Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 45
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    58
    Thanked: 0

    Default Radiator motor on a switch ?

    I am about to reinstall my radiatior fan motors.

    I have some questions i hope to get some out of the box thinking advice with
    ?

    1.What would be the easiest way to put them on a manual switch ?

    And also these fans have 2 plugs each.

    One plug is definately the 12 volt plug i tested by putting power to it and the motor switched on, there was just a slight delay before switching on.

    But what is the other plug's purpose, its wires is thinner.(could it somehow be used to trigger the motor on and off ?)

    2. My engine bay is cramped, and i cannot get the firewall hole to put wires through it.

    Is there an easier way, doesn't have to be perfectly neatly done to get the wire from the engine into the cabin ?

    At this stage i am so desperate to switch on the motors manually that i am considering putting a switch on the weel well. And climb out the car to switch it on when in bottleneck traffic as the motor heats up.
    Last edited by stumpo; 2021/09/17 at 09:16 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Gaborone, Botswana
    Age
    58
    Posts
    5,599
    Thanked: 1789

    Default Re: Radiator motor on a switch ?

    Many years ago when I did electric fans on my Nissan, I used a thermal switch and a relay. If you want the fans to come on earlier, get one that switches at a lower temperature.

    Edit: Or get an adjustable thermal switch. https://hot4cold.co.za/products/adju...ermal-switche/

    .
    Last edited by KobusDJ; 2021/09/17 at 09:44 AM.
    Kobus

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Garsfontein
    Age
    44
    Posts
    2,514
    Thanked: 2841

    Default Re: Radiator motor on a switch ?

    Manual Switch

    Putting them on manual switch should be relatively easy. There are two gotchas you are going to have to consider.

    1: I presume they currently switch on automatically when the motor reaches a specific temperature. You want to keep this part of the setup intact. ie: You do not want to replaced the wiring that automatically switches on the fan.
    2: You cannot just rely on a switch as the fan amps may be too high for this. You are going to have to get a relay and wire the fan through the relay. I was considering drawing a circuit diagram, but then I found a nice easy how-to on https://www.cherokeeforum.com/f51/ri...-e-fan-212243/, I've included the image / circuit below.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	circuit.png 
Views:	108 
Size:	143.9 KB 
ID:	630168

    Fan Pinouts

    I really have no idea what vehicle this is, or what the fan pin-outs are. But off the top of my head, two options.

    1: Several fans have to inputs. One is low speed, and one is highspeed. And do not think this is the option though (as the wire is thinner).
    2: Since the wire is thinner, I presume it is a sender wire. ie: It will feedback to ECU when it is running. Or raise a warning if it is not running.

    To determine whether this is a sender wire, measure the resistance and DC V across the thin wire and earth with a multimeter with the fan off. Then do the same with the fan on. If there is a difference in either with the fan running or off, I presume it is a sender wire.

    Wiring through Firewall

    I would highly recommend that you run the wiring through the firewall. It is normally a pain in the derriere, but it is the best way to do it. Furthermore, please make sure that any additional wiring is properly fused (as close to the battery as possible) and properly protected (I use split-sheathing).

    I'd not recommend putting a switch in the wheel well except as a very temporary measure.

    Last Thoughts

    1: I presume you are looking at this configuration as the vehicle is over-heating. Whilst this may be a temporary solution, I would seriously recommend addressing the actual problem. Thermostat, air in the cooling system. Faulty water pump. This solution will work temporarily, but without fixing the root cause, it is postponing the inevitable.
    2: If the vehicle is over-heating, you will probably want to run the fan off a battery live as opposed to an ignition live so that you can let it run for a few minutes after switching off the vehicle to assist in cooling with the motor off. Just don't forget to switch it off ultimately, or you will have a dead battery.
    Ian de Villiers
    Nissan Patrol GRX 4.5

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to iandvl For This Useful Post:


  5. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    De Wildt
    Age
    59
    Posts
    42,744
    Thanked: 19844

    Default Re: Radiator motor on a switch ?

    Quote Originally Posted by KobusDJ View Post
    Many years ago when I did electric fans on my Nissan, I used a thermal switch and a relay. If you want the fans to come on earlier, get a one that switches at a lower temperature.

