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  1. #1
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    Default TLF Bronco vs Wrangler vs LR DEfender

    Did anyone watch this last night?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=391AsASvmi8

    The bronco certainly looks like an interesting prospect and it is a pity that Ford does not make them in RHD. The LR Did very poorly, showing that no matter what anyone tells you, low profiles on an off roader, are a bad idea.

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    Default Re: TLF Bronco vs Wrangler vs LR DEfender

    What is certain though is that SFA rules off road. Impressive as the Bronco is, the Wrangler just looked so much more at ease in the rough. Articulation still the best, no matter what Ford claims.
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    Default Re: TLF Bronco vs Wrangler vs LR DEfender

    Quote Originally Posted by Francois Theron View Post
    What is certain though is that SFA rules off road. Impressive as the Bronco is, the Wrangler just looked so much more at ease in the rough. Articulation still the best, no matter what Ford claims.
    What I have ALWAYS said.

    TC is great, but lockers or TC with articulation is better..........and the Rubicon comes with TC, lockers, and articulation.
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    Default Re: TLF Bronco vs Wrangler vs LR DEfender

    I watched that section of the clip many times, I'd have taken different lines in my RRS (also on 20s) in both instances.


    Quite unlucky on the second puncture though.
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    Default Re: TLF Bronco vs Wrangler vs LR DEfender

    Quote Originally Posted by Orxy View Post
    I watched that section of the clip many times, I'd have taken different lines in my RRS (also on 20s) in both instances.


    Quite unlucky on the second puncture though.
    The whole point of the comparison was to take the same line. If not, you may as well not compare vehicles at all.
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    Default TLF Bronco vs Wrangler vs LR DEfender

    Pity they didn’t follow the exact same line. The Jeep seemed way better on articulation with very similar breakover catching/scraping to Bronco when they did follow similar lines.

    Understand that they tested vehicles as supplied from dealers…but comparing apples to apples if Jeep had 35” fitted it would have walked away with it.
    Last edited by GasHog; 2021/07/29 at 05:35 PM.
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    Default Re: TLF Bronco vs Wrangler vs LR DEfender

    I posted this on another thread.

    So this video fails in so many ways....incorrect tyres, no electronic diff, he did not use rock crawl or then super extend air suspension when he basically bottomed out. Drive the correct line and also use correct tyre pressure for the obstacles.

    Americans setting up a British car to fail. Put 35's on the defender, spec active diff and use rock crawl. Idiots.

    There are a lot of youtube videos where the Defender was compared to Jeeps etc. in other tests using correct tyres etc. and the outcome is a little different. This is like pro vax vs anti vax discussions....you will always find something to suit your way of thinking.
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    Default Re: TLF Bronco vs Wrangler vs LR DEfender

    When I did the LR experience they compared two vehicles on the same obstacle, one without the active diff.

    The one with TC only had a lot more wheelspin and engine revs compared to the one that used both Centre and rear diff with TC in combination. No wheelspin and very smooth.

    I think anyone who doubts the New Defender performance should go cost a LR experience Centre and see how well they perform.

    To give an example on the one rocky trail, standard ground clearance in off-road height is 295mm, activating super extended mode increased to 370mm. This is activated by having the chassis just above a rock, foot on brake and hold air suspension button in, it raises extra 75mm.

    Taking the correct line and using rock crawl it is pretty much unstoppable and limited by tyres only.
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    Default Re: TLF Bronco vs Wrangler vs LR DEfender

    What you can't deny: if you throw another R500k at a JLUR there is no way the overpriced ND will get close to it on or off road and we're not even mentioning the 392 Hemi here.
    Last edited by jelo; 2021/07/29 at 05:47 PM.
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    Default Re: TLF Bronco vs Wrangler vs LR DEfender

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    What you can't deny: if you throw another R500k at a JLUR there is no way the overpriced ND will get close to it on or off road and we're not even mentioning the 392 Hemi here.
    But then it still can’t compare to the on road performance of the ND.
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    Default Re: TLF Bronco vs Wrangler vs LR DEfender

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceHun View Post
    But then it still can’t compare to the on road performance of the ND.
    I say it can. Here is the summary from the TFL team:

