View Poll Results: Which do you think is better for pure 4x4 driving, nothing to do with onroad driving

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  • I think diesel is better for pure offroad driving.

    47 56.63%
  • I think petrol is better for pure offroad driving

    36 43.37%
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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Diesel v Petrol , Yip another one. but wait, hear me out.

    Quote Originally Posted by DC Polokwane View Post
    I believe it was Grips that once said, if you want low down torq then you get a diesel, if you want high rev power then you get a petrol but if you want both then you get a petrol V8
    That is very true. Had the 5.7 V8 Ranger and V8 Cruiser on the same trip.
    I love the the low down torque of the V8 Cruiser but unfortunately the V8 Ranger is better.

    Have been mentioned in the thread a few times throttle response.
    One of the big drawbacks on the V8 diesel.

    Back to the FJ in Person I think it does have a perfect combination, of power, torture, weight and gear ratios.

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  3. #22
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    Default Re: Diesel v Petrol , Yip another one. but wait, hear me out.

    Quote Originally Posted by RoelfleRoux View Post
    There is only one thing that makes a car go forward, and that is kW. Torque is only one of the variables in the kW formula (kW = Nm x rpm x konstant).
    The interesting aspect of your post is that the gear difference between the two cars are not material. If their wheels are the same size and turning at the same speed, then similar engine kW output (in different gears) will result in identical wheel torque (assuming similar losses). The the car with the highest engine kW will have the highest wheel torque.
    So the FJ doesn't really benefit from running in a lower gear, except for the fact that it requires the lower gear to enable the higher engine revs required to pump out the kW.
    It all comes down to engine kW and NOTHING else matters.
    Comments like "kW is how fast you hit a wall and Nm is how far you can push it" or "Nm is how fast you accelerate and kW is how fast you can go" are all just rubbish.
    The Prado is a perfect example of how not to do it. Toyota decided to save money and effort and couldn't bother to change the gear and/or diff ratios between the petrol and diesel models. The petrol thus runs at horribly low revs, thus low kWs, and there are so many posts where owners complain about them dropping 2 gears for even small hills. The box has to do it to get some kWs out of the engine.

    YES!
    I fully agree. Torque is nice but it's the Kw's that matter. Kw's is the rate at which your vehicle will develop that torque

    As far as Pajero vs FJ goes I've been blessed to have had several Pajero's and an FJ.
    The FJ is the absolute boss on the dunes and only a Jeep Wrangler can compete.
    In the sand in Bots I loved the 3.2 Pajero diesel SWB and still miss this car

  4. #23
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    Default Re: Diesel v Petrol , Yip another one. but wait, hear me out.

    Not good video quality, not the best example. Ignus with Little Patrol up a long spun out dune at Waterford. Listen to his throttle control on the 5.0l Petrol v8. This you cannot do with a Diesel Engine.


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  6. #24
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    Default Re: Diesel v Petrol , Yip another one. but wait, hear me out.

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    Power to weight yes. But your power delivery is just as important. A 600cc thumper bike will struggle in sand but a 300cc 2 stroke won't.
    Like this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=issuW7HdZbY
    2002 Hilux 2700i(facelift) 4x4 DC
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    Default Re: Diesel v Petrol , Yip another one. but wait, hear me out.

    Throttle control is very important. The Yellow FJ that was here had a trottle controller in and he struggled at first with his throttle control untill he dialed the controller back and used his foot instead. His FJ reacted almost like a diesel with the controller turned up.
    Jors Malan
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  9. #26
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    Default Re: Diesel v Petrol , Yip another one. but wait, hear me out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bex View Post

    Christo, we definitely need to meet up on a dune some day, and sommer more about crawling and I have a boulder section here that is a possible extention of B-trail that I have not yet dared to enter, but it needs to be explored.
    Jors I would love to join you guys. Have done some serious rock trails but does not see myself as a very good rock crawler.
    Think you need guys like Andrew to help on the boulder trip

  10. #27
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    Default Re: Diesel v Petrol , Yip another one. but wait, hear me out.

    You can't turn the traction control off on the pajero (only esp) without an aftermarket mod, and that is bad news for sand.
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  12. #28
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    Default Re: Diesel v Petrol , Yip another one. but wait, hear me out.

    Jakes Louw
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    Default Re: Diesel v Petrol , Yip another one. but wait, hear me out.

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    Those CR250s was something else. And if I remember correctly you got them up to 500 2 stroke?
    Wicus Diedericks

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    Default Re: Diesel v Petrol , Yip another one. but wait, hear me out.

    Back to OP

    And Gearing

    Work out the final gear reduction at the same speed of those vehicles starting the difficult sand dune incline and you will see the answer popping up......
    Last edited by Dungbeetle; 2021/10/14 at 01:52 PM.
    Donít blame yourself over past mistakes. Itís like driving down the N1 while looking in the rear view mirror only.