    Edit: Or get an adjustable thermal switch. https://hot4cold.co.za/products/adju...ermal-switche/

    .
    This is the correct way.
    Jakes Louw
    2012 Jeep Sahara Unlimited 3.6 V6
    Percivamus

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Centurion
    Age
    64
    Posts
    2,745
    Thanked: 1168

    Default Re: Radiator motor on a switch ?

    As it is good for the engine to reach normal temp before cooling I would consider using a piece of 5mm copper and mount such a thermostat on it and bolt to the head. This t-stat can power a spot light relay to provide power to the fan. You then don't need to have a manual switch. One can even wire the existing t-stat in parallel to this 2nd switch to drive the current fitted relay.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Location
    Centurion
    Posts
    76
    Thanked: 34

    Default Re: Radiator motor on a switch ?

    You can buy water sleeves here
    https://www.automarine.co.za/water-t...eve&results=83
    and get a temperature switch to switch on a relay for the fans.

    I have done this on my Jeep Lexus V8 conversion and it works very well

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    58
    Thanked: 0

    Default Re: Radiator motor on a switch ?

    Thank you for all the replies, i really want to keep this as simple as possible, the methods above is too complicated for what i can accomplish under my circumstances.

    I am more "heat conscious" than relying on my car temp sensor to turn on the fans.
    And want to switch it on before it does so.

    My battery is fixed in the rear of the car.
    The fusebox is under the bonnet.

    Can someone perhaps tell me how i can use a fuse in the fusebox to power my fans.

    This is my understanding but it needs some correction:

    Attach positive wire to one leg of the fuse, make sure the leg with the positive wire gets inserted into the positive socket of the fuse box fuse plug.
    (I will use a 30 amp slot)

    Where does the negative wire go ?
    Last edited by stumpo; 2021/09/17 at 12:08 PM.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Garsfontein
    Age
    44
    Posts
    2,514
    Thanked: 2841

    Default Re: Radiator motor on a switch ?

    With that question, I would recommend you get somebody to help you first... Bad electrics burns vehicles. Just my 2c.

    Edit: look at the circuit diagram I posted.
    Last edited by iandvl; 2021/09/17 at 12:25 PM.
    Ian de Villiers
    Nissan Patrol GRX 4.5

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    De Wildt
    Age
    59
    Posts
    42,744
    Thanked: 19844

    Default Re: Radiator motor on a switch ?

    OK, this is what you do:

    Get appropriately Amp rated multi-strand wire.
    Crimp a round terminal connector on the end, something that will fit on the POS+ battery terminal clamp.
    Install an inline fuse holder as close as possible to the battery terminal on this wire.
    Install a correctly sized hi amp fuse.
    Install a correctly sized hi amp switch next to the fuse.
    Take the other end of this wire to the fan.
    Crimp an appropriate spade terminal on the other end.
    Place spade terminal on Pos+ input lug on fan.
    Take another piece of multi-strand wire
    Put an appropriate spade terminal on the one end for the NEG- lug on the fan
    Crimp an appropriate 6-8mm round terminal on the other end
    Ground this end to any useful body earth point. (a bolt into a bulkhead captive nut will work, or a bracket mounting bolt)
    Go back to the battery end and connect the other end to the POS+ terminal on the battery.

    Turn the switch on. Wait for the smoke.
    Jakes Louw
    2012 Jeep Sahara Unlimited 3.6 V6
    Percivamus

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Garsfontein
    Age
    44
    Posts
    2,514
    Thanked: 2841

    Default Re: Radiator motor on a switch ?

    All fine, Jakes.

    But I would not suggest running this directly from a switch.

    The circuit diagram I posted earlier is the only way I would consider installing a manual fan override.

    However, if this does not make sense to the OP, then he would be better asking somebody to assist him with it.

    I do not mean that in a nasty way, but I would prefer him not to have electrical fires in the meantime...

