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  1. #41
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    Default Re: The F1 Technical Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by riyadh View Post
    Current cars throw out a wake of air behind it. Something similar to turbulence hence why is hard to close the gap. The new aero will lift that wake over the cars behind. So no turbulence and then should make it easier to close the gap.
    If that works, it will be fantastic for F1!
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity" - Martin Luther king Jr

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  2. #42
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    Default Re: The F1 Technical Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 340 View Post
    For me it was Gordon Murray's fan duct car, using the fan to suck the car to the road as I understand it!
    If you feel like it, listen to Episode 21 on the link below, there Gordon talks about the fan car (among other things in his great career), and how he determined the legality of it.

    It really is a great listen.

    https://collectingcars.com/podcasts/

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  4. #43
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    Default Re: The F1 Technical Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    Hopefully not criminally off topic:

    Since the entire world is going EV, when will F1 switch? Surely they will have to?
    I believe F1 is throwing its weight behind new e-fuel technology which would match the emissions of electric vehicles. I really hope it works and we can continue seeing internal combustion engines in F1 cars.

    https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/2020...els-23021.html

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  6. #44
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    Default Re: The F1 Technical Thread

    F1 is a catch 22

    Reduce aero and drop the lap times, racing will improve, but then the times means it's not F1.

  7. #45
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    Default Re: The F1 Technical Thread

    For those that want a really good YouTube channel to follow. Driver61 is ex pro Scott Mansell and his old man runs a workshop for private owners of older F1 cars. He does various videos on F1 Tech and other racing stuff. Also does reviews of races and incidents and gives a fair first hand racing experience opinion. Anyways, it’s a super channel. Have a look.

    https://youtube.com/c/Driver61

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  9. #46
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    Default Re: The F1 Technical Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 4ePajero View Post
    Will it work in practice?

    The relative speeds won't change, so both cars will still need the same braking distance.

    In my opinion aerodynamics is killing F1.
    The racing series with the least aerodynamic aids have the closest racing, eg F3, DTM etc.
    F1 cars just can't sit on each other's tails - they overheat and lose downforce.
    DRS makes overtaking possible, but is it a fair solution?
    The 'slower' car gets rewarded for being slower! Huh?
    I think it would help. At least in the right direction. Of course the long standing issue has been the inability to follow closely in the turbulent air. There is hope the new cars will improve this.

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  11. #47
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    Default Re: The F1 Technical Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by WrightJnr View Post
    For those that want a really good YouTube channel to follow. Driver61 is ex pro Scott Mansell and his old man runs a workshop for private owners of older F1 cars. He does various videos on F1 Tech and other racing stuff. Also does reviews of races and incidents and gives a fair first hand racing experience opinion. Anyways, it’s a super channel. Have a look.

    https://youtube.com/c/Driver61
    Jip, I really enjoy his takes on some of the racing. Would also reccomend.

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  13. #48
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    Default Re: The F1 Technical Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 4ePajero View Post
    If that works, it will be fantastic for F1!
    What is so fundamentally different between F1 and F2 cars?

    The close racing and overtakes in F2 seems to work and they also do DRS.
    When looking at a F2 race, most times the following distances in a race is below 1 second for quite some time and overtakes happen more often than in F1. Drivers don't complain of overheating or brake fading.

    I am aware speed differential, but can it make such a different outcome?
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  14. #49
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    Default Re: The F1 Technical Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahari Safari View Post
    What is so fundamentally different between F1 and F2 cars?

    The close racing and overtakes in F2 seems to work and they also do DRS.
    When looking at a F2 race, most times the following distances in a race is below 1 second for quite some time and overtakes happen more often than in F1. Drivers don't complain of overheating or brake fading.

    I am aware speed differential, but can it make such a different outcome?
    F2 is a one make series (i.e. all chassis and engines are from the same manufacturers), teams can only play with setup so it cannot be compared to F1. Rules in F1 specifically requires each team to engineer and build their own chassis with only certain parts allowed to be bought in.

    The FIA Formula 2 Championship car is used by all of the teams, and features a carbon-fiber monocoque Dallara chassis, powered by a single-turbocharged direct-injected Mecachrome V6 engine and mounted dry slick and rain treaded Pirelli tyres. Overall weight is 755 kg including the drive
    Last edited by mullerza; 2021/09/17 at 11:43 AM.
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  15. #50
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    Default Re: The F1 Technical Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by mullerza View Post
    F2 is a one make series (i.e. all chassis and engines are from the same manufacturers), teams can only play with setup so it cannot be compared to F1. Rules in F1 specifically requires each team to engineer and build their own chassis with only certain parts allowed to be bought in.
    Even though the cars are very similar (near identical), the aero regulations are different from F1, and it allows for close racing and overtaking.

    F1 cars are also very similar as far as aero goes, but F1 regulations cause the aero set ups to make close racing and overtaking difficult.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity" - Martin Luther king Jr

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  16. #51
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    Default Re: The F1 Technical Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 4ePajero View Post
    Even though the cars are very similar (near identical), the aero regulations are different from F1, and it allows for close racing and overtaking.

    F1 cars are also very similar as far as aero goes, but F1 regulations cause the aero set ups to make close racing and overtaking difficult.
    With a one make series you can play around and design the car specifically to allow for close racing.

    In F1 they need to create technical regs to try achieve the same effect, and then hope that the best paid engineers in the world wont find a way around those regs (which they invariably do)
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  17. #52
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    Default Re: The F1 Technical Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by mullerza View Post
    With a one make series you can play around and design the car specifically to allow for close racing.

    In F1 they need to create technical regs to try achieve the same effect, and then hope that the best paid engineers in the world wont find a way around those regs (which they invariably do)
    I have said it before.
    Put F1 power units in the F2 Dallara chassis, and we will see real racing, not processions and undue accent on tyre strategy.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity" - Martin Luther king Jr

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  18. #53
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    Default Re: The F1 Technical Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by mullerza View Post
    F2 is a one make series (i.e. all chassis and engines are from the same manufacturers), teams can only play with setup so it cannot be compared to F1. Rules in F1 specifically requires each team to engineer and build their own chassis with only certain parts allowed to be bought in.
    I am aware of that, however the issue is the aero which makes close racing difficult in F1.
    The aero in F2, being crucial to the set-up to outperform the competition, does allow just that, close racing.

    Chassis and engine, I keep out of the equation as not to much can be varied, best maybe fine tuned to find the edge.
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    Default Re: The F1 Technical Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 4ePajero View Post
    I have said it before.
    Put F1 power units in the F2 Dallara chassis, and we will see real racing, not processions and undue accent on tyre strategy.
    agree 100%, but it wont be F1, it will just be a faster version of F2.

    I love watching F2, great racing but I follow drivers and I honestly dont actually know any of the teams beyond their names and livery. I doubt there are any for e.g. Prema F2 team fans anywhere. Its a great proving ground for the next generation of F1 stars.

    F1 is more than just on track racing, its the teams, the engineers and the drivers going out to try and make the best package possible within a thick set of regulations. The downside is the racing is often not as good, but you cannot compare it to F2 in terms of the whole package. So in F1 I follow both drivers and teams, I support Vettel and Max but dont support Red Bull and Aston but rather Ferrari as a team.

    F1 one does not always get it right (as was shown the last couple of years), but when they do (as they have done this year) its epic IMHO.
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  21. #55
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    Default Re: The F1 Technical Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahari Safari View Post
    I am aware of that, however the issue is the aero which makes close racing difficult in F1.
    The aero in F2, being crucial to the set-up to outperform the competition, does allow just that, close racing.

    Chassis and engine, I keep out of the equation as not to much can be varied, best maybe fine tuned to find the edge.
    see my other response, its down to the difference between designing the car yourself with a clear goal of leaving clean air behind the car, and having to write a set of rules that tries to force some very clever engineers (who actively wants to disrupt the airflow behind the car) to design the car in the way you want them to. They simply are not going to automatically do what you want them to do if its not in their best interest as a team.
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  23. #56
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    Default Re: The F1 Technical Thread

    That sound! That car! That driver!

    Posting here for the “the technical” marvel that was the V12 engine. Nothing more.

    https://fb.watch/8kTjNoWemI/

  24. #57
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    Default Re: The F1 Technical Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by mullerza View Post
    see my other response, its down to the difference between designing the car yourself with a clear goal of leaving clean air behind the car, and having to write a set of rules that tries to force some very clever engineers (who actively wants to disrupt the airflow behind the car) to design the car in the way you want them to. They simply are not going to automatically do what you want them to do if its not in their best interest as a team.
    This was my perception until recently. During the last year or so, everybody up and down the paddock have been saying 0% design effort goes into worrying what the air behind the car is doing and 100% effort goes into using the air to achieve the fastest lap time. The net result is "rubbished" air behind the car.
    Next year they are allowing ground effects again. This will easily give current downforce levels, with much cleaned up "over the car" aerodynamic. Closer following should be possible.
    Nobody in the paddock is mentioning that ground effect (or the sudden loss there of) was directly attributed to Senna's accident, which eventually lead to it being written out of the rule book. Now it's back again.
    Last edited by RoelfleRoux; 2021/09/30 at 06:58 AM.

  25. #58
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    Default Re: The F1 Technical Thread

    Another thing that on tend to forget is that current F1 cars are absolutely HUGE.The tracks ont the other hand stayed the same,…. So the available track thats left for racing and overtaking is just so much smaller?

    F1 should cut the size of their cars drastically down, but that should impair safety and packaging again.

  26. #59
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    Default Re: The F1 Technical Thread

    Why no DRS today?
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  27. #60
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    Default Re: The F1 Technical Thread

    Track was too slippery. Only when slick tyres are on then do they start making the call.
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