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  1. #41
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    Default Re: New building - what geyser options

    At our old house in Empangeni I installed a Solar/heat pump combination(back when Escom subsidized solar installation ) Worked brilliantly, hp worked very very seldom!!
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  2. #42
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    Default Re: New building - what geyser options

    Quote Originally Posted by ralton View Post
    I am converting a garage to a flatlet and the guy that's doing my plans has indicated i need an "energy saving" geyser.

    What is your advice:
    - Solar geyser?
    - Heat pump system?
    - this new "waterwise" system?

    The water doesn't have to get very hot.. 40' should be ok..
    As far as I can see nobody has addressed the need for an “energy saving “ geyser.
    If your municipality is like ours, this is a legal requirement.

    So a simple electric geyser is out of the question.
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  3. #43
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    Default Re: New building - what geyser options

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    As far as I can see nobody has addressed the need for an “energy saving “ geyser.
    If your municipality is like ours, this is a legal requirement.

    So a simple electric geyser is out of the question.

    In my first post on the topic I did say a class B energy rated geyser or is there something else which counts as energy saving geysers?

    As far as I know energy saving geysers and even roof insulation is part of SANS codes these days, but many municipalities still ignore this.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read" - Not Mark Twain

  4. #44
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    Default Re: New building - what geyser options

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Mackay View Post
    Which geyser did you install?
    Dewpoint 12lt. 4500.00 incl pipe, regulator and connection pipes

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  6. #45
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    Default Re: New building - what geyser options

    Quote Originally Posted by bigboy529 View Post
    In my first post on the topic I did say a class B energy rated geyser or is there something else which counts as energy saving geysers?

    As far as I know energy saving geysers and even roof insulation is part of SANS codes these days, but many municipalities still ignore this.
    Law as I understand it - 50% of the energy used must not be due resistance element heating.

    So a conventional geyser as part of a Solar System, or a Heat Pump is fine. Electricity only is not.

    Gas for now is a non-event. But I wouldn't hold my breath. Sooner or late they will wake up to the fact that a gas heater is burning carbon generating and carbon based fossil fuel. Something also for the bunny huggers to consider, Gas is as bad as burning coal or diesel or petrol.
    Cheers

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    If you fly or drive to an anti-Fracking meeting, you have no business being there and you wont get my ear......

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  8. #46
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    Default Re: New building - what geyser options

    One with copper insides.

  9. #47
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    Default Re: New building - what geyser options

    Im running Gas geysers and stoves, it dropped my electricity by half

  10. #48
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    Default Re: New building - what geyser options

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    As far as I can see nobody has addressed the need for an “energy saving “ geyser.
    If your municipality is like ours, this is a legal requirement.

    So a simple electric geyser is out of the question.
    You are 100% spot on. every Council have its own rules.
    1. Depending where you at . have it checked eg in Nelson Mandela Bay Metro Region ( AKA greater Port Elizabeth) Gas is NOT accepted as alternative to conventional.

    For heating we here are only allowed Heatpump and Solar ( specific registered and approved solar) . This again also only applies to conversion to a bedroom or new built. where bedrooms / heating for persons are required and not general alterations. This is to do with you occupancy certificate. with out this you are occupying an illegal's dwelling.

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  12. #49
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    Default Re: New building - what geyser options

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Mackay View Post
    Are there any cases of this disease in SA?
    My theory is that patients are not tested for Legionaires disease. Legionella causes pneumonia. Typically an older person would end up in hospital with pneomonia and in some cases die. Most people would accept that the person died from pneomonia and nobody would test what caused it.

  13. #50
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    Default Re: New building - what geyser options

    Legionella is quite common in water. A private clinic asks for analysis of the council water as part of their new building specs. Legionella was found in the council water. (I would rather not say which municipality) It is OK if you drink it. You dont want it to vaporise in the shower and then breathe it in though.

  14. #51
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    Default Re: New building - what geyser options

    Quote Originally Posted by unrealchris View Post
    Im running Gas geysers and stoves, it dropped my electricity by half

    Did it also drop your cost by half since you are now also buying gas?
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read" - Not Mark Twain

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  16. #52
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    Default Re: New building - what geyser options

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    Law as I understand it - 50% of the energy used must not be due resistance element heating.

