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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Cost of Cape to Cairo

    Tim

    It is all hypothetical at the moment, I’m afraid.

    With the crisis in Ethiopia apropos Tigray, the border between Ethiopia and Sudan is closed. I read about some European overlanders heading south in late 2020 who managed to get to Khartoum. In Khartoum they discovered that the Ethiopian border was closed - not because of COVID-19 (which it had been earlier in 2020), but because of the ongoing crisis in Tigray. They decided that they couldn’t afford shipping their Land Rover from Port Sudan to Mombasa or further south and have left their vehicle in Khartoum. They then flew to South Africa and were last heard of roaming around Namibia in a hired vehicle. You will find a link to their blog on this forum. The Ethiopian/Tigrayan crisis does not look as if it’s going to be resolved any time soon.

    But back to your original question about costs. We drove just under 35,000 miles (55,698 kms) from the UK to Cape Town - and then back to Kenya - between August 2013 and December 2014. We were on the road for 14 months through 18 countries. We used 6,795 litres of diesel (8.15 kms/litre). We chose, mostly, the roads less travelled and visited most of the major parks and reserves. We did not, however, keep detailed analyses of the costs involved. We had decided to do this big trip and had set aside sufficient money to do so and to be able to visit all the places we wanted to. We met many - more impecunious - overlanders who were missing the major sites due to so-called budget restraints, but still flopped into the nearest hotel or banda whilst us oldies set up our tents.

    I always advise people who ask the same question to budget (minus vehicle and set-up costs, shipping, Carnet costs, border/third party insurance/carbon tax costs, medical and other insurance, and visas) on USD100 per day. Of course, that is the average - some days negligible costs bar fuel and food, some days considerably more. Unfortunately, with costs going up everywhere, it might be prudent to budget for “on the road” costs of USD150 per day for two people.

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  3. #22
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  5. #23
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    Default Re: Cost of Cape to Cairo

    Re: carnet costs - Dan Grec from the roadchoseme.com (who has posted on the forum a bit a while back and has a youtube video about his trip, inc. Egypt border formalities) managed to get a carnet issued to his vehicle (Canadian registered?) at the Egyptian border. I'm unclear on how he pulled this off, but he is a budget overlander and I seriously doubt he coughed up a 200% deposit.

    He also traveled the rest of E. Africa without a carnet. I have no doubt it is easier to have one, but if cost is the issue then you can mostly work around that. Though in Kenya your time could be limited. But, as WW mentioned, Ethiopia is it's own problem, so perhaps the Egyptian carnet will not be a problem for you.
    Blog of our African travels: stuckinlowgear.com

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  7. #24
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    Default Re: Cost of Cape to Cairo

    Quote Originally Posted by PieterOos View Post
    Haha the risk of asking what you need to drive to cairo is that someone will point out that an old lady did it in a conquest.
    Check out http://www.youtube.com/c/timhulme for my latest overlanding vlog!

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  9. #25
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    Default Re: Cost of Cape to Cairo

    As always this forum is such a wealth of information, thank you all for indulging my curiosity!!

    I'm going to do some more home work and will be back with more questions!

    Is going North West from Uganda through the top of the DRC, CAR and into Sudan that way not an option to avoid the conflict in Tigray?

    The reality is that the CT to Cairo label is romantically appealing, and sellable, but most of what I actually want to do is Sub Saharan.
    Check out http://www.youtube.com/c/timhulme for my latest overlanding vlog!

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  10. #26
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    Default Re: Cost of Cape to Cairo

    Probably worse conflict in CAR route than Tigray.

    Why don’t you loop around Lake Victoria and head home a different route?

    I think the dream of reaching Cairo is pretty much dead in the water for the foreseeable future.

  11. #27
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    Default Re: Cost of Cape to Cairo

    Quote Originally Posted by RobH View Post
    Probably worse conflict in CAR route than Tigray.

    Why don’t you loop around Lake Victoria and head home a different route?

