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  1. #61
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    Default Re: Double Cabs - How Capable is Capable??

    Quote Originally Posted by KurtG View Post
    Well Roelf, have a look at this video and note that the Isuzu didn’t perform very well at all. I was surprised.

    https://youtu.be/_vFGcfKQ_8s
    So the D-Max was their choice.

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    Default Re: Double Cabs - How Capable is Capable??

    I can relate a little real world experience. We have a 2010 Hilux and a 2012 Ranger. Both single cabs, but still as they are similar vehicles so probably a good comparison.

    In simple terms, the Hilux runs rings around the Ford in any off-road situation. A large part of that is because the Hilux has 15"rims while the Ford has 16" (meaning higher profile tyres on the Lux).. But other than that, the Hilux has significantly better clearance at all levels. Never mind the mathematical numbers, the Ford will start scraping a long long time before the Hilux even knows there is a problem.


    On the other hand, for gravel road driving, the Ford is simply miles ahead of the Hilux. For some reason Toyota in general are terrible gravel road handlers, witness also the same problem with Tuna who love to turn belly up.

    One more thing, the Hilux certainly has a much "harder" body than the Fords, don't knw if that is still the case with the newer models.


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  4. #63
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    Default Re: Double Cabs - How Capable is Capable??

    Quote Originally Posted by RoelfleRoux View Post
    So the D-Max was their choice.
    Ag sorry Roelf, I posted the wrong link. Go look at my edited post for the updated link.

    PS - this also proves that if there was a double cab bakkie test done 5 times, with 5 vehicles, by 5 different publications, then each bakkie would have a chance to win…. Such is motoring journalism these days

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    Default Re: Double Cabs - How Capable is Capable??

    Quote Originally Posted by Reenen View Post
    Ek doen gereeld sneeu. Ek het n truuk uitgedink wat baie goed werk vir my. My navara kom daarmee elke keer baie verder as enige van die ander voertuie. Elke keer kan ek uit gaan, verder as enige van die “hardcore” voertuie.
    Gaan jy ons nou maar so laat hang?😁
    There is never a right time to do the wrong thing and never a wrong time to do the right thing!

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  7. #65
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    Default Re: Double Cabs - How Capable is Capable??

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueRocket View Post
    So you have a modified bakkie with mud terrain tires on...

    How can you compare and say new vehicles with standard tires are worse in mud and snow?
    Because you can't fit high profile 16 inch tyres to some new Bakkies. They physically can't fit the rim size.

    Honest question, but remind me what is the smallest rim size you can fit to an Amarok? 18inch? Do they even have true low range?

    Old Bakkies were work horses and uncomfortable. New Bakkies are comfortable but aimed at a different market in my opinion. Most don't see hard work, be it offroad or carrying, probably just driven to the mall and flex when going over a curb

    I would never buy a Ford like mine again, there is so much I dislike, never mind the R50k engine overhaul and the R15k gear box overhaul. I would actually probably never buy a Ford again period. If I wanted it for just around town then sure, but the roads I drive and trails we do, Nah.

    My choice for a newish bakkie would be an Isuzu or a later model D4D. I think Isuzu Bakkies are really solid and don't have enough representation, and I just love the D4D ( thanks to Francois at 4xlux), treat those engines with good oil changes and maintenance and they go for ever.

    The car I wish I had bought when we had the 2.8TDi Colt 4x2 is the 4x4 version. That is a fantastic ride, great ground clearance, solid engine, very solid interior, 31 inch tyres standard ( at the time that was good), but like an idiot I thought the ford looks better.
    Last edited by Walnut; 2021/06/14 at 06:59 AM.
    2008 Ford Ranger 3.0 XLT 4x4

  8. #66
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    Default Re: Double Cabs - How Capable is Capable??

    Quote Originally Posted by C Africa View Post

    One more thing, the Hilux certainly has a much "harder" body than the Fords, don't knw if that is still the case with the newer models.


    C
    Regarding harder body, yes. We bent a fords tail bin out sideways when loading sand. Tail gate wouldn't shut...
    On our friends farm in Calvinia the work horse is still a 1980 something Hilux. It's uncomfortable, slow and pretty vrot inside. But it hauls ass everyday without complaint and apart from the odd puncture, doesn't break down.
    Last edited by Walnut; 2021/06/14 at 07:05 AM.
    2008 Ford Ranger 3.0 XLT 4x4

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    Default Re: Double Cabs - How Capable is Capable??

