just dont do it.

    If the DR Tennant defaults on her lease payments to you, and you acually knew she was under DR, you may have a VERY hard time

    1) Getting even a portion of payments, and

    2) Evicting her

    Personally, I just wouldnt do it.

    Nice Guys...........you know the story
    IF I proceed it will ONLY be on a joint and severally liable contract with both the proposed occupant / Lessee and the co-lessee.
    Peter Hutchison
    Answering the call of the wild is just so much beter than answering the telephone.
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  16. #33
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    Default Re: Debt review arrangement ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Swannie1960 View Post
    Peter, the main thing is for you to minimise your potential risk. Estee has given some good advice. Stay objective and don't let personal feelings guide you.

    I can confirm that I currently have a tenant which is under financial administration. He doesn't qualify for credit anywhere but he hasn't defaulted on a payment at all.

    So, one has to look at the merits of every case separately.
    I guess this is what I am doing right here, right now.
    Peter Hutchison
    Answering the call of the wild is just so much beter than answering the telephone.
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  17. #34
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    Default Re: Debt review arrangement ??

    Lexis Windeed has helped us previously with various checks
    There is no task too simple for some people to complicate !



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  18. #35
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    Default Re: Debt review arrangement ??

    Interestingly on news24 article how quickly things can go south between tenant and landlord.


    https://www.news24.com/news24/southa...-rent-20211014


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  19. #36
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    Default Re: Debt review arrangement ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Karol View Post
    Interestingly on news24 article how quickly things can go south between tenant and landlord.


    https://www.news24.com/news24/southa...-rent-20211014
    Mmmmm, in my humble opinion a case could be argued for self defense.
    Just saying ....
    Peter Hutchison
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  20. #37
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    Default Re: Debt review arrangement ??

    Emmie L,

    I presume your statement / opinion is the following:
    "Surely this regulation applies to current creditors to whom a debt is owed and not to potential creditors. The regulations would differentiate with a sub regulation if it included potential future creditors."

    The NCA stipulates that when a consumer applies for Debt Review, then he/she cannot enter into any new credit agreements. This will applies for the duration that the Consumer is under Debt Review, i.e. until he/she has repaid all his/her debt (often this takes up to 5 years).

  21. #38
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    Default Re: Debt review arrangement ??

    Peter - morning to you Guys. Die verdomde honde het my wakker geblaf.

    I'm gonna say this straight.

    You are good People - I've spent time with you Guys at your house, and enjoyed coffee and rusks with you.

    Good People ALWAYS want to help, they listen, they try to understand, and they have this wholesome, hearty "softness" in them. I know, my own Wife is also one of them.

    Good People make the World a great place, I'm absolutely CRAZY about them.

    Unfortunately, I've seen good People lose out just because of this.

    I'm sure you know this, but just a reminder again - do NOT let your "goodness" dictate what you decide here.

    Please do see this Post in the (very) positive way I'm typing it.

    Groete Daar!!!!
    Last edited by Petri Oosthuizen; 2021/10/15 at 04:10 AM.

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  23. #39
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    Default Re: Debt review arrangement ??

    I was under dept review for 5 years and taken out a new cell contract
    i rent a place for the period
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  24. #40
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    Default Re: Debt review arrangement ??

    And did the process change how you manage your finances Frans? Was the professional assistance helpful?

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