    I think the dream of reaching Cairo is pretty much dead in the water for the foreseeable future.
    Hi Rob,

    Oh really, I thought it had cooled off there. Is there any reasonably sensible (I know it's obviously all relative) way to overland into West Africa?

    The loop around Lake Victoria was actually our plan in February 2020 (SA, Bot, Zambia, Tanzania, Rwanda, Uganda, Kenya, Tanzania, Malawi, Mozam, SA), and we were a month into it when COVID hit. I wanted to take on something more ambitious this time, but maybe you are right and I should just fill it out with a leg into southern ethiopia, and maybe southern Angola on the way back. I'm pitching it to a client, so the 'Cape to Cairo' label is hard to beat.

    T
    Check out http://www.youtube.com/c/timhulme for my latest overlanding vlog!

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  12. #28
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    Default Re: Cost of Cape to Cairo

    Quote Originally Posted by CalDriver View Post
    Re: carnet costs - Dan Grec from the roadchoseme.com (who has posted on the forum a bit a while back and has a youtube video about his trip, inc. Egypt border formalities) managed to get a carnet issued to his vehicle (Canadian registered?) at the Egyptian border. I'm unclear on how he pulled this off, but he is a budget overlander and I seriously doubt he coughed up a 200% deposit.

    He also traveled the rest of E. Africa without a carnet. I have no doubt it is easier to have one, but if cost is the issue then you can mostly work around that. Though in Kenya your time could be limited. But, as WW mentioned, Ethiopia is it's own problem, so perhaps the Egyptian carnet will not be a problem for you.
    Here's the link if anyone wants to watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z0OfODby98

    It's seems that it all depends on the issuing authority. Ours being the AASA. Whether they accept a bank guarantee or want an actual deposit.

    I would really explore the option Dan took as that is way more cost effective if it can still be achieved. Maybe a more international forum can put you in contact with the people who organize this in Egypt.
    2018 Suzuki Jimny - Expedition vehicle
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  14. #29
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    Default Re: Cost of Cape to Cairo

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheldon93 View Post
    Here's the link if anyone wants to watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z0OfODby98

    It's seems that it all depends on the issuing authority. Ours being the AASA. Whether they accept a bank guarantee or want an actual deposit.

    I would really explore the option Dan took as that is way more cost effective if it can still be achieved. Maybe a more international forum can put you in contact with the people who organize this in Egypt.
    The AASA accepted a guarantee from our bank for our Carnet, it obviously depends if the bank feels you are a reasonable financial risk or not. With us no money needed to be deposited, paid or transferred, Carnet cost us no deposit at all.

    Having one makes passing through sometimes chaotic African borders immeasurably easier.
    Last edited by Stan Weakley; 2021/07/23 at 09:01 AM.
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  16. #30
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    Default Re: Cost of Cape to Cairo

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Hulme View Post

    Is going North West from Uganda through the top of the DRC, CAR and into Sudan that way not an option to avoid the conflict in Tigray?
    .
    There are even worse things going on in those countries than what is happening in Ethiopia/Tigray. Plus the fact that many of those roads don’t exist any more. I highly recommend reading “Crossing the Congo” by Hatch-Barnwell, Baker and Martin.

    I advise you to do an in-depth analysis on allafrica.com or many of the other news sites. Geopolitics is more important than what vehicle, what kit etc.

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  18. #31
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    Default Re: Cost of Cape to Cairo

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Hulme View Post
    Hi Rob,

    Oh really, I thought it had cooled off there. Is there any reasonably sensible (I know it's obviously all relative) way to overland into West Africa?

    The loop around Lake Victoria was actually our plan in February 2020 (SA, Bot, Zambia, Tanzania, Rwanda, Uganda, Kenya, Tanzania, Malawi, Mozam, SA), and we were a month into it when COVID hit. I wanted to take on something more ambitious this time, but maybe you are right and I should just fill it out with a leg into southern ethiopia, and maybe southern Angola on the way back. I'm pitching it to a client, so the 'Cape to Cairo' label is hard to beat.

