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Thread: Gps sales

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Gps sales

    Quote Originally Posted by Redman View Post
    Offline is completely useless for traffic, which is one of the main reasons to have these apps
    You brought up load shedding amd the lack of connectivity during load shedding. In that case having your maps offline means the app functions the same as your Garmin or Tom Tom.

    Garmin also canít provide up to date traffic when there is no internet connection available.

    This is getting silly now. Seems there is a counter argument for everything. Fact is tech has moved on. Spending a few K on a gps device for simple navigation is just silly. If you donít want your phone to be used for too many other things as well, Iím pretty sure most of us have an extra smartphone from your previous upgrade lying around. Even one or two generations back smartphone can handle al the functions of a dedicated GPS and can be your dedicated unit for this.

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Gps sales

    I used to use a Garmin iQue 3600, which was brilliant.

    Nowadays I use a smartphone with HERE WeGo.

    The only feature I really miss, are the excellent Garmap Topo and Recreation maps on the iQue 3600.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity" - Martin Luther king Jr

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  3. #43
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    Default Re: Gps sales

    When we moved to Brisbane I brought my Garmin with me because as a poor immigrant I didnít want to pay mobile data costs. One look at the cost of a map for my Garmin and I was in the App Store looking for an app that could be loaded on my phone with free wifi. I used it just fine for six months, that was the end of the Garmin.

    I use apple maps / Google maps for city driving. Translink for public transport. Komoot for bike and hiking tracks bike map for other cycling routes and maps.me for offline navigation. As a backup my wife and daughter also have a phone.

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    Default Re: Gps sales

    Morning

    I have read the whole thread, and do not have a preference to app vs GPS, hmm, maybe I do :-). When trying to do a route calculation, which app other than T4A would provide accurate routing over this point = -31.170408, 28.000793?
    (Sorry Google coordinates, i.e Bastervoet pass)
    -------------------

    Corne
    2007 Fortuner 3.0 D-4D 4x4 (Die Koets)
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    Default Re: Gps sales

    Do you guys watch itchy boots on YouTube?

    She rides through countries on her motorbike alone, just crossed into Namibia recently.

    Nice blog on why she is using a Satnav now: https://www.itchyboots.com/blog/why-...-me-to-statnav
    2008 Ford Ranger 3.0 XLT 4x4

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  7. #46
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    Default Re: Gps sales

    Quote Originally Posted by Flatspot View Post
    Morning

    I have read the whole thread, and do not have a preference to app vs GPS, hmm, maybe I do :-). When trying to do a route calculation, which app other than T4A would provide accurate routing over this point = -31.170408, 28.000793?
    (Sorry Google coordinates, i.e Bastervoet pass)
    This is how it would show up for me on different map layers at different zoom levels, I choose a layer depending on what I want to do. If i want to go where there are no roads I choose the satelite image so i can see the obstacles.
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    This app does not do routing, you have to do it yourself. I use the app when I go where you have to put your own route together. I find T4A to be too haphazard, I often find people using T4A unable to figure out where they actually need to go.

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  9. #47
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    Default Re: Gps sales

    To answer the OP question. We also sell Garmin units, you can have a look at www.tracks4africa.co.za. I think our prices are not too bad.


    I thought of weighing in on this discussion for a few reasons. The first is that T4A is being discussed and I find that there are a few opinions which need clarification. The second is that I think of myself as someone who uses various navigation systems very frequently and test quite a few different data sets and apps as well as different Garmin models. I am also managing the T4A company and part of my role is to research this very discussion. And then lastly I need to put in the disclaimer that I am T4A biast :-)


    I divide my use of navigation technology into three categories: Trip Planning, Navigation/Exploration and Trip Reporting.

    And I should say my use case is focused on overland travelling. City navigation is not considered here, for that I simply use Google on my phone which is always with me and most often I start with a Google search and then hand over to the maps to take me there.