    So a conventional geyser as part of a Solar System, or a Heat Pump is fine. Electricity only is not.

    Gas for now is a non-event. But I wouldn't hold my breath. Sooner or late they will wake up to the fact that a gas heater is burning carbon generating and carbon based fossil fuel. Something also for the bunny huggers to consider, Gas is as bad as burning coal or diesel or petrol.
    Yes and no, I’m sure the thermal efficiency of a gas water heater far exceeds a power generation network.

  17. #53
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    Default Re: New building - what geyser options

    The problem with electric geysers is that most people, me included, never have the sacrificial anode replaced as it should be, every two years as a minimum. This is fatal for an electric geyser and as soon as insurance companies wake up to this they will not want honour claims for “burst” geysers.

    Quote Originally Posted by mudgrubber View Post
    All I can add is the pathetic lifespan I have had from electric geysers; they just creep past their warranty period and I have three in my ceiling (two buggered); all Kwikhot. Insurance covers it but there is an excess and buggeration factor.

    So, as Plunger said, and maybe for a different reason; if you go electric, try put it outside, easy to check and replace.

  18. #54
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    Default Re: New building - what geyser options

    Solar Geyser = YES YES YES!

    My fiancé stays in Harrismith for her Physiotherapy comm-serve. This winter it got around -14°C (yes MINUS 14). I showered in the morning and I had to use only the warm tap but I had warm water.

  19. #55
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    Default Re: New building - what geyser options

    My experience thus far:

    Initially started with a standard 150l geyser connected to a heat pump. In summer and when there is no load shedding it is doing its job. In winter and especially during peak water usage times, we found it to be insufficient for 4 kids, 2 adults and full time cleaner. Added a dewhot variable temp gas geyser to bypass the load shedding issue and "top-up" what the heat pump can't provide. In the colder months we go through 2 19kg cylinders a month currently going R1,100 ish.

    In my opinion it's not worth the investment and added expenses of a coc etc for infrequent use. If legislation allow, stick to a standard electric geyser. If guaranteed hot water is required, go for the instant gas geyser option.

  20. #56
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    Default Re: New building - what geyser options

    Quote Originally Posted by Petri_S View Post
    My experience thus far:

    Initially started with a standard 150l geyser connected to a heat pump. In summer and when there is no load shedding it is doing its job. In winter and especially during peak water usage times, we found it to be insufficient for 4 kids, 2 adults and full time cleaner. Added a dewhot variable temp gas geyser to bypass the load shedding issue and "top-up" what the heat pump can't provide. In the colder months we go through 2 19kg cylinders a month currently going R1,100 ish.

    In my opinion it's not worth the investment and added expenses of a coc etc for infrequent use. If legislation allow, stick to a standard electric geyser. If guaranteed hot water is required, go for the instant gas geyser option.
    What size heat pump did you use that battled in winter?
    Make

  21. #57
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    Default Re: New building - what geyser options

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexP View Post
    This is a personal experience.
    1) A solar geyser is NOT worth the money spent. I installed one at my house, and 8 years down the road, we have not even recouped a quarter of the money spent on the initial cost.
    The water is hot during the day, but cools down rapidly at night. So you need an electrical back up - which puts you back at square 1.
    No sun - No hot water.
    Stay away from Solar Beam. This company are crooks.

    I disagree - I installed solar with this house also, coincidentally, 8 years ago. Never a problem, never been touched, uses almost no electricity year round, reaches temperatures of 90 degrees C in summer and vents when too hot which is not a problem, loses less than 5 degrees C in sub-zero temperatures at night because common sense dictates you install a geyser blanket.

    Currently a 300 litre geyser after two showers and normal use went from 78 degrees C to 62 degrees C, (and rising), the temperature is set to 50 degrees C.

    With solar you do not have to run around looking for gas or replacing or remembering to always think of the geyser or who is going to flush a toilet.

    You are not subject to load shedding if it is correctly used and set.

    A properly designed solar geyser with a Geyser Wise unit is an install and forget.


    You cannot buy a Rolls Royce Silver Shadow for the price of a bicycle.

  22. #58
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    Default Re: New building - what geyser options

    Quote Originally Posted by ekkekan View Post
    What size heat pump did you use that battled in winter?
    Make
    Its not the size or make of h pump in this case ,but rather the size of the geyser. Its asking too much to cater for seven people. Obviously how they use there water will dictate how much hot water they need.