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  16. #31
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    Default Re: Diesel v Petrol , Yip another one. but wait, hear me out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wicd View Post
    Those CR250s was something else. And if I remember correctly you got them up to 500 2 stroke?
    Aye, I've not ridden a Kawi or Honda 500 2 stroke but have ridden the Yam 490 and Maico 490 and plenty Husky 2 smokes. Demons but only due to the power band as my current Husky 501 makes an impression but very smoothly. The 500 2 strokes with paddle tyres were real demons in the dunes. As Grips noted, for equal ability it comes down to power:weight then tyres. With equal power:weight I suspect a quad will out perform a bike due to the tyres.

    Ditto for 4x4's.

  17. #32
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    Default Re: Diesel v Petrol , Yip another one. but wait, hear me out.

    There was nothing that stayed with my IT490 in the Nam dunes. Bring your Banshees and other quads.
    Jakes Louw
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  18. #33
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    Default Re: Diesel v Petrol , Yip another one. but wait, hear me out.

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    There was nothing that stayed with my IT490 in the Nam dunes. Bring your Banshees and other quads.
    I do agree. We have had them at Witsand before it were a Nature Reserve.

    Also the 2 wheelers did better at Goerapan and Waterford.

    I also need to add that the modern off road 4 stroke 2 wheelers will put the old 490's in shame

  19. #34
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    Default Re: Diesel v Petrol , Yip another one. but wait, hear me out.

    Quote Originally Posted by grips View Post

    I also need to add that the modern off road 4 stroke 2 wheelers will put the old 490's in shame
    Oh I agree, but then we are talking about high rev racing 4 strokes.

    That's like comparing an F1 engine to a SBC.
    Jakes Louw
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  20. #35
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    Default Diesel v Petrol , Yip another one. but wait, hear me out.

    Quote Originally Posted by DC Polokwane View Post
    I believe it was Grips that once said, if you want low down torq then you get a diesel, if you want high rev power then you get a petrol but if you want both then you get a petrol V8
    Especially a 4.7 Jeep Grand Cherokee WJ or a 5.7 WK! No standard vehicle comes close to them in the sand and dunes.
    Mine: 2018 Ford Ranger 3.2 4x4 A/T Wildtrak (Stock standard)
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  21. #36
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    Default Re: Diesel v Petrol , Yip another one. but wait, hear me out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeeper View Post
    Especially a 4.7 Jeep Grand Cherokee WJ or a 5.7 WK! No standard vehicle comes close to them in the sand and dunes.
    So I take it you voted petrol?
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  22. #37
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    Default Re: Diesel v Petrol , Yip another one. but wait, hear me out.

    Jors, I didn't even realize this was a poll until your post above. So I have voted petrol!

    Grew up with cruisers on the farm. 4.2 cruisers in the reserve and then a v8 SC as a company vehicle. I swore by diesel. In 2018 I was due a new safari vehicle and after much persuading I got the owners to sign off on a v6 petrol cruiser. I wanted a quieter vehicle and a change. Once I got used to the difference in power delivery. I fell in love with it.

    Now with the 105 and playing in the rocks around our area, I adore it. However the 4500 EFI is a different beast at that low RPM compared to the v6.
    Mike

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  24. #38
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    Default Re: Diesel v Petrol , Yip another one. but wait, hear me out.

    Both vehicles have enough power. I personally enjoy the diesels with higher torque. Furthermore, its mostly a matter of tire pressure. I drove a diesel Pajero across the high dunes at Conception Bay, Namibia in two wheel drive, after its front universal joint gave in. Was amazing how easy the Pajero managed it.

  25. #39
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    Default Re: Diesel v Petrol , Yip another one. but wait, hear me out.

    A lot of votes for diesel, but not much comment.

    As for diesel delivering more torque, as can be seen in the thread about it the diesels only deliver more torque to the wheels in a narrow rpm range fairly low down which gives a more relaxed feel to the drive.

    Due to the higher gear ratios the petrol's, though they have less torque on the flywheel, they can get even higher torque to the wheels at very low RPM and at high RPM than the diesels.

    So if better to you means more relaxed and calmer driving and lower fuel consumption then diesel will be better.
    If outright capability is the goal you might look into the bigger petrol engines.
    Jors Malan
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  27. #40
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    Default Re: Diesel v Petrol , Yip another one. but wait, hear me out.

    Very true Jors.
    Many Torbo diesels making around 600nm have a power output lower Than 200kw.
    . Petrol NA V8's doing 600nm sits at around 300kw and a much wider rpm range.

    Diesels is nice in slow 4x4 work and towing. Than again a large petrol V8 makes a very nice tow vehicle.
    Economy is what favors diesel engines

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