    To the OP: if you do decide to do this yourself, please send your number to me via PM so that we can make sure you do the job properly.
    Ian de Villiers
    Nissan Patrol GRX 4.5

  12. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to iandvl For This Useful Post:


  13. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    De Wildt
    Age
    59
    Posts
    42,744
    Thanked: 19844

    Default Re: Radiator motor on a switch ?

    Quote Originally Posted by iandvl View Post
    All fine, Jakes.

    But I would not suggest running this directly from a switch.

    The circuit diagram I posted earlier is the only way I would consider installing a manual fan override.

    However, if this does not make sense to the OP, then he would be better asking somebody to assist him with it.

    I do not mean that in a nasty way, but I would prefer him not to have electrical fires in the meantime...

    To the OP: if you do decide to do this yourself, please send your number to me via PM so that we can make sure you do the job properly.
    I ran mine through a VW thermo switch like that for 4 years on my Nissan Sani.

    The only difference is the manual DC switch he seems set on installing, who knows why. 82 degrees switches will NOT be slower than him getting out of the car and switching it on.

    But yes, it seems Stumpo is stumped.
    Jakes Louw
    2012 Jeep Sahara Unlimited 3.6 V6
    Percivamus

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to jelo For This Useful Post:


  15. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    58
    Thanked: 0

    Default Re: Radiator motor on a switch ?

    Quote Originally Posted by iandvl View Post
    With that question, I would recommend you get somebody to help you first... Bad electrics burns vehicles. Just my 2c.

    Edit: look at the circuit diagram I posted.
    Hi Ian

    I failed to realize the image bottom left is the relay now it makes more sense.

    Fir the switch How to connect the wire going to the fusebox, it seems to be a negative wire ?
    So i simply need to test the fusebox plug for the negative and positive legs ?

    Where does 86 go, a ground area under the bonnet. ?

    What does a 30 amp relay cost ?
    Last edited by stumpo; 2021/09/17 at 01:24 PM.

  16. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    58
    Thanked: 0

    Default Re: Radiator motor on a switch ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    I ran mine through a VW thermo switch like that for 4 years on my Nissan Sani.

    The only difference is the manual DC switch he seems set on installing, who knows why. 82 degrees switches will NOT be slower than him getting out of the car and switching it on.

    But yes, it seems Stumpo is stumped.
    I dont have extra to spend on temp sensors etc..

    Moreover
    If i take out the existing temp sensor the car will likely do something strange (this is a peugeot with a tdv6 engine)hence the reason i posted on this forum)

    The car will stop functioning for the dumbest reason you give it.
    Last edited by stumpo; 2021/09/17 at 01:34 PM.

  17. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Garsfontein
    Age
    44
    Posts
    2,514
    Thanked: 2841

    Default Re: Radiator motor on a switch ?

    Quote Originally Posted by stumpo View Post
    Hi Ian

    I failed to realize the image bottom left is the relay now it makes more sense.

    Fir the switch How to connect the wire going to the fusebox, it seems to be a negative wire ?
    So i simply need to test the fusebox plug for the negative and positive legs ?

    Where does 86 go, a ground area under the bonnet. ?

    What does a 30 amp relay cost ?
    I am away from my PC at the moment. I will answer this when I can.
    Ian de Villiers
    Nissan Patrol GRX 4.5

  18. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    58
    Thanked: 0

    Default Re: Radiator motor on a switch ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    OK, this is what you do:

    Get appropriately Amp rated multi-strand wire.
    Crimp a round terminal connector on the end, something that will fit on the POS+ battery terminal clamp.
    Install an inline fuse holder as close as possible to the battery terminal on this wire.
    Install a correctly sized hi amp fuse.
    Install a correctly sized hi amp switch next to the fuse.
    Take the other end of this wire to the fan.
    Crimp an appropriate spade terminal on the other end.
    Place spade terminal on Pos+ input lug on fan.
    Take another piece of multi-strand wire
    Put an appropriate spade terminal on the one end for the NEG- lug on the fan
    Crimp an appropriate 6-8mm round terminal on the other end
    Ground this end to any useful body earth point. (a bolt into a bulkhead captive nut will work, or a bracket mounting bolt)
    Go back to the battery end and connect the other end to the POS+ terminal on the battery.