    T
    Someone put together this on the Overlanding Africa facebook group because this question was getting asked so often. The Algeria/Mauritania border at Tindouf was open to tourists pre-covid, that route is not depicted here and might be an option.

    I hope someone someday will forge a route from South Sudan to Sudan, perhaps taking the river barge across the border from Maralal to Kosti. Perhaps the Hatch-Barnwell/Baker/Martin team . I asked around about that status of that area a local on the ground and my aid worker friend with extensive S. Sudan experience concurred that, not to anyone's surprise, crossing from S. Sudan to Sudan is not viable. I get the impression that goods are let across but not people? It was hard to pin down. Not to mention a very significant security risk, despite recent gradual improvement. Perhaps in time.

    Last edited by CalDriver; 2021/07/23 at 04:59 PM.
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  20. #32
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    Default Re: Cost of Cape to Cairo

    Quote Originally Posted by CalDriver View Post

    I hope someone someday will forge a route from South Sudan to Sudan, perhaps taking the river barge across the border from Maralal to Kosti. Perhaps the Hatch-Barnwell/Baker/Martin team . I asked around about that status of that area a local on the ground and my aid worker friend with extensive S. Sudan experience concurred that, not to anyone's surprise, crossing from S. Sudan to Sudan is not viable. I get the impression that goods are let across but not people? It was hard to pin down. Not to mention a very significant security risk, despite recent gradual improvement. Perhaps in time.
    Up until the late 1970s, the route from Cairo to the Cape was through what is now South Sudan. Ethiopia was a no-go zone due to the Derg.

    A Kenyan friend of mine drove that route back home after we left university. He bought an old Land Rover in London: his trip came to a halt in Juba (now South Sudan, then Sudan), but he managed to sell the broken down Land Rover in Juba for more than he had bought it for in London. That was all before advanced bureaucracy and deposits for Carnets. He hitched a ride into Kenya on trucks and got home. In that same year - 1979 - two female friends of mine got back to Kenya from the UK by public transport - mostly by train. Trains and ferries from Cairo to Khartoum, and then to Juba where they did rather come to a halt, but they eventually got into Kenya by hitching a ride on trucks.

    South Sudan is very firmly “out of bounds”.
    Last edited by Wazungu Wawili; 2021/07/24 at 01:42 AM.

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  22. #33
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    Default Re: Cost of Cape to Cairo

    Much easier in the " Good old days "

    My then GF's folks from Fish Hoek in their De Soto......nearly but not quite. !954
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    There is no task too simple for some people to complicate !



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  24. #34
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    Default Re: Cost of Cape to Cairo

    Tim, I rode a BMW 650 Cape Town to Cairo in 2010, when Sudan was open and welcoming. It took 5 months and cost over $ 2000 a month, excluding parks (not accessible on a bike). It was not the best experience: Africa is not geared to independent travel - wild camping is scary and usually impossible, camp sites are non existent north of Tanzania. Hostels are expensive and horrendous. Hotels are geared to wealthy European travellers on 5 day safaris. Ethiopia was visually stunning and humanly horrible. Egypt was a nightmare. My book contains only photographs because the narrative was too depressing.
    In 2007/9 I rode Vancouver to Prudhoe Bay, Alaska, down to Ushuaia, Argentina. 14 countries, 58 000 km, over 22 months.
    Including buying and reselling the bike the trip cost $ 25 000. Undoubtably the best experience of my life. Not a single hassle at borders (no carnet, no visa charges), only encountered street beggars in Mexico, nowhere else, never asked for a bribe, overwhelmingly friendly people (and officials) in every country. Incredible underused back roads (even in the US). Easy camping,both wild and in camp sites, great hostels at around $10 a night even in cities like Buenos Aires and Bogota (and San Francisco). My 300 page book of that trip is 50/50 words and images.
    My only regret is I didn’t have the tech to record on video (that was before smartphones, let alone GoPro).
    Your record of Kruger is my most recommended video!
    cheers ‘Hayley’s father’