    Quote Originally Posted by Walnut View Post
    Because you can't fit high profile 16 inch tyres to some new Bakkies. They physically can't fit the rim size.

    Honest question, but remind me what is the smallest rim size you can fit to an Amarok? 18inch? Do they even have true low range?
    I have 17-inch rims on my V6, with 265/70 profile BFGs. I speak under correction, but I think the 2-litre has smaller brake rotors, so might be able to go down to 16-inch.

    In terms of capability, I have done the full 3Provinces trail (when it was wet and muddy), and part of Bex's Klein Pella trails and a morning in the dunes. The main thing holding me back from doing more was my inexperience and fear of damaging my vehicle (I did some minor damage at 3Provinces). The V6 auto certainly doesn't have low range, but a "lower than usual" 1st gear, which I don't believe is a substitute for low range. However, as is often quoted, the Amarok is surprisingly capable (in the right hands, which mine aren't), and certainly a pleasure to drive over long distances.

    That's after 2,5 years of ownership.
    Last edited by Ama-newbie; 2021/06/14 at 07:08 AM. Reason: added my experience
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  11. #68
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    Default Re: Double Cabs - How Capable is Capable??

    Quote Originally Posted by Ama-newbie View Post
    I have 17-inch rims on my V6, with 265/70 profile BFGs. I speak under correction, but I think the 2-litre has smaller brake rotors, so might be able to go down to 16-inch.

    In terms of capability, I have done the full 3Provinces trail (when it was wet and muddy), and part of Bex's Klein Pella trails and a morning in the dunes. The main thing holding me back from doing more was my inexperience and fear of damaging my vehicle (I did some minor damage at 3Provinces). The V6 auto certainly doesn't have low range, but a "lower than usual" 1st gear, which I don't believe is a substitute for low range. However, as is often quoted, the Amarok is surprisingly capable (in the right hands, which mine aren't), and certainly a pleasure to drive over long distances.

    That's after 2,5 years of ownership.

    It is called dismissive ignorance.. When you actively state your assumptions as fact, because it fits your mindset.
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  13. #69
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    Default Re: Double Cabs - How Capable is Capable??

    Quote Originally Posted by Ama-newbie View Post
    I have 17-inch rims on my V6, with 265/70 profile BFGs. I speak under correction, but I think the 2-litre has smaller brake rotors, so might be able to go down to 16-inch.

    In terms of capability, I have done the full 3Provinces trail (when it was wet and muddy), and part of Bex's Klein Pella trails and a morning in the dunes. The main thing holding me back from doing more was my inexperience and fear of damaging my vehicle (I did some minor damage at 3Provinces). The V6 auto certainly doesn't have low range, but a "lower than usual" 1st gear, which I don't believe is a substitute for low range. However, as is often quoted, the Amarok is surprisingly capable (in the right hands, which mine aren't), and certainly a pleasure to drive over long distances.

    That's after 2,5 years of ownership.
    Thank you for correcting me, what year is yours? I was going off a magazine article of Bakkies being tested in Bots by SA 4x4, they complained of the rim size.
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    Default Re: Double Cabs - How Capable is Capable??

    Quote Originally Posted by Hedgehog View Post
    It is called dismissive ignorance.. When you actively state your assumptions as fact, because it fits your mindset.
    Happy to be corrected, that's why I asked the question. We all base our mind sets in our experiences, they make up my assumptions.

    Last thing I am saying is that I think older cars were tougher than newer ones. They were more uncomfortable and tried to kill you on road, but they were designed to work. Double cabs were to work all day, but still take the family to church on Sundays.

    Newer bakkies are more flash, have driver aids, , handle the road better and are very comfy to drive, but in that they have lost the "hardcore workhorse" aspect.

    Depends what you want, I don't want that.
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    Default Re: Double Cabs - How Capable is Capable??

    Wat rim size betref. Op my v9x navara, verkies ek baie eerder 33” muds op 17”, as 33” op 15” rims (al kan ek nie 15” op kry nie). Op my patrol het ek beide probeer, maar bo 130km/h raak die voertuig baie wobbly met die 33” op 15”

    33 op 17 gee nog n redelikke sidewall, met goeie pad maniere. So ek sal nie sommer bloot sę kleiner rims is altyd beter
    Vrywaring: Niks wat ek hier kwyt raak moet hoegenaamd as feite beskou word nie.

