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Thread: 79 DC 1HZ vs V6

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    Default 79 DC 1HZ vs V6

    I’m sitting with a bit of a head/heart struggle now, needing to make a choice between these two.

    the vehicle must be bought new, and it must be a 79. So don’t even try convince me I need a pajero or an Amarok. The first two points are non negotiable.

    The car will have a hard life, and be expected to wear many hats. It will be used to cover long distances at last twice a month, carrying up to 4 occupants, and will be loaded during these trips. It will also need to tow large but not heavy trailers on these cross country trips from time to time. between 800 - 1000kgs), and then get used on site for some heavy duty off-road work, the kind of work only cruisers and old school defender pick ups can do. It will be loaded with rocks and sand, it will transport fencing equipment, avgas drums and other stuff that damages softer bakkies long before the service plan expires.

    it will be expected to do this work for at least 8 years, by which time it will long since have paid for itself, and I would then like to retire it, as my own personal hunting fishing and camping/exploring vehicle.

    unfortunately, the V8 is just too expensive. So it’s a non starter to even consider it.

    So I have to choose between the donkey 1HZ and the V6. I have lots of experience driving both. I know the V6 is going to be much better on the open road, but low range bundu bashing the 1HZ is better.

    in terms of the long term life I am expecting from the car, I also know the 1HZ trumps there, as it will still be running on unfiltered waste cooling oil long after fossil fuel production has ceased, but I’m worried about living with it on the open road towing with a full load. I know it will happily do it all day at 100-110, but overtaking trucks and so on is a pain.

    with the V6 though, consumption is a serious concern, especially on a car that will be doing at least 50k km a year, and is a work tool, that needs to be paying for itself. On paper the consumption is not that big a difference between them, Toyota claim 14.4/100 for the V6 and 12.2 for the 1HZ, but I know, I’m reality, towing with the 1HZ at 100kmh I will get close to the stated figures, but with the V6 it will be a whole lot closer to 18…. Or am I wrong.

    so I guess my questions actually after a very long ramble:

    In real life, how heavy is the V6 when towing (lets be honest and say if I went of the V6 I would probably be cruising closer to 120 instead of 110, which would be my limit on the 1HZ)?

    And secondly, considering I want this car to keep live a very tough life for 6 years, and then continue living a tough, but more recreational life for at least another 10 after that, would the V6 survive?

    and lastly, even though I said above not to suggest anything other than a cruiser, should there be any other vehicles on my shortlist? If Nissan did a Dcab patrol pick up, I would consider that, but for some reason they don’t believe there is a market for that, amd since the Defender 130 is no longer on the market, and I must buy new, what else could one consider?
    Last edited by Scheepers85; 2021/06/21 at 01:23 AM.

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    Default Re: 79 DC 1HZ vs V6

    Whenever i sit with a decision like that I draw up a table to show me the differences in the actual cost.


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    When I started doing this I changed over to Petrol vehicles, but my KM's are way less and it works out differently. Now though even with higher km's I would stay with petrol, I got spoiled by the smooth ride and power.
    Last edited by Bex; 2021/06/21 at 08:55 AM.

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    Default Re: 79 DC 1HZ vs V6

    With the Petrol the first year's fuel is free because of the lower cost of vehicle.
    If you add in the lower finance cost you only break even near the middle of the 2nd year.

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    Default Re: 79 DC 1HZ vs V6

    Quote Originally Posted by Bex View Post
    Whenever i sit with a decision like that I draw up a table to show me the differences in the actual cost.


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    When I started doing this I changed over to Petrol vehicles, but my KM's are way less and it works out differently. Now though even with higher km's I would stay with petrol, I got spoiled by the smooth ride and power.
    Bex, according to your table the diesel makes more sense in the long run based on fuel cost alone. One might suggest that the 1hz costs more to maintain, but the R200k difference in fuel costs will cover services too. Based on that alone, the diesel is a no brainer in this application. I love petrol cars - but for large, heavy long distance vehicles like a 79 I would opt for diesel. It's slower, NVH is down there with the worst and you will miss out on the V6 smoothness... But over 8 years, according to Bex, you can save 200k while still driving one of the most reliable Toyota engines ever built

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    Default Re: 79 DC 1HZ vs V6

    Disclaimer, I just quickly pulled those numbers of the internet to combine with the consumption numbers given to give an example.