    The truth is that, without a few mods, the Land Rover isn't capable of keeping up with the big boys, and since it's a pretty expensive vehicle to begin with, that will only boost its price even further. At which point, you have to ask yourself: why bother?
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    Default Re: TLF Bronco vs Wrangler vs LR DEfender

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    I say it can. Here is the summary from the TFL team:

    The truth is that, without a few mods, the Land Rover isn't capable of keeping up with the big boys, and since it's a pretty expensive vehicle to begin with, that will only boost its price even further. At which point, you have to ask yourself: why bother?
    Once again I dont take what these guys say seriously.

    They are focused on clickbait to make money period.

    The only mod the ND needs is 18” rims with decent off-road tyres…oh and of course making sure the e-diff is optioned.

    Have you driven or been in a ND?

    The Defender may not beat the Rubicon off-road…emphasis on May as there are other YouTube’s on the Rubicon trail where the Defender competes without an issue.

    But there is no way the others can beat it as an all-rounder.

    Spec a Rubicon price in SA and a Defebder S with apples vs apples and Defender price is higher but by maybe R300k. Bearing in mind dollar vs pound. I also don’t think the Jeep can compare to the D300 or P400 engines if I’m not mistaken.

    I know which one I would prefer to drive around SA doing on road and off-road.
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    Default Re: TLF Bronco vs Wrangler vs LR DEfender

    Ah OK. Confirmation bias. Got it.
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    Default Re: TLF Bronco vs Wrangler vs LR DEfender

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceHun View Post
    Once again I dont take what these guys say seriously.

    They are focused on clickbait to make money period.

    The only mod the ND needs is 18” rims with decent off-road tyres…oh and of course making sure the e-diff is optioned.

    Have you driven or been in a ND?

    The Defender may not beat the Rubicon off-road…emphasis on May as there are other YouTube’s on the Rubicon trail where the Defender competes without an issue.

    But there is no way the others can beat it as an all-rounder.

    Spec a Rubicon price in SA and a Defebder S with apples vs apples and Defender price is higher but by maybe R300k. Bearing in mind dollar vs pound. I also don’t think the Jeep can compare to the D300 or P400 engines if I’m not mistaken.

    I know which one I would prefer to drive around SA doing on road and off-road.
    I suggest you go and watch more of the TFL video's, I would say they are very unbiased in their assessments. They actually own both the Bronco and the Defender. That blue Defender is their 3rd ND, the first 2 were both duds from the factory, so they sure gave it a fair chance and stuck with it.

    With that being said the ND would likely be the better all rounder, so why would you be so sure it would also be the better off roader? Independent suspension is done for the sake of better on road performance. TC is only better than lockers in very specific off road conditions. The wrangler has both TC and lockers, plus great articulation and solid axles.

    The real star of this video was the Bronco in my mind, Ford pulled out all the stops to try and compete with the wrangler and did so sufficiently well that Jeep had to come up with a more extreme version of the Rubicon, which ultimately is great for Jeep fans as they will get an even more capable Rubicon in the future. The Bronco has some really clever gadgets that work well off road.

    3 impressive vehicles, with each its own pro's and con's, but for my money I would get the wrangler every day of the week and twice on Sunday every week. It is still the best off roader with the most modification potential.


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    Default Re: TLF Bronco vs Wrangler vs LR DEfender

    Having driven the new defender - I think it is absolutely amazing. In my opinion it should have been the Discovery 4's successor.

    I drove the previous gen Wrangler and on the road I would take the defender every day of the week.

    The defender should have been a bit more stripped out and rugged to compete at the Wranglers price point as it stands the Wrangler has no worthy competitor in its price bracket.
    The 300k difference from the defender does put the defender in a different segment.

    Fords Bronco does look great - hope they decide to make a right hand drive version that comes here.

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    Default Re: TLF Bronco vs Wrangler vs LR DEfender

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceHun View Post
    I posted this on another thread.

    So this video fails in so many ways....incorrect tyres, no electronic diff, he did not use rock crawl or then super extend air suspension when he basically bottomed out. Drive the correct line and also use correct tyre pressure for the obstacles.