    Trip PLanning

    Regardless of the map I use I feel it is important that the map on which you plan a trip, also needs to be the map with which you navigate the trip. And if you are missing some information on your map and you find it on other sources then you want to bring this in as waypoints or lines to your navigation system. My prefered planning tool remains Basecamp. I augment this with Google searches and the use of Google Earth, but I bring the results of what I find back into Basecamp as points and lines. I would also download various sources of data to overlay in Basecamp, e.g. iOverlander points can be downloaded from their website and imported to Basecamp in GPX or KML format. The same goes for subsets of the OSM data. I sometimes download a Garmin compatible map from OSM and sometimes just extract the POI category I am looking for.

    Once my planning is done I convert all routes to tracks. I export the tracks and waypoints I collected or marked on the map as GPX data. This gives me a digital record of what I was aiming to do.


    Navigation/Exploration

    Some people plan their trips in detail, others would simply take of and explore along the way. Therefore both use cases must be catered for. I take a Garmin GPS with me for a few reasons: I can install my T4A map to it, I can import my trip plan to it, I can get accurate track recording from it and with the archive function I know my tracks a preserved for later use, I want to be able to do route calculations on the same map as which I planned on and I want the settings to behave in the same way.

    The Garmin does all of the above extremely well. What it is not good at is exploration mode. I find it hard to use the map for browsing on the Garmin and here various apps are doing a way better job. I have overseen the development of the T4A Guide App with the specific purpose of bringing good cartography to an app and to be able to use it all offline. So for exploration I use the T4A Guide App. It shows my position on the T4A map and the cartography is done in such a way that all map points display with labels and it is easy to find places of interest around you. This week I also tested the new version which allows me to import and overlay my trip plan. That makes it even better as now I can have my trip plan on the map and on the Garmin. It is a simply GPX and KML import, so I can use the same trip plan that I created on Basecamp.

    In using the Guide App and developing it I have come to learn a few things about phones, tablets and the operating systems they use. On Android we experienced for extended periods of time the loss of satellite location. This was not only on our app, but also on Maps.me and Google Maps. This problem has passed but in our research it became evident that your phone's location service is heavily influenced by the operating system and I am sorry but no one will convince me that it is as reliable as a dedicated GPS like Garmin which does not have the interference from other aspects of the operating system. I also experienced a similar situation on an iPad Mini on my last trip. If not used for a while, and then switched on where there is no internet connection, the iPad failed to find a location, although it has a GPS chip (model with cellphone ability). I could get it to work when we passed through cell phone coverage and it tells me that somehow the operating system interferes with the working of the GPS. Maybe a calendar update not running from the satellite to save battery time? Who knows? But again I realised how important my stand alone GPS becomes.

    If you are using phones and tablets then also consider your charging environment - you need to make it as robust as possible.

    I also don't like to be relying on internet to be able to load or retrieve data from the navigation device. There a Garmin still allows me to hook it up to my laptop and exchange data.

    Trip Reporting

    While I am on a trip I want my tracks to be recorded and I might create waypoints along the way.

    Back home I use the tracks to geotag all my photos and to create a data submission for T4A and to mark up any errors that I found on the trip. I also like to save this for future reference and I have an archive of folders in which I save trip plans and trip tracks. Do I want this in the cloud, sure but I also want an offline copy of this data.

    In developing track recording for our app we have also learned how restrictive the operating systems are becoming and Google has introduced a host of new privacy measures which have an effect on how your app is allowed to use the device location. For instance any background operation and use of the GPS is scrutinized and as far as possible discouraged. So the goal posts for creating a really good tracking app is moving and I am not yet convinced that tracking will be done better than what I get from the Garmin.

    So in the final analysis I do use my iPad and Android phone a lot for trips, but I always have amy Garmin running full time, recording tracks and ready for navigation should I need it. At this stage I would not leave home without it, it gives me that creepy feeling when you wonder if you have a working spare tyre.

    Which Garmin is probably the next question? My prefered unit remains a Montana 6## as it is small enough not to take up too much space on the dash. It is robust and does the various things I look for in a dedicated GPS very well and it has a proper charging setup which has not let me down yet. I can also fail over to AA batteries should I need to.