    Turn the switch on. Wait for the smoke.
    Hi Jake
    This sounds like the least troublesome method.
    Bypassing the fusebox makes me smile as there is much that can go wrong if something blows in the fusebox.

    Only thing is, can i not move the switch to be closer to the gear lever. Otherwise id need to open the boot everytime i want to switch the fan on.

  19. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    58
    Thanked: 0

    Default Re: Radiator motor on a switch ?

    Quote Originally Posted by iandvl View Post
    I am away from my PC at the moment. I will answer this when I can.
    Thank you sir.

  20. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    58
    Thanked: 0

    Default Re: Radiator motor on a switch ?

    Is the original power cables for the fans powered ie "live" by default.

    Or do they only get powered by the ecu when temps reach threshold ?

    My fans have 2 cables each 12v cables then another thinner set of cables.

  21. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    De Wildt
    Age
    59
    Posts
    42,744
    Thanked: 19844

    Default Re: Radiator motor on a switch ?

    Quote Originally Posted by stumpo View Post
    Is the original power cables for the fans powered ie "live" by default.

    Or do they only get powered by the ecu when temps reach threshold ?

    My fans have 2 cables each 12v cables then another thinner set of cables.
    Maybe post these questions to MikeBob on the Land Rover section, the TDV6 was used in the Discovery 3 and 4 and he knows his way around those engines.

    My guess is yes, they are controlled by the ECU and they are also set to be multi-speed fans: they can go faster or slower as per the ECU sensor input and as per the activation of the aircon etc.

    My question is: WHY are you screwing with the fans on a highly complicated, very temperamental engine?

    If your vehicle is over-heating, it isn't the fans.
    Jakes Louw
    2012 Jeep Sahara Unlimited 3.6 V6
    Percivamus

  22. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Garsfontein
    Age
    44
    Posts
    2,514
    Thanked: 2841

    Default Re: Radiator motor on a switch ?

    Quote Originally Posted by stumpo View Post
    Hi Ian

    I failed to realize the image bottom left is the relay now it makes more sense.

    Fir the switch How to connect the wire going to the fusebox, it seems to be a negative wire ?
    So i simply need to test the fusebox plug for the negative and positive legs ?

    Where does 86 go, a ground area under the bonnet. ?

    What does a 30 amp relay cost ?
    I guess a 30A relay costs about R70.

    I doubt your fuse box has an empty spot which is already wired. You will need an inline fuse, and you will also need to work out what would be a reasonable value for the fuse. An example of an inline fuse holder is attached, and you will want this fuse to be as close to the battery as possible.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Lumeno-inline-fuse-holder.jpg 
Views:	24 
Size:	24.3 KB 
ID:	630202

    86 is ground. You have an option to run this directly to any conveniently placed point on the chassis, or directly to the negative battery terminal. I would just ground it to chassis.

    Not to be nasty in any way, but considering the questions you are asking, I would seriously recommend that you get this done professionally, or that somebody helps you. I am PM'ing you my number now. If you are in Pretoria, I will be able to help you on Sunday afternoon or later next week.
    Ian de Villiers
    Nissan Patrol GRX 4.5

  23. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Garsfontein
    Age
    44
    Posts
    2,514
    Thanked: 2841

    Default Re: Radiator motor on a switch ?

    Quote Originally Posted by stumpo View Post
    Is the original power cables for the fans powered ie "live" by default.

    Or do they only get powered by the ecu when temps reach threshold ?

    My fans have 2 cables each 12v cables then another thinner set of cables.
    As I mentioned earlier, I imagine the thinner cables are sendor wires. But I do not know the fans, or even what vehicle I am dealing with.

    The fans will have a minimum of 1 earth and 1 live cable which turn the fan. I am assuming that:

    1: The two thicker cables are earth and live.
    2: The thinner cable is the sender wire.

    One will need to figure out what is what before making any changes. Also: it is a DC system, if you get live confused with earth and visa versa, your fan will turn the wrong way, and it will not be good.

    The live wire will only be live when the temperature threshold is reached. ie: The live will only be live under circumstances when the fan will be on.
    Ian de Villiers
    Nissan Patrol GRX 4.5

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •