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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Help needed with small Honda generator

    My logig tells me that Hz is revolution dependent, whereas volts may perhaps be manipulated with devices such as resistors, transformers or diodes. That is why I am looking for a bolt-on voltage manipulator.

    Can't find info on ER650, only EX & EM650, presume the ER is a 220V version.

    https://cdn.powerequipment.honda.com...s/31ZA8030.pdf

    These are self-excited alternators with the only output voltage control being the RPM, ie. the windings are such that the 220Vac output is achieved at 3000RPM and therefore 50Hz / 220Vac.

    The engine appears to be Honda G100 with similar (if not identical) governor as used on the GX series. For all intents & purposes the governor is highly reliable - it is Honda after all.

    https://www.jackssmallengines.com/ja...x-em650control

    As a test to confirm all is otherwise well with your generator; use engine throttle to reduce engine RPM while measuring the output voltage. If 220V can be achieved, have the governor repaired. You could try Ideal Agencies in Stikland, they're agents for Hoffman - a clone of the Honda engines.

    ----

    What you may have in mind (and as suggested above) is a constant-voltage-transfomer. This however is not an appropriate solution in this case.

    Should you still be concerned about over-voltage protection you could fit an inline 5A fuse and 250V MOV.

    https://components101.com/articles/m...r-mov-overview

    When an output voltage greater than 250Vac is reached, the MOV shorts and blows the fuse. When this happens the MOV would have to be replaced.

    Over / under-voltage protection relays are available, again not appropriate in this case.
    https://www.acdc.co.za/products/1-ph...nt=30482589260

    ------
    I would just adjust the throttle, confirm you can get 220V and have the governor repaired.

    Hope this helps, good luck
    Last edited by RussellF; 2021/08/26 at 06:55 PM.

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  3. #22
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    Default Re: Help needed with small Honda generator

    The capacitor excite the generator it might be faulty. Replace or test. For safety a over under voltage plug is essential on a generator.
    it is used to regulate the excite circuit on the generator. The generator windings will be such that they are saturated around the nominal voltage and the excite circuit with the capacitor in it will keep it regulated around that nominal voltage as the loads vary.
    Last edited by bertus; 2021/08/26 at 10:30 PM.

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  5. #23
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    Default Re: Help needed with small Honda generator

    Quote Originally Posted by Poen View Post
    Uncle Google tells me that "Frequency is the rate at which current changes direction per second. It is measured in hertz (Hz), an international unit of measure where 1 hertz is equal to 1 cycle per second. Hertz (Hz) = One hertz is equal to one cycle per second. Cycle = One complete wave of alternating current or voltage." My logig tells me that Hz is revolution dependent, whereas volts may perhaps be manipulated with devices such as resistors, transformers or diodes. That is why I am looking for a bolt-on voltage manipulator.
    You could possibly bolt on a voltage regulator and re-wire the field as needed, (I’m assuming it self excites and bootstraps) but you will still need to control rpm somehow for frequency...

    ...but instead of re-inventing the wheel, that Honda system is robust and a good generator technician will be able to repair/replace that mechanical governor without much problem and load bank to adjust rpm and verify output...

    Having said that, I did work on one old system that the throttle was controlled by an electric solenoid actuator set to run either at rated rpm loaded or idle only with no load compensation. Not ideal, but it only had one constant load while in service...

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  7. #24
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    Default Re: Help needed with small Honda generator

    After cost of rebuilding up your genny from forum advice... You cold just go buy a new one
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  9. #25
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    Default Re: Help needed with small Honda generator

    Just maybe also keep in mind the older basic gennies like these very small ones were typically made for running some lights or similar loads. I'd be cautious of powering expensive sensitive electronics. The suggestions of adding protection like the MOV & fuse or one of the Clearline over/undervoltage protectors are good.
    ZS6VL


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  11. #26
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    Default Re: Help needed with small Honda generator

    Quote Originally Posted by An3s View Post
    Just maybe also keep in mind the older basic gennies like these very small ones were typically made for running some lights or similar loads. I'd be cautious of powering expensive sensitive electronics. The suggestions of adding protection like the MOV & fuse or one of the Clearline over/undervoltage protectors are good.
    It is all fine in theory to suggest say a 250V MOV but just like resistors there are standard voltages and the closest MOV is 270V.