    Another popular setup is an entry level Garmin Drive which does routing and track recording just perfect and is simple to use. I would use the spare cash to get an eTrex22 which I can also use on foot, bike or MTB. And if the need arise I can use it as a backup in the car. You can see this as my rain jacket when I go hiking on a mountain on a summer day, but it just has to come along.


    Then there was a comment about T4A being part of OSM. Maybe the intention was different to what came out in writing, but T4A is not part of OSM. OSM and T4A are both examples of maps being created from crowd sourced data, but that is where the similarity ends. OSM strives to provide an open source map which holds immense value to a variety of disciplines, where T4A is squarely focused on overland navigation - a rather niche market compared to any other type of map. To say that every track is on both platforms is an opinion which I doubt is true, but there is obviously a huge overlap in coverage. But navigation goes much deeper that having lines on a map. There is a lot of work on the attributes of each line which has an effect on how routing works and what sort of ETA's your calculation will give.

    My opinion is that similar to how diverse travel methods and styles are and where people can get into discussions about the use of a winch or not, the same goes for navigation. You must choose what works for your style of navigation and what you are comfortable with. I create a product for people who has similar requirements to what I have and if I had a magic wand to create apps with I would extend and improve upon our app offering, but the reality is that it is hard and expensive to develop apps and I also do not find the operating systems to be friendly to what we want to achieve. To date Garmin, with all its faults, remains a tool in my navigation toolbox and I would not go on an extended trip without one. But I also have my phone and iPad with me to perform other tasks related to navigation.

    If there is a Garmin I would love to see then it is one which can replace the double DIN radio of my car. That space is currently wasted.
    Johann Groenewald
    Tracks4Africa

    www.tracks4africa.co.za
    For friendly support staff, call +27 (0)21 880 8660

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  11. #48
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    Default Re: Gps sales

    Quote Originally Posted by Groenie View Post
    To answer the OP question. We also sell Garmin units, you can have a look at www.tracks4africa.co.za. I think our prices are not too bad.


    I thought of weighing in on this discussion for a few reasons. The first is that T4A is being discussed and I find that there are a few opinions which need clarification. The second is that I think of myself as someone who uses various navigation systems very frequently and test quite a few different data sets and apps as well as different Garmin models. I am also managing the T4A company and part of my role is to research this very discussion. And then lastly I need to put in the disclaimer that I am T4A biast :-)


    I divide my use of navigation technology into three categories: Trip Planning, Navigation/Exploration and Trip Reporting.

    And I should say my use case is focused on overland travelling. City navigation is not considered here, for that I simply use Google on my phone which is always with me and most often I start with a Google search and then hand over to the maps to take me there.

    Trip PLanning

    Regardless of the map I use I feel it is important that the map on which you plan a trip, also needs to be the map with which you navigate the trip. And if you are missing some information on your map and you find it on other sources then you want to bring this in as waypoints or lines to your navigation system. My prefered planning tool remains Basecamp. I augment this with Google searches and the use of Google Earth, but I bring the results of what I find back into Basecamp as points and lines. I would also download various sources of data to overlay in Basecamp, e.g. iOverlander points can be downloaded from their website and imported to Basecamp in GPX or KML format. The same goes for subsets of the OSM data. I sometimes download a Garmin compatible map from OSM and sometimes just extract the POI category I am looking for.

    Once my planning is done I convert all routes to tracks. I export the tracks and waypoints I collected or marked on the map as GPX data. This gives me a digital record of what I was aiming to do.


    Navigation/Exploration

    Some people plan their trips in detail, others would simply take of and explore along the way. Therefore both use cases must be catered for. I take a Garmin GPS with me for a few reasons: I can install my T4A map to it, I can import my trip plan to it, I can get accurate track recording from it and with the archive function I know my tracks a preserved for later use, I want to be able to do route calculations on the same map as which I planned on and I want the settings to behave in the same way.