    I did however get 8.9 km/L with my FJ on a 1400km trip recently while my brother got 9.1 with his Amarok V6, so real world consumption figures depend on a lot of things.

    Also don't completely discount the impact that service costs out past 200 000km can have. I don't know the costs, but they could shift the balance.

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    Default Re: 79 DC 1HZ vs V6

    Quote Originally Posted by Bex View Post
    Whenever i sit with a decision like that I draw up a table to show me the differences in the actual cost.


    Name:  Screenshot 2021-06-21 085223.jpg
Views: 863
Size:  51.4 KB

    When I started doing this I changed over to Petrol vehicles, but my KM's are way less and it works out differently. Now though even with higher km's I would stay with petrol, I got spoiled by the smooth ride and power.
    Ho, thanks yes, I have drawn up a similar spreadsheet when I initially started thinking of this, but then it was between the V8 and the V6, and then the petrol makes loads of sense, since they have near identical service costs, and the the V8 is significantly more expensive.

    my concern with this comparison between the 1HZ and the 1GR, is that the realistic real world consumption figures for the 1GR will be no where near the claimed ones. Towing, or even just fully loaded, if you cruise at 120, that 1GR will be closer to 17l/100, and off road, it is very thirsty.

    The 1HZ is slow, but gets close to it’s claimed figures under real world working conditions. The argument could be just to slow down a bit with the 1GR, but if I’m going to be driving 20% slower just to save fuel, I may as well have just bought the 1HZ anyway.

    plus, for long term reliability, obviously nothing can touch the 1HZ (I will budget for a gearbox overhaul around 150k km, since we all know they are now days not what they used to be, and when the diffs self destruct, I will try get 80series centres, but the motor will last forever)

    I think the obvious choice here will end up being the 1HZ, but man, every time a Kalahari farmer overtakes me with his cattle trailer in tow in his V6 I’m going wonder if I made the right choice…

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    Default Re: 79 DC 1HZ vs V6

    [QUOTE=Bex;4665389]Disclaimer, I just quickly pulled those numbers of the internet to combine with the consumption numbers given to give an example.

    I did however get 8.9 km/L with my FJ on a 1400km trip recently while my brother got 9.1 with his Amarok V6, so real world consumption figures depend on a lot of things.

    Also don't completely discount the impact that service costs out past 200 000km can have. I don't know the costs, but they could shift the balance.[/QUOTE]

    With cruisers it’s actually the service costs in the first 100k km that one needs to consider. To keep the 3 year/100k km warranty, Toyota expects you to service the 1HZ every 5000km. Now if it was just an oil change I would be okay with that, but they do wheel bearings and so on at rather extreme intervals on these, and at dealership prices it adds up pretty fast.

    Hopefully with the new law on third party workshops being allowed to service care without affecting the warranty will help here, but it’s still twice as many services on the 1HZ compared to the 1GR.

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    Default Re: 79 DC 1HZ vs V6

    In a direct comparison with our 1HZ and v6, single cabs and never towing, but loaded our real world consumption was at 20l/100 on the v6 and the 1HZ was at 18.4l/100
    Mike

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    Default Re: 79 DC 1HZ vs V6

    My V6 Dc in normal driving I work on 6km/l, when towing never better than 5km/l (I don't tow often).

    Neither of your choices are great tow vehicles for big loads. The V8 would be miles better.

    The other thing to consider is that after 8 years and 400k the V6 will be coming to the end of it's usable life cycle, whereas the 1HZ will still have plenty of legs.
    Last edited by RobH; 2021/06/21 at 09:56 AM.

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    Default Re: 79 DC 1HZ vs V6

    Quote Originally Posted by RobH View Post
    My V6 Dc in normal driving I work on 6km/l, when towing never better than 5km/l (I don't tow often).

    Neither of your choices are great tow vehicles for big loads. The V8 would be miles better.

    The other thing to consider is that after 8 years and 400k the V6 will be coming to the end of it's usable life cycle, whereas the 1HZ will still have plenty of legs.
    Thanks rob…. I think the bit in bold is the kicker here. I wish I could stretch for a V8, but they are absurdly expensive for what you get, and then the same might be true for its working life span.

    luckily my towing isn’t particularly heavy towing.