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  13. #27
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    Default Re: Help needed with small Honda generator

    Hi Poen,

    Had a similar problem and I took my unit to J Schipper & Sons in Stikland.
    Was sorted out very quickly.

    The speed of the engine determine the Hz or Frequency output.
    So to obtain 50Hz, your motor needs to run either 3000 or 1500 rpm.
    Voltage on the older units use a capacitor. Here the voltage also fluctuated with the motor rpm.

    Newer units use an AVR, which is an Automatic Voltage Regulator.
    This is much safer for your connected equipment.

    The inverter type units actually convert AC to DC first, then using electronic inverter back to AC.
    Advantage is your motor only works as hard as you load it, thus saving on noise and fuel.


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  15. #28
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    Default Re: Help needed with small Honda generator

    I have the EM650 that I got with my camping trailer years back. Worked like a dream but then stated doing the same by chucking out 400 odd V on AC. The revs on mine would climb then drop then climb and keep doing that or even die after a few minutes. A mate cleaned it up and now it runs but the revs climb too high and unless I choke it to starve it of air a bit it hits over 400 volts.

    Anyone know someone reliable up here in Jhb ( preferably Alberton) that can sort mine out.
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    Cheers

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  16. #29
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    Default Re: Help needed with small Honda generator

    I seen both these generators before. I might be wrong but most small generators use capacitors to excite/regulate out put. if the regulating does not work correctly the motor will do the same to compensate. I suggest replacing that capacitor. Caps does not last for ever.

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  18. #30
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    Default Re: Help needed with small Honda generator

    It is all fine in theory to suggest say a 250V MOV but just like resistors there are standard voltages and the closest MOV is 270V.

    250's are around, 270's being most common in the equips power supply. doesn't make sense to use the same rating as upstream protection.

  19. #31
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    Default Re: Help needed with small Honda generator

    Small generators are made to be light, so they do not have a big flywheel to compensate for load changes. If the revs do not increase quickly to compensate for load the frequency will drop and everything will be our of kilter-whatever voltage control you put on, its no good if the rotor is not turning at the right speed. Hence the spring governor-cheap, very reliable. Check that the governor lever is not gummed up with dirt and can move through its entire arc easily-give it a bit of WD40 and work it by hand. I had a similar problem with a Yamaha ET900 and that solved it.




    Quote Originally Posted by Poen View Post
    I agree that it is stupid. The technitian agrees, but that is the way it is. I know too little to try and tap into the windings or perform intricate modifications, that is why I am looking for a bolt-on solution.

    Is there not a resistor type device that will only allow say 220 volt through? How does the lightning protection plugs work? Are tey not power surge protectors limiting what goes through?

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  21. #32
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    Default Re: Help needed with small Honda generator

    Quote Originally Posted by Poen View Post
    I

    Is there not a resistor type device that will only allow say 220 volt through? How does the lightning protection plugs work? Are tey not power surge protectors limiting what goes through?
    I am not so sure the MOVs can be used to limit the voltage to 220V. AFAIK they are used as protection devices that blow your fuses during high voltage surges. When fuses are blown the supply is thus disconnected to prevent damage to equipment. MOVs are always used at the load side of fuses.

  22. #33
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    Default Re: Help needed with small Honda generator

    Quote Originally Posted by Wetkit View Post
    Hi Poen,

    Had a similar problem and I took my unit to J Schipper & Sons in Stikland.
    Was sorted out very quickly.
    Should well be able to - grew up in a house adjacent to the house of the original Schipper family, who started this business in the late 1950's!
    2011 Pajero 3.8 GLS LWB

  23. #34
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    Default Re: Help needed with small Honda generator

    Gents have the AVR checked Auto Voltage Regulator that regulates the electricity that comes out of the Genny, The mech that looked at your Genny isa new parts fitter and does not know his product

    Hope you get it sorted

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