    The Garmin does all of the above extremely well. What it is not good at is exploration mode. I find it hard to use the map for browsing on the Garmin and here various apps are doing a way better job. I have overseen the development of the T4A Guide App with the specific purpose of bringing good cartography to an app and to be able to use it all offline. So for exploration I use the T4A Guide App. It shows my position on the T4A map and the cartography is done in such a way that all map points display with labels and it is easy to find places of interest around you. This week I also tested the new version which allows me to import and overlay my trip plan. That makes it even better as now I can have my trip plan on the map and on the Garmin. It is a simply GPX and KML import, so I can use the same trip plan that I created on Basecamp.

    In using the Guide App and developing it I have come to learn a few things about phones, tablets and the operating systems they use. On Android we experienced for extended periods of time the loss of satellite location. This was not only on our app, but also on Maps.me and Google Maps. This problem has passed but in our research it became evident that your phone's location service is heavily influenced by the operating system and I am sorry but no one will convince me that it is as reliable as a dedicated GPS like Garmin which does not have the interference from other aspects of the operating system. I also experienced a similar situation on an iPad Mini on my last trip. If not used for a while, and then switched on where there is no internet connection, the iPad failed to find a location, although it has a GPS chip (model with cellphone ability). I could get it to work when we passed through cell phone coverage and it tells me that somehow the operating system interferes with the working of the GPS. Maybe a calendar update not running from the satellite to save battery time? Who knows? But again I realised how important my stand alone GPS becomes.

    If you are using phones and tablets then also consider your charging environment - you need to make it as robust as possible.

    I also don't like to be relying on internet to be able to load or retrieve data from the navigation device. There a Garmin still allows me to hook it up to my laptop and exchange data.

    Trip Reporting

    While I am on a trip I want my tracks to be recorded and I might create waypoints along the way.

    Back home I use the tracks to geotag all my photos and to create a data submission for T4A and to mark up any errors that I found on the trip. I also like to save this for future reference and I have an archive of folders in which I save trip plans and trip tracks. Do I want this in the cloud, sure but I also want an offline copy of this data.

    In developing track recording for our app we have also learned how restrictive the operating systems are becoming and Google has introduced a host of new privacy measures which have an effect on how your app is allowed to use the device location. For instance any background operation and use of the GPS is scrutinized and as far as possible discouraged. So the goal posts for creating a really good tracking app is moving and I am not yet convinced that tracking will be done better than what I get from the Garmin.

    So in the final analysis I do use my iPad and Android phone a lot for trips, but I always have amy Garmin running full time, recording tracks and ready for navigation should I need it. At this stage I would not leave home without it, it gives me that creepy feeling when you wonder if you have a working spare tyre.

    Which Garmin is probably the next question? My prefered unit remains a Montana 6## as it is small enough not to take up too much space on the dash. It is robust and does the various things I look for in a dedicated GPS very well and it has a proper charging setup which has not let me down yet. I can also fail over to AA batteries should I need to.

    Another popular setup is an entry level Garmin Drive which does routing and track recording just perfect and is simple to use. I would use the spare cash to get an eTrex22 which I can also use on foot, bike or MTB. And if the need arise I can use it as a backup in the car. You can see this as my rain jacket when I go hiking on a mountain on a summer day, but it just has to come along.


    Then there was a comment about T4A being part of OSM. Maybe the intention was different to what came out in writing, but T4A is not part of OSM. OSM and T4A are both examples of maps being created from crowd sourced data, but that is where the similarity ends. OSM strives to provide an open source map which holds immense value to a variety of disciplines, where T4A is squarely focused on overland navigation - a rather niche market compared to any other type of map. To say that every track is on both platforms is an opinion which I doubt is true, but there is obviously a huge overlap in coverage. But navigation goes much deeper that having lines on a map. There is a lot of work on the attributes of each line which has an effect on how routing works and what sort of ETA's your calculation will give.

