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  1. #1
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    Default Running a 3-phase machine on 220 via a VFD

    Looking at buying a milling machine, but all the good ones seem to have 3-phase motors.

    Can ynybody tell me whether it is possible, what is necessary and roughly how much it would cost?

    Motor power on the one I am currently looking at is 1.5 HP.
    Beat-up rat rod of a '96 Nissan Patrol that bears the evidence of many wonderful adventures (and a few stupid indiscretions).

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    Default Re: Running a 3-phase machine on 220 via a VFD

    About R2.5k. The balance of you electronics may not like the output from the vfd, unless you lock it at 50Hz.

    The other option is to convert 1 phase to 3phase using a 3 phase motor and capacitor.
    Last edited by faniedup; 2021/06/08 at 07:13 PM.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Running a 3-phase machine on 220 via a VFD

    Bought mine many years ago from Neels vd Berg below.

    Very happy with the price, operation and telephonic advice to get it operational.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    If my post insulted you, wonder where the smiley went .

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  5. #4
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    Default Re: Running a 3-phase machine on 220 via a VFD

    Cant be done - only way is proper 3-phase power supply.

    -------------------------------------

    eer BTW - Do you have a link to the milling machine.
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD - PROFFESIONAL DUMBASS
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    Default Re: Running a 3-phase machine on 220 via a VFD

    Best way is with a 220V Single Phase to 380V 3-Phase VFD - VSD.

    My favourite brand is LG. Used many on motion platforms.

    I will find you a price and post.
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD - PROFFESIONAL DUMBASS
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  8. #6
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    Default Re: Running a 3-phase machine on 220 via a VFD

    Mine is from Brazil, I think.

    This model can analyze the motor properties and optimize the controller for best torque at any speed.

    It was packaged in a rose enclosure with a transparent lid so the frequency could be read but keep the shavings out. Had to cut a hole for the mode switch, though.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The frequency control is remote, integrated with the on/off and directional control switch, with an adjustment range of 25 to 75 Hz. Apologies, only saw now how dirty it was .
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Since conversion, I have not needed to change gear sets or belts on the lathe again. But then, I only work with plastics and Al.
    If my post insulted you, wonder where the smiley went .

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    Default Re: Running a 3-phase machine on 220 via a VFD

    Thank you gentlemen

    Keith, sorry, the machine has not been advertised yet. If I decide not to take it, I will send you details.
    Last edited by Peter Connan; 2021/06/09 at 05:43 AM.
    Beat-up rat rod of a '96 Nissan Patrol that bears the evidence of many wonderful adventures (and a few stupid indiscretions).

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    Default Re: Running a 3-phase machine on 220 via a VFD

    Does this sound too good to be true
    https://www.wish.com/product/5f3f8d5..._BwE&share=web

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    Default Re: Running a 3-phase machine on 220 via a VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by JJJ View Post
    Bought mine many years ago from Neels vd Berg below...
    Thanks for this link.

    Looks like a good starting point for my long outstanding belt grinder project.
    Kobus

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    Default Re: Running a 3-phase machine on 220 via a VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by KobusDJ View Post
    Thanks for this link.

    Looks like a good starting point for my long outstanding belt grinder project.
    Looks like a scam. Way to cheap.

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    Default Re: Running a 3-phase machine on 220 via a VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by plunger View Post
    Looks like a scam. Way to cheap.
    https://cfptechnologies.co.za/

    Prices looks about average to me.
    Kobus

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    Default Re: Running a 3-phase machine on 220 via a VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by plunger View Post
    Looks like a scam. Way to cheap.
    No it is not.

    Neels operates from his house - you can physically go there and look/collect.

    His cars don't fit into his garage anymore as it is filled with a collection of immaculately restored lathes and even an NC mill. He uses it.

    When I was there last, he had just acquired an Emco 10 lathe - he already had 2 other models, but this one had powered crossfeed, if I recall correctly.

    He has demo setups in his garage which shows how the devices work. Also, if you are not electrically handy, he makes plug-and-play control units as well.

    I bought my first set of very cheap milling cutters from him. He told me up front they are not the best, being only HSS, but for the price he finds them acceptable. I'm still using some of them.

    He also sells well-priced DROs.

    Disclaimer: He is not related to me/I don't have shares in his business/he does not pay me for advertizing but he could provide exactly the correct solutions for me each time.

    Unless he has gone rogue, since......
    If my post insulted you, wonder where the smiley went .

    Johnie
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  16. #13
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    Default Re: Running a 3-phase machine on 220 via a VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by plunger View Post
    Does this sound too good to be true
    https://www.wish.com/product/5f3f8d5..._BwE&share=web
    Yes, it can be done, but be VERY careful when buying a VFD. You get many variations of them, so make sure you get the correct one.

    The one in the link above is an XSY-AT1, 220V single phase in and 220V 3-phase out. If you are running a 380V motor, you need a 220V single phase in and 380V 3-phase out. (XSY-AT4) Do not even consider going the capacitor route. An absolute waste of time and money.