  23. #59
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    Default Re: New building - what geyser options

    Quote Originally Posted by plunger View Post
    Its not the size or make of h pump in this case ,but rather the size of the geyser. Its asking too much to cater for seven people. Obviously how they use there water will dictate how much hot water they need.
    Using at least 50 % energy from a sustainable source (not ESKOM) to heat water is not a city requirement it is a SANS 10400 Part XA requirement.
    Gas heating is not a sustainable resource.
    Although Heatpumps are up to 3x more efficient than the electric element in a typical geyser it is very slow and it is still using electricity?
    To make up for this disadvantage you need a much bigger volume water cylinder that will allow the heatpump to work for more hours during a day to build capacity because it cannot repond quickly to a sudden inflow of cold water.
    A 150l geyser would not be sufficient storage for a heat pump.
    Heatpumps also struggles to extract enough heat out of the surrounding air (..assuming it is an air to water heatpump..) to heat the geyser during the coldest weeks / months of the year when the incomming water is also colder.
    During those cold winter days supplemental electric or solar heating would be required.
    The same volume argument applies to solar water heating installations.
    Because the solar panels can not heat up cold water that flows into the tank at night the electric thermostat (if allowed to) will switch on the electric element and heat the water up to the geyers set point.
    If the electric elements thermostat is allowed turn on the element the moment it senses a drop in the tanks temperature at night it will defeat the main objective of saving electricity.
    To prevent this from happening you need to store a much bigger volume of hot water that will allow you sufficient hot water even after its been diluted and a GeyserWise type of controller to allow you work out if and when during a 24hr period or season the electric element is required to allow the occupants to have sufficient hotwater.
    Just maintaining the setpoint heat in a geyser 24hrs / day during the coldest times of the year require a substantial amount of additional energy.
    To avoid the long term maintenance hassel associated with a typical water / solar panel system I am of the opinion that a PV system that supplies electricity to the element in a geyser that have sufficient volume will achieve the same objective as long as it is also controlled by a programmable timer.

  24. #60
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    Default Re: New building - what geyser options

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawid Rabie View Post
    Using at least 50 % energy from a sustainable source (not ESKOM) to heat water is not a city requirement it is a SANS 10400 Part XA requirement.
    Gas heating is not a sustainable resource.
    Although Heatpumps are up to 3x more efficient than the electric element in a typical geyser it is very slow and it is still using electricity?
    To make up for this disadvantage you need a much bigger volume water cylinder that will allow the heatpump to work for more hours during a day to build capacity because it cannot repond quickly to a sudden inflow of cold water.
    A 150l geyser would not be sufficient storage for a heat pump.
    Heatpumps also struggles to extract enough heat out of the surrounding air (..assuming it is an air to water heatpump..) to heat the geyser during the coldest weeks / months of the year when the incomming water is also colder.
    During those cold winter days supplemental electric or solar heating would be required.
    The same volume argument applies to solar water heating installations.
    Because the solar panels can not heat up cold water that flows into the tank at night the electric thermostat (if allowed to) will switch on the electric element and heat the water up to the geyers set point.
    If the electric elements thermostat is allowed turn on the element the moment it senses a drop in the tanks temperature at night it will defeat the main objective of saving electricity.
    To prevent this from happening you need to store a much bigger volume of hot water that will allow you sufficient hot water even after its been diluted and a GeyserWise type of controller to allow you work out if and when during a 24hr period or season the electric element is required to allow the occupants to have sufficient hotwater.
    Just maintaining the setpoint heat in a geyser 24hrs / day during the coldest times of the year require a substantial amount of additional energy.
    To avoid the long term maintenance hassel associated with a typical water / solar panel system I am of the opinion that a PV system that supplies electricity to the element in a geyser that have sufficient volume will achieve the same objective as long as it is also controlled by a programmable timer.
    Dear Sir, please don't take this badly or personally.

    I am sorry but try as I may I just cant read or absorb that.

    Sorry, genuinely sorry, maybe I am just doff..,,,,
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD - PROFFESIONAL DUMBASS
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    If you fly or drive to an anti-Fracking meeting, you have no business being there and you wont get my ear......

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