    My opinion is that similar to how diverse travel methods and styles are and where people can get into discussions about the use of a winch or not, the same goes for navigation. You must choose what works for your style of navigation and what you are comfortable with. I create a product for people who has similar requirements to what I have and if I had a magic wand to create apps with I would extend and improve upon our app offering, but the reality is that it is hard and expensive to develop apps and I also do not find the operating systems to be friendly to what we want to achieve. To date Garmin, with all its faults, remains a tool in my navigation toolbox and I would not go on an extended trip without one. But I also have my phone and iPad with me to perform other tasks related to navigation.

    If there is a Garmin I would love to see then it is one which can replace the double DIN radio of my car. That space is currently wasted.

    Well now finally someone that fully understands exactly how this works and I agree 100% what Johann says here. To be honest I don't do any off the tar road trips (both planning and navigation) with anything but the T4A mapset as basemap on my rather old but very trustworthy Garmin Montana 650. It just works the best for me. And my co driver has the paper version on hand too. But I do combine that with an Android app (Osmand+) on a 10.1 inch tablet purely as large screen display unit. Old eyes sorry...Also on the tablet I do have my work related data set but only because this set of ever changing data network country wide is way to large to have on just anything and continuesly compiling it to the Garmin platform as a transparent second layer map does work very well on a proper Garmin GPS (no Nuvi please these are city street navigaters) is simply too much effort and time consuming for me. So a bit of both worlds I guess works great for me.... But to just make my point too here. It is all about the qualify of the data on any map. If you keep that current and accurate then it does not really matter what platform you prefer to work on as the navigation engine. Tracks4Africa have always done a great job to keep their data set current and that is why I like these maps.

    Just my 2c worth
    Groetnis
    Johan Cloete
    Last edited by Sakcyb; 2021/06/17 at 12:21 AM.
    Thanks
    Johan Cloete

  12. #49
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    Default Re: Gps sales

    I just love it when you guys speak foreign.

    And I have a day job. All these apps and datasets and downloads and uploads and sharing etc etc are for people who have time to burn.

    I love to experience the wild and not sit glued to a device.

    Paper maps will take you everywhere.. sometimes with a bit of exploring alternative routes along the way.

  13. #50
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    Default Re: Gps sales

    Quote Originally Posted by JCARS View Post
    I just love it when you guys speak foreign.

    And I have a day job. All these apps and datasets and downloads and uploads and sharing etc etc are for people who have time to burn.

    I love to experience the wild and not sit glued to a device.

    Paper maps will take you everywhere.. sometimes with a bit of exploring alternative routes along the way.
    I get you yes and I too still like doing things on paper myself but allow me just this story to explain why GPS technology is very useful for me. We had our biggest fight as a small group of only four probably slightly crazy bundu bashing hikers that enjoyed exploring specifically the top of the Drakensberg escapement way back before GPS was commonly used here in South Africa. Anyway sittting totally lost that day and in trouble in thick mist somewhere on top of The Berg and trying to find our exact position on a section of a 1:50 000 paper map (remember those most of you probably would not) we had with us as the only means of navigation and a good old compas off cause, doing real old time map reading so we could find our way to a cave to shelter in and get out of the real bad weather. Things can change very fast up there. But it was an impossible task simply because we could not see our surroundings well enough to properly read the map and we had no idea anymore where we were on the map and the world up there is definitely not flat people would know that like to do this kind of thing too. It actually gets quite dangerous sometimes like any very remote area would sometimes.

    Anyway my story is getting to long now...So when the first GPS receivers became available here I thought it was the best thing since sliced bread. Simply because it gave you (sort of) a position of earth were you are currently and also left a track how you move around too in real time...wow! Even though these very first units were crazily heavy on batteries, slow as hell, only about 20m accurate at best and very unstable too. Your current position swirled around in a 20m circle like a dog trying to lie down. But hey as soon as you started moving this thing started to drop little bread crumbs where ever you went....absolute magic man! The Americans only much later allowed for much better accuracy again long story that is all old history now. It was also about that time that T4A also started their community based project to start creating a digital 4x4 route map based on actual GPS track logs and this is more or less how they still do it today to try to keep the map current Johann can correct me on that. A never ending task. So yes we do come a long way. I also started using this technology for my work as a power line inspector both aerial and at ground level. It does make a lot of sense here believe me. This kind of thing is not exactly available on paper anymore. It only lives in GIS digital platforms in various ways so you need to extract your information from there. Probably not everyone's cup of tea but for me it just makes my life way easier. But I will always be a big supporter of the T4A mapset because I understand it well enough to use to my own advantage...But everyone has their own way of doing things. I am NOT here to judge.