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  17. #72
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    Default Re: Double Cabs - How Capable is Capable??

    Typical thread when comparing 4x4 vehicles. I lived in Saudi Arabia for 16 years, had two brand new Pajero's in a row. Was awesome in the sanddunes where we played every weekend. I can swear by it.

    Got back to S A 4 years ago, bought a Ford Ranger Wildtrack and I can swear by it. Been to Hell (Gamkaskloof) and back every month since then, through snow, floods, rivers, extreme bad roads, dust, mud .... you name it ... been through it. MY bakkie has just performed excellently. So, would I admit that a Hilux or anything else is better.... I can't as I don't have the empirical reference experience on it like I have with my Ranger in S A or my 1999 Defender in Khaudum (2x) Namibia.

    Very difficult to be neutral about something I don't have experience on. IMO go with what you have and stick with it. Learn how to use it and keep it fighting fit with the right equipment on board. Listen to experience from friends and users on the brand, not their hearsay or loyalty evidence....

    Buy what you need!

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  19. #73
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    Default Re: Double Cabs - How Capable is Capable??

    BLIKSEM!!!!!! But that is forking nice.......

    Quote Originally Posted by Redman View Post
    Standard?

    Problem solved

    Attachment 618243

  20. #74
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    Default Re: Double Cabs - How Capable is Capable??

    Quote Originally Posted by Walnut View Post
    Because you can't fit high profile 16 inch tyres to some new Bakkies. They physically can't fit the rim size.

    Honest question, but remind me what is the smallest rim size you can fit to an Amarok? 18inch? Do they even have true low range?

    Old Bakkies were work horses and uncomfortable. New Bakkies are comfortable but aimed at a different market in my opinion. Most don't see hard work, be it offroad or carrying, probably just driven to the mall and flex when going over a curb

    I would never buy a Ford like mine again, there is so much I dislike, never mind the R50k engine overhaul and the R15k gear box overhaul. I would actually probably never buy a Ford again period. If I wanted it for just around town then sure, but the roads I drive and trails we do, Nah.

    My choice for a newish bakkie would be an Isuzu or a later model D4D. I think Isuzu Bakkies are really solid and don't have enough representation, and I just love the D4D ( thanks to Francois at 4xlux), treat those engines with good oil changes and maintenance and they go for ever.

    The car I wish I had bought when we had the 2.8TDi Colt 4x2 is the 4x4 version. That is a fantastic ride, great ground clearance, solid engine, very solid interior, 31 inch tyres standard ( at the time that was good), but like an idiot I thought the ford looks better.
    u can fit 17 inch on a V6 and the manual rok does have low range diff lock etc. auto have diff lock and electronics to help and it goes quite far on a trail but yes its not a grade 5 vehicle.


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  22. #75
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    Default Re: Double Cabs - How Capable is Capable??

    Quote Originally Posted by Walnut View Post
    Thank you for correcting me, what year is yours? I was going off a magazine article of Bakkies being tested in Bots by SA 4x4, they complained of the rim size.
    Mine is a 2018 model (October 2018 to be precise)... And I believe rim size is dictated by the size of the brake rotor/disk. That's why I expect them to be slightly smaller on the 2L models (less performance), and hence being able to fit a 16-inch rim. But on this I stand to be corrected...
    Rob Kirk

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    Default Re: Double Cabs - How Capable is Capable??

    Quote Originally Posted by Ama-newbie View Post
    Mine is a 2018 model (October 2018 to be precise)... And I believe rim size is dictated by the size of the brake rotor/disk. That's why I expect them to be slightly smaller on the 2L models (less performance), and hence being able to fit a 16-inch rim. But on this I stand to be corrected...
    The Amarok did come out with 16" rims initially.
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    Default Re: Double Cabs - How Capable is Capable??

    Quote Originally Posted by Walnut View Post
    Because you can't fit high profile 16 inch tyres to some new Bakkies. They physically can't fit the rim size.

    Honest question, but remind me what is the smallest rim size you can fit to an Amarok? 18inch? Do they even have true low range?