    This is the one I currently have on my milling machine:

    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000899823865.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_groupList.81 48356.2.3f363aa7jABrvn

    The front panel can be removed from the unit and mounted separately elsewhere.
    Last edited by ghouwens; 2021/06/09 at 01:34 PM.
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  17. #14
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    Default Re: Running a 3-phase machine on 220 via a VFD

    Would it not be cheaper to just change the motor ?
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    Default Re: Running a 3-phase machine on 220 via a VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by JJJ View Post
    No it is not.

    Neels operates from his house - you can physically go there and look/collect.

    His cars don't fit into his garage anymore as it is filled with a collection of immaculately restored lathes and even an NC mill. He uses it.

    When I was there last, he had just acquired an Emco 10 lathe - he already had 2 other models, but this one had powered crossfeed, if I recall correctly.

    He has demo setups in his garage which shows how the devices work. Also, if you are not electrically handy, he makes plug-and-play control units as well.

    I bought my first set of very cheap milling cutters from him. He told me up front they are not the best, being only HSS, but for the price he finds them acceptable. I'm still using some of them.

    He also sells well-priced DROs.

    Disclaimer: He is not related to me/I don't have shares in his business/he does not pay me for advertizing but he could provide exactly the correct solutions for me each time.

    Unless he has gone rogue, since......
    Plunger was referring to the link to the VFD on wish.com, not to Neels!
    Guy B. Vergoes Houwens
    2014 LC76 4.5 V8

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    Default Re: Running a 3-phase machine on 220 via a VFD

    uumm 220V three phase is 380V three phase.

    The difference is in the Star and Delta wiring.

    Nice choice of inverter BTW.

    In the pic below all motor wirings are in fact 230V. Its the same motor just connected differently.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by Fluffy; 2021/06/09 at 01:40 PM.
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD - PROFFESIONAL DUMBASS
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  20. #17
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    Default Re: Running a 3-phase machine on 220 via a VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by JJJ View Post
    No it is not.

    Neels operates from his house - you can physically go there and look/collect.

    His cars don't fit into his garage anymore as it is filled with a collection of immaculately restored lathes and even an NC mill. He uses it.

    When I was there last, he had just acquired an Emco 10 lathe - he already had 2 other models, but this one had powered crossfeed, if I recall correctly.

    He has demo setups in his garage which shows how the devices work. Also, if you are not electrically handy, he makes plug-and-play control units as well.

    I bought my first set of very cheap milling cutters from him. He told me up front they are not the best, being only HSS, but for the price he finds them acceptable. I'm still using some of them.

    He also sells well-priced DROs.

    Disclaimer: He is not related to me/I don't have shares in his business/he does not pay me for advertizing but he could provide exactly the correct solutions for me each time.

    Unless he has gone rogue, since......
    You have misunderstood me. Wish has an inverter for R790 .00.Sounds too cheap.By the way his lathe is an emco super ll. Far superior to any emco vp 10 which has powered crossfeed.

  21. #18
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    Default Re: Running a 3-phase machine on 220 via a VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    uumm 220V three phase is 380V three phase.

    The difference is in the Star and Delta wiring.

    Nice choice of inverter BTW.

    In the pic below all motor wirings are in fact 230V. Its the same motor just connected differently.
    Please explain to me Fluffy how this works. Yes Im an electrically challanged plumber. Mosty little motors under 2,2kw can be changed from star to delta. But their name plate actually states that it 3 ph 240v . Ive tried running some 3 phase motors 380v motors through a vfd like my bandsaw motor and no problem. It does not have the ability to be changed from star to delta.
    But some growl and grunt but it is possible they are damaged as they are second hand. I always thought you should aim to use a power source close to what is recommended. I see they do a 220v in 380v out but thought this was done through trickery by doubling up on the power somehow.

  22. #19
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    Default Re: Running a 3-phase machine on 220 via a VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by 12richardk View Post
    Would it not be cheaper to just change the motor ?
    An lo-and-behold, you will find your single phase induction motor has a starting capacitor anyway and is rather unsuited to a milling machine with variable speed control. Ever noticed all those different diameter pulleys in a drill press.
    Cheers

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  23. #20
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    Default Re: Running a 3-phase machine on 220 via a VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by ghouwens View Post
    Yes, it can be done, but be VERY careful when buying a VFD. You get many variations of them, so make sure you get the correct one.

    The one in the link above is an XSY-AT1, 220V single phase in and 220V 3-phase out. If you are running a 380V motor, you need a 220V single phase in and 380V 3-phase out. (XSY-AT4) Do not even consider going the capacitor route. An absolute waste of time and money.

    This is the one I currently have on my milling machine:

    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000899823865.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_groupList.81 48356.2.3f363aa7jABrvn

    The front panel can be removed from the unit and mounted separately elsewhere.
    The capacitor way is called static phase converter from what I remember . The capacitor is causing a phase shift and the motor is only running on one winding. But some motors are big enough not to make much difference. I also thought they run rough and hot but get the job done.
    Now a rotary phase converter is a different kettle of fish. It can produce a very acceptable relatively clean 3 phase power. But it aint going to give you 380 v . So you still need to find a 3 phase motor that can be changed from star to delta unless you run through a transformer. The beauty of a rotary phase converter is that you buy one motor and can run your entire workshop. The more motors attached to it the cleaner the power.I have three vfds in my shop . Itg would be great just to have one unit that does all.
    Disclaimer. Take what I say with a pinch of salt. I cant overstate how electrically challenged I am .

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