    I don’t know why I even started this thread, I knew from the outset it would have to be the 1HZ…

    now off to Toyota to find out how long I am going to have to wait… the last time a bought a cruiser the waiting list was looooong, and that was before we had even heard of the concept of a global pandemic.

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    Default Re: 79 DC 1HZ vs V6

    Maybe a matter of driving style. On road I prefer the V6, off road the 1Hz. I've changed to the V6 for trips. The long drives to ones destination is a bit less stressful, for overtaking etc.
    Last edited by JLK; 2021/06/21 at 10:11 AM.
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    Default Re: 79 DC 1HZ vs V6

    Quote Originally Posted by JLK View Post
    Maybe a matter of driving style. On road I prefer the V6, off road the 1Hz. I've changed to the V6 for trips. The long drives to ones destination is a bit less stressful, for overtaking etc.
    im with you 100%, I love the V6 on road, and that is where the bulk of the miles are done. But the hard work is done off road, and mostly in the mountains/rocky terrain, not really much sand. If I was going to be working Nc or Namibia, and sand was going to be a major factor, I would have gone V6 without a doubt…

    eish….. why must the V8 diesel be so flipped expensive…

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    Default Re: 79 DC 1HZ vs V6

    Quote Originally Posted by Scheepers85 View Post

    I don’t know why I even started this thread, I knew from the outset it would have to be the 1HZ…
    You started the thread because you really rather wanted the V6.
    Life is too short for regrets

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    Default Re: 79 DC 1HZ vs V6

    I am still in two minds about the V8. It that 100k extra for the engine worth it.
    Johan Kriel

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    Default Re: 79 DC 1HZ vs V6

    Quote Originally Posted by JLK View Post
    I am still in two minds about the V8. It that 100k extra for the engine worth it.
    ya, that buys a lot of extra fuel for the V6… if my mileage was lower, I would go for the V6 in a heartbeat.

    I have just gone and looked over the last years fuel logs, I may have been overstating mileage, it’s probably going to be closer to 3500/4000 a month. But it’s still a lot. The fuel savings on the 1HZ will make a big difference on the overall operating costs…. But here I am still trying to convince myself the V6 is viable.

    I guess the big issue/question is the long term reliability. Will it still give me good service way past 350k km when it becomes my “fun” car. Or will the fuel injection system electronics start acting up and so on, which are concerns I simply won’t have with the 1HZ.

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    Default Re: 79 DC 1HZ vs V6

    Quote Originally Posted by Scheepers85 View Post
    ya, that buys a lot of extra fuel for the V6… if my mileage was lower, I would go for the V6 in a heartbeat.

    I have just gone and looked over the last years fuel logs, I may have been overstating mileage, it’s probably going to be closer to 3500/4000 a month. But it’s still a lot. The fuel savings on the 1HZ will make a big difference on the overall operating costs…. But here I am still trying to convince myself the V6 is viable.

    I guess the big issue/question is the long term reliability. Will it still give me good service way past 350k km when it becomes my “fun” car. Or will the fuel injection system electronics start acting up and so on, which are concerns I simply won’t have with the 1HZ.
    The only thing I miss on the 1Hz is that engine sound at low low revs. Off road the V6 is not bad, just use the short gear more often.
    Last edited by JLK; 2021/06/21 at 11:39 AM.
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    Default Re: 79 DC 1HZ vs V6

    Going down to 3500 reduce the fuel difference over 8 year by another R27 K

    Is the V6 engine life really that much lower than the Diesel?

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    Default Re: 79 DC 1HZ vs V6

    Buy the diesel, that's my 2CW. Personally, I will always choose a diesel vehicle over a petrol one, especially for a workhorse...
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    Default Re: 79 DC 1HZ vs V6

    Or... Buy 1hz now for work purposes, then sell after 8 years and buy 2nd hand V6 for leisure

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    Default Re: 79 DC 1HZ vs V6

    Quote Originally Posted by JLK View Post
    The only thing I miss on the 1Hz is that engine sound at low low revs. Off road the V6 is not bad, just use the short gear more often.
    Have to agree, the sound of a 1HZ at low revs is something else, they just feel and sound so right off road in the slow rough stuff. But for all round use I would go with the V6 and just tolerate the fuel consumption difference, in the current market the V6 is actually a good value proposition.

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