    Just also to mention for those following Itchy Boots now currently taking on Namibia after touring South Africa. I did mentioned to her that the OSM map set is probably not the best for Africa and pointed her to T4A but I guess time will tell what she chooses to navigate with. I do only wish her a safe ride here but Africa can be a unforgiving bitch sometimes but go well Noraly.....
    Last edited by Sakcyb; 2021/06/17 at 12:26 AM.
    Thanks
    Johan Cloete

  14. #51
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    Default Re: Gps sales

    Quote Originally Posted by Sakcyb View Post
    I get you yes and I too still like doing things on paper myself but allow me just this story to explain why GPS technology is very useful for me. We had our biggest fight as a small group of only four probably slightly crazy bundu bashing hikers that enjoyed exploring specifically the top of the Drakensberg escapement way back before GPS was commonly used here in South Africa. Anyway sittting totally lost that day and in trouble in thick mist somewhere on top of The Berg and trying to find our exact position on a section of a 1:50 000 paper map (remember those most of you probably would not) we had with us as the only means of navigation and a good old compas off cause, doing real old time map reading so we could find our way to a cave to shelter in and get out of the real bad weather. Things can change very fast up there. But it was an impossible task simply because we could not see our surroundings well enough to properly read the map and we had no idea anymore where we were on the map and the world up there is definitely not flat people would know that like to do this kind of thing too. It actually gets quite dangerous sometimes like any very remote area would sometimes.

    Anyway my story is getting to long now...So when the first GPS receivers became available here I thought it was the best thing since sliced bread. Simply because it gave you (sort of) a position of earth were you are currently and also left a track how you move around too in real time...wow! Even though these very first units were crazily heavy on batteries, slow as hell, only about 20m accurate at best and very unstable too. Your current position swirled around in a 20m circle like a dog trying to lie down. But hey as soon as you started moving this thing started to drop little bread crumbs where ever you went....absolute magic man! The Americans only much later allowed for much better accuracy again long story that is all old history now. It was also about that time that T4A also started their community based project to start creating a digital 4x4 route map based on actual GPS track logs and this is more or less how they still do it today to try to keep the map current Johann can correct me on that. A never ending task. So yes we do come a long way. I also started using this technology for my work as a power line inspector both aerial and at ground level. It does make a lot of sense here believe me. This kind of thing is not exactly available on paper anymore. It only lives in GIS digital platforms in various ways so you need to extract your information from there. Probably not everyone's cup of tea but for me it just makes my life way easier. But I will always be a big supporter of the T4A mapset because I understand it well enough to use to my own advantage...But everyone has their own way of doing things. I am NOT here to judge.

    Just also to mention for those following Itchy Boots now currently taking on Namibia after touring South Africa. I did mentioned to her that the OSM map set is probably not the best for Africa and pointed her to T4A but I guess time will tell what see chooses to navigate with. I do only wish her a safe ride here but Africa can be a unforgiving bitch sometimes but go well Noraly.....
    Hi Johan, yes you are correct that this is how it all started. The selective availability on the GPS satellites were switched off during 2001 and the tracks we collected after that was quite accurate, but it all depends on the terrain and where you placed the device.

    Fast forward a decade and Location was catching on as the next utility. It very quickly moved from geek value to necessity value. The GPS sales spiked and companies like Garmin was in the right place to capitalize on this. Then smartphones started to become more common and GPS chipsets were incorporated into them. Today, thousands of apps and businesses would not exist if it was not for Location. Think about Uber as a concept.