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  26. #35
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    Default Re: Cost of Cape to Cairo

    Quote Originally Posted by vagamoto View Post
    ....... It was not the best experience: Africa is not geared to independent travel - wild camping is scary and usually impossible, camp sites are non existent north of Tanzania.........
    As always there is the matter of opinion. Many on this forum totally disagree that independent travel in Africa is not worth the trouble.
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  28. #36
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    Default Re: Cost of Cape to Cairo

    Just to mention the Carnet for Egypt used to be 800% for quite a while, it seems better now then at 200%.
    To go south from Egypt you always used to need the Wadi Halfa ferry but there was a road that was always closed for security reasons. I wonder if that can be used now.
    Egypt was always one of the most difficult places to get a vehicle in to.

  29. #37
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    Default Re: Cost of Cape to Cairo

    Quote Originally Posted by ChristopherH View Post
    To go south from Egypt you always used to need the Wadi Halfa ferry but there was a road that was always closed for security reasons. I wonder if that can be used now.
    There is now a land-accessed border post between Sudan (Waidi Halfa) and Egypt. Feeds north and southwards. Much simpler than the old ferry. Lots of info out there - Google.
    Stanley Weakley.
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    “Great journeys are memorable not so much for what you saw, but for where you camped”.

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    OR
    http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/...e16?highlight= from post 315.

  30. #38
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    Default Re: Cost of Cape to Cairo

    Quote Originally Posted by PieterOos View Post
    LOL yes a 20 year old 'Yota Conquest https://www.iol.co.za/travel/80-year...quest-16281813
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  31. #39
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    Default Re: Cost of Cape to Cairo

    Quote Originally Posted by Stan Weakley View Post
    There is now a land-accessed border post between Sudan (Waidi Halfa) and Egypt. Feeds north and southwards. Much simpler than the old ferry. Lots of info out there - Google.
    Stan, we tried to use that back in January 2020 but were told that a) it was Northbound only and b) it was only used by trucks. Never met any overlanders that had used it but of course it may be different by now. Ferry was fun though, made a change from dusty roads.

  32. #40
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    Default Re: Cost of Cape to Cairo

    Hi Tim, we drove from Scotland to Cape Town and did the Cairo to Cape part from December 2019 to December 2020. Of course we were held up for 7 months in Kenya due to closed borders for COVID so we would have been quicker but probably still around 9 months. We sped through Tanzania due to their (lack of) COVID info and by the time we were in Etosha and the potential 2nd wave was hitting SA we speeded up to get before any more borders were closed on us.

    Our exact costs were not documented (too scared to look back at bank balances), but I can tell you about fuel, we covered 14,500 miles (23,300 kms) used 3640 ltrs diesel and averaged 15.6 ltr/100km. Total cost was UK £ 2016 or approx R41400 at todays exchange rate. We were in a Hilux towing our own trailer (about 1500kg) and camped 99% of the way only using hotels where necessary. We reckoned on appx £12 (R240) per night on average for camp fees except if the parks where it can be $60 a night for a basic site.

    Our carnet (UK issue) was based on a deposit of the value of the vehicle, not a percentage and was £5000 (R100,000) per vehicle, yes, we paid the same for the trailer so I'm currently trying to import here and have R200,000 of my funds on deposit in London. For info, it took me 9 days to import the vehicles from EU (Greece) as we shipped across in a 40' hc container. Other borders were easier, hardest was Egypt - Sudan which took about 6 hours.

    Our trip route overview map and sections can be seen at Polarsteps - https://www.polarsteps.com/KenMcLuck...a-to-cape-town

    It total we did 31 countries, 18 months on the road and covered 48,000 kms.

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