    Old Bakkies were work horses and uncomfortable. New Bakkies are comfortable but aimed at a different market in my opinion. Most don't see hard work, be it offroad or carrying, probably just driven to the mall and flex when going over a curb

    I would never buy a Ford like mine again, there is so much I dislike, never mind the R50k engine overhaul and the R15k gear box overhaul. I would actually probably never buy a Ford again period. If I wanted it for just around town then sure, but the roads I drive and trails we do, Nah.

    My choice for a newish bakkie would be an Isuzu or a later model D4D. I think Isuzu Bakkies are really solid and don't have enough representation, and I just love the D4D ( thanks to Francois at 4xlux), treat those engines with good oil changes and maintenance and they go for ever.

    The car I wish I had bought when we had the 2.8TDi Colt 4x2 is the 4x4 version. That is a fantastic ride, great ground clearance, solid engine, very solid interior, 31 inch tyres standard ( at the time that was good), but like an idiot I thought the ford looks better.

    Capable is also not only 4x4 trail capable. It is tar road comfort, towing ability, overtaking ability etc. Newer vehicles are more capable in all these respects.
    I love old cars, the driving experience, the mechanical feel, the sense of reliability etc, but new cars are just better in most respects.

    Every time that I sell a car I wonder if I am making a mistake, will I miss the old one? Will the new one be as reliable? as capable? BUT after I get the new one I very seldomly miss the old car, simply because newer cars just drive so much nicer.

    I recently did a 4x4 trail with a friend. I drove my 2001 Hilux 2700i with Cooper A/T tyres and lifted suspension. He drove his 2016 Hilux 2.8GD6 Auto, stock standard.
    He scraped a few places because of clearance, but other than that, the newer bakkie did the trail with less effort than the old one.

    What does count against the new D/C bakkies are their size. They have become quite big...
    Last edited by BlueRocket; 2021/06/14 at 11:24 AM.
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  26. #78
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    Default Re: Double Cabs - How Capable is Capable??

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueRocket View Post
    Capable is also not only 4x4 trail capable. It is tar road comfort, towing ability, overtaking ability etc. Newer vehicles are more capable in all these respects.
    Care to read the OP's intention about this thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Petri Oosthuizen View Post
    Its about the term "offroad capability".

    What would YOU say defines a capable DC 4x4?? 4x4 Capabilities ONLY......not resale value, or service levels etc etc......ONLY what you perceive as a capable DC 4X4 , and why??

    If you are buying a new DC, and your ONLY consideration is this........what would "attract" you most??

    Lets talk current Models only, off the floor specs only....................AND, to keep things interesting, lets exclude the 79 Cruiser - its a SFA, and has twin lockers. I classify that as a "hard" 4x4 DC, so we'll talk about the "softer" offerings with IFS and all those nice bells and whistles

    So...to sum up......: HOW CAPABLE DOES YOUR DREAM 4X4 D/CAB NEED TO BE??

    ?
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    Default Re: Double Cabs - How Capable is Capable??

    Quote Originally Posted by HugoNotte View Post
    Care to read the OP's intention about this thread?

    I was mainly referring to the tire/rim size and the new vs old vehicle argument that started. Newer vehicles have bigger rims to make them more capable with respects to handling and higher speeds or to accommodate bigger brakes. It does not always make them less capable on a 4x4 track as I have explained in my post when we did a 4x4 trail in my old Hilux vs a newer one.

    Is offroad capability only 4x4 trails? Or is it also offroad touring/overlanding? Offoad towing? Safety offroad? All of these make a double cab offroad capable, depending on what you see as the most important.

    HOW CAPABLE DOES YOUR DREAM 4X4 D/CAB NEED TO BE??

    As I said in a previous post, who cares? it depends what YOU use it for. And for everyone that is different!
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    Default Re: Double Cabs - How Capable is Capable??

    Just came off a trip from Botswana with a mixed variety of dubblecabs.

    Amarok, Ford, Toyotas.

    All the vehicles did very good. The best fuel consumption was the stock standard "plaasbakkie" d\cab 2,4 GDE Toyota. And it was towing a trailer!!

    The Amarok did very well but we always had a bit of trouble when reversing up-hill in thick sand.

    Then the 2 .2 Diesel Ford. Although a bit low and sometimes in the thick sandtracks look like a speeadboat crashing through waves, also did very well.

    And there was a Hilux v6 and the Cruiser...

    You don't really get bad 4 x 4's. It is all about perceptions.

    Mostly the nut holding the steering wheel makes it a capable car or not.
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