    Around 2004, Steve Coast started OSM but it really only started to gain traction a few years later. By that time T4A had a sizable and routable database going and we caught the attention of Google who entered into a data license agreement with us for 5 years. I was fortunate enough to meet Steve Coast in New York at a map conference and we ended up having some beers in a local bar where we contemplated the idea of merging T4A into OSM. He actually advised me that it would not be a good idea and that we have the chance to make a commercial run at it. At that stage OSM had very bad quality data entering the map and the thinking was that curated data from GPS recordings would make for a much more accurate map, especially in the context of Overlanding. Today OSM is very accurate in many countries. In 2007 I quit my day job to work on T4A full time.

    In the old days the only data we could use was GPS track recordings and because we mostly mapped remote areas we had the three independent track recording rule which required that we receive a track from three independent travellers before publishing it. But with the introduction of Google Earth and several other location data sources we could adjust our approach a lot over the years. First prize is still a virgin GPS track from a trusted traveller with whom we can correspond, but in many cases we are simply told about road changes and we go and find it. E.g. a new bridge is being built or an existing one washed away. This has a profound effect on routing. We also did quite a bit of commercial GIS work for corporates who required bespoke digital maps and this extended our city and town coverage in many African countries.

    We are also able to use simple Google searches to find data we are looking for. Raw GPS recorded data is flying around the web all the time and we maintain like we always had; raw GPS tracks in itself does not hold the value, it is the extracted and curated information from it that creates the value.

    We also partner with companies who does surveys in Africa and enable them with our maps and technology in exchange for accurate data from their work. This leads to vasts amounts of fresh data entering our system from time to time.

    But at its core, the Tracks4Africa data can only be maintained via travellers themselves. So, if any of you see errors on our maps, I invite you to mail us and tell us about it. If you can substantiate your comment with a recorded GPS track that is even better. My old partner, Wouter Brand, always told the story of the honey badger and the honey bird. The bird would lead the badger to a beehive knowing that the badger would be able to break it open and extract the honey and the badger would always spill some honey for the bird. That is why we use the badger as our data community icon. (I don't know if there is any scientific truth in this story, but let's not spoil it with the facts)

    Safe travels
    Johann Groenewald
    Tracks4Africa

    www.tracks4africa.co.za
    For friendly support staff, call +27 (0)21 880 8660

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  16. #52
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    Johan, with respect to the license agreement with Google, was it John Hanke who came out many moons ago for a meeting with T4A in the Paarl area?
    Mike Lauterbach

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeml View Post
    Johan, with respect to the license agreement with Google, was it John Hanke who came out many moons ago for a meeting with T4A in the Paarl area?
    Indeed it was John Hanke, who is now probably more famous for creating Pokemon Go. He was one of the founding members of Keyhole, which later became Google Earth.

    We took him and a colleague into Cederberg for a weekend where we showed him how we map remote tracks and the importance of offline navigation. Then there was a long Q&A session back at the office. Shortly after that Google's own community mapping initiative was launched, MapMaker. A more experienced Me would have made more of that visit, but we were just too happy to share our maps!
    Johann Groenewald
    Tracks4Africa

    www.tracks4africa.co.za
    For friendly support staff, call +27 (0)21 880 8660

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    Quote Originally Posted by Groenie View Post
    Indeed it was John Hanke, who is now probably more famous for creating Pokemon Go. He was one of the founding members of Keyhole, which later became Google Earth.

    We took him and a colleague into Cederberg for a weekend where we showed him how we map remote tracks and the importance of offline navigation. Then there was a long Q&A session back at the office. Shortly after that Google's own community mapping initiative was launched, MapMaker. A more experienced Me would have made more of that visit, but we were just too happy to share our maps!
    I nearly got stuck there thinking the track to the venue was doable with a Bantam bakkie! Nice bloke!
    Mike Lauterbach

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    Yes for remote areas GPS is still king (for now), but for everything else the phone has taken over , when we went to Europe and travelled many countries the GPS is useless, maps for this part and new maps for that part and costly , bit of data like 2 gig really cheap , phone great , last time was around 3 years now as covid has stopped us travelling so its probably better now , we used a I phone 7 then and the navigation was fantastic
    Pajero 3.2 DID Gen 4 Standard for now
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    One of the problems we have with tourists traveling on our farm is that they sometimes go into places they are not supposed to, and some of those tracks ended up on the T4A maps and now we get more people going into those places even though we places locked gates on some of those routes.

    I did send some of these information through to T4A and they did react to that removing some incorrect tracks, but it seems some people still follow those old tracks, don't they get updated automatically?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bex View Post
    One of the problems we have with tourists traveling on our farm is that they sometimes go into places they are not supposed to, and some of those tracks ended up on the T4A maps and now we get more people going into those places even though we places locked gates on some of those routes.

    I did send some of these information through to T4A and they did react to that removing some incorrect tracks, but it seems some people still follow those old tracks, don't they get updated automatically?
    Map updates are manually done after purchasing the latest version. The Garmin LifeTime Maps (like the Nuvis) stilll need to be connected to a computer for updates - it's not an automated process like aps on your phone
    Mike Lauterbach

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    Muddling around the Indian Ocean. A Catamaran took a lighting strike. All electronics gone.
    A little Etrex saved their tails.
    Different applications fit where needed.
    In the city any system/app can work.
    Out in the wilds I'll take a real GPS.

  23. #59
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    Default Re: Gps sales

    Quote Originally Posted by Bex View Post
    One of the problems we have with tourists traveling on our farm is that they sometimes go into places they are not supposed to, and some of those tracks ended up on the T4A maps and now we get more people going into those places even though we places locked gates on some of those routes.

    I did send some of these information through to T4A and they did react to that removing some incorrect tracks, but it seems some people still follow those old tracks, don't they get updated automatically?
    Jors, you are welcome to send these to me directly to ensure that it is removed. But as Mike pointed out, if someone is still using an old map version then these corrections will not reach them. johann at tracks4africa dot co dot za

    But there are plenty of different maps around and I have had more than a few occasions where I had to show a land owner that our maps are not the culprit. And then you get the guy who will drive where he pleases and when caught, will blame the GPS. Hell, my partner Wouter, has blamed 'this bloody T4A' on a few occasions when caught on his bike in a forest reserve around George area. As my first boss used to say to me: Bull$#% baffles brains.
    Last edited by Groenie; 2021/06/17 at 10:59 AM. Reason: Autocorrect changed my expression
    Johann Groenewald
    Tracks4Africa

    www.tracks4africa.co.za
    For friendly support staff, call +27 (0)21 880 8660

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  25. #60
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    I've got a thing about this "navigate with the phone" advice I see crop up from time to time. I've said it before, phones these days are not media centres, cameras, GPS'es, web browsers and have so many compromises made to be as much as they can be that they suck at everything they are supposed to do - including making calls. So I don't agree that phones / tablets can do what a GPS does. Not yet at any rate.

    I'm a firm believer in the right tool for the job, and I use my GPS religiously when travelling. That said, I always download offline maps when I've travelled. It is nice travelling in cities with the thing - a lot better than my GPS city navigation at any rate. But in my experience, in places where there has been no reception the phone sometimes works for navigation. And other times, not at all. And it is that "other time" that worries me - especially when I am in places I have not been before.

    In fact, I normally even carry paper maps and a compass (the truck also actually has one standard built in above the rear-view mirror). Normally the compass and maps are only for orientating myself and looking at where I'm going when making coffee next to the road - or doing some quick research along the way or similar. But there has been at least a single occasion when my GPS failed (manhandled at the border crossing at Sendelingsdrift). My phone was so clueless it was absolutely nowhere. I was travelling on my own. The road was particularly poorly marked (if at all), and it was my first time in the Richtersveld. I had no idea where anything was. I ended up navigating with direction, time vs distance and paper maps. Sadly, I think this technique is getting virtually lost on people these days...
    Ian de Villiers
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