    Americans setting up a British car to fail. Put 35's on the defender, spec active diff and use rock crawl. Idiots.

    There are a lot of youtube videos where the Defender was compared to Jeeps etc. in other tests using correct tyres etc. and the outcome is a little different. This is like pro vax vs anti vax discussions....you will always find something to suit your way of thinking.
    I watch most of TFL's videos, I enjoy their content and they are often first to real world test vehicles. Having said that their mechanical and off road knowledge leave a lot to be desired and they themselves admit they are amateurs in that regard. I definitely don't find them bias though, but perhaps their lack of expertise in some areas forces them to a bias.

    I have seen the ND in extended mode while beach launching. Its got a crazy amount of clearance and you could see they did not activate it here. Also, it seems they don't really know how to use the TC effectively (on and off the power?). So while I enjoyed watching I would not take the outcome of this too seriously, especially since they used the wrong ND (it should have the locking diff). At the end there still has to be a winner even if the test was conducted again with people who intimately knew each vehicle and with the correct spec. Not sure who would win, but for me as someone who enjoys an all rounder I think I'd go ND (D300 though), but that Bronco is oh so nice, and I mean as a trail vehicle its hard to argue against the Jeep gizmos.
    Last edited by ChasingSunsets; 2021/07/29 at 10:38 PM.

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    Default Re: TLF Bronco vs Wrangler vs LR DEfender

    I will put this out there:

    A standard New Defender will go further off road than a Standard JK Rubicon unlimited

    This from my own off road observations.

    In fact, I will say a standard D4 will go further than a standard JK Rubicon Unlimited
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    Default Re: TLF Bronco vs Wrangler vs LR DEfender

    Quote Originally Posted by Hedgehog View Post
    I will put this out there:

    A standard New Defender will go further off road than a Standard JK Rubicon unlimited

    This from my own off road observations.

    In fact, I will say a standard D4 will go further than a standard JK Rubicon Unlimited
    I see there are owners of both ND and Rubicon on the forum, should be simple enough to set it up and see.

    It doesn't seem like the new Bronco will be coming to SA, but if it were I am sure it would be a huge hit, most people don't need anything as off-road biased as a wrangler, and since the Bronco offers a lot of the same wow factor and capability in a larger and similarly capable off road package I am sure Ford would find many takers.


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    Default Re: TLF Bronco vs Wrangler vs LR DEfender

    Quote Originally Posted by Hedgehog View Post
    I will put this out there:

    A standard New Defender will go further off road than a Standard JK Rubicon unlimited

    This from my own off road observations.

    In fact, I will say a standard D4 will go further than a standard JK Rubicon Unlimited
    OT, but where would you place the FJ? compared to these two? and the Bronco?
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    Default Re: TLF Bronco vs Wrangler vs LR DEfender

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceHun View Post
    Once again I dont take what these guys say seriously.

    They are focused on clickbait to make money period.

    The only mod the ND needs is 18” rims with decent off-road tyres…oh and of course making sure the e-diff is optioned.

    Have you driven or been in a ND?

    The Defender may not beat the Rubicon off-road…emphasis on May as there are other YouTube’s on the Rubicon trail where the Defender competes without an issue.

    But there is no way the others can beat it as an all-rounder.

    Spec a Rubicon price in SA and a Defebder S with apples vs apples and Defender price is higher but by maybe R300k. Bearing in mind dollar vs pound. I also don’t think the Jeep can compare to the D300 or P400 engines if I’m not mistaken.

    I know which one I would prefer to drive around SA doing on road and off-road.
    Bruce, with respect I have to disagree with you here.

    I have been following these guys for some time now and biased they are not. Especially on the ND the father likes it a lot and the son always teases him about it.
    They made it very clear that 18" rims cannot be fitted to the 6 cylinder models (maybe they are wrong?).
    The first ND they bought was actually specced and fitted with a rear diff lock. After LR's third attempt to supply a working vehicle, they gave them the 6 cylinder at the 4 cylinder price but could not find one with a rear diff lock at the time.

    I think the main point made was not so much the ND's off road capabilities but the fact that low profile rubber off